HadesScorn
Warlord
Excellent lore, good way of working Apothecary into the lore. Genetic material is a bit too steam-punk for the current lore, but I can totally buy a group dedicated towards the saving of key figures in the RG.
The Raven Guard [new civ concept]
- Thread starter HadesScorn
- Start date
armyofwhispers
Chieftain
one thing I'd like to highlight, any time you destroy someones' manna node, you are permanently denying them a very valuable resourse. This should be accompanied by a permanent relations hit with that civ. I'd almost say that removing magic from the world would make all of the other civs angry with you. Everyone loves their magic too much. Come to think of it I can't imagine other civs being friendly with a civ whose whole deal is thinking everybody are idiots (except possibly the grigori).
probably so ... but denying an enemy a valuable resource could be just as benificial to their rivals as detrimental. I dont think a worldwide negative should be any more apparant that what you would get for alignment. Wouldnt people hate Hyborem more than the Ravenguard?
Maybe a special negative towards Amurites or something. But I dont think it necessary.
Maybe a special negative towards Amurites or something. But I dont think it necessary.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I'd rather see it removed temporarily, personally. Give it a decent amount of time (50 turns?), but make it regenerate.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
The Mana. Flatout removing it seems too powerful to me.
HadesScorn
Warlord
How does PermaWar sound? The elimination of a node doesn't seem like it would piss off people on the other side of the world- after all, they are just portals to realms of infinite mana. I have a hard time seeing the elves get pissed that you destroyed the Clan's Death Mana crystal...
I understand some people wanting it to be temporary, however at that point it essentially is the same as Dispel Magic. The idea is that the Raven Guard are trying to permanently cut off access to the planes of force created by Agrares.
The Amurites will have a permanent negative relations with the Raven Guard due to their ideology.
In terms of power, I assume you are saying in the hands of other players/AI? Its quite simple - never have open borders with them if they are capable of destroying the nodes. Since the unit that can do this in enemy lands is only available at the same point as Archmages, its a fairly late-game power. Being able to use it offensively, the Raven Guard are a threat once they invade, but their unit limitations should prevent "stacks of doom" from descending on your mana nodes. The intent is to allow the RG to face against enemies which are heavily reliant on mana, as they have NO access to any spells or religious powers. A variation on scorched earth, essentially.
However, if there is widespread hatred of this, I suppose a Improvement variation could work.
Blocked Node
25/50/75/100 turn duration
Replaces the existing Node
Cannot be dispelled
Reverts to Raw mana at the end and can be improved.
Thoughts?
I understand some people wanting it to be temporary, however at that point it essentially is the same as Dispel Magic. The idea is that the Raven Guard are trying to permanently cut off access to the planes of force created by Agrares.
The Amurites will have a permanent negative relations with the Raven Guard due to their ideology.
In terms of power, I assume you are saying in the hands of other players/AI? Its quite simple - never have open borders with them if they are capable of destroying the nodes. Since the unit that can do this in enemy lands is only available at the same point as Archmages, its a fairly late-game power. Being able to use it offensively, the Raven Guard are a threat once they invade, but their unit limitations should prevent "stacks of doom" from descending on your mana nodes. The intent is to allow the RG to face against enemies which are heavily reliant on mana, as they have NO access to any spells or religious powers. A variation on scorched earth, essentially.
However, if there is widespread hatred of this, I suppose a Improvement variation could work.
Blocked Node
25/50/75/100 turn duration
Replaces the existing Node
Cannot be dispelled
Reverts to Raw mana at the end and can be improved.
Thoughts?
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
The improvement idea is actually the way I'd do it. Also, you may want to give them access to basic terraform spells... Renamed if you want, but there are
perfectly mundane methods of improving terrain.
perfectly mundane methods of improving terrain.
HadesScorn
Warlord
The plan for improving terrain was to borrow from the ole Civ 2 and have an improved worker model that could cast vitalize with a delay, available at an appropriate part during the Engineering line - however, I'd like to see this as a unit available to all civs, so that one doesn't need nature mana and priests/mages in order to improve terrain. Perhaps blocked from Clan and Doviello?
With the improved workers, should they unlock all at the same point, or unlock certain things at certain techs? For instance, the tech that allows farms without irrigation could turn deserts into plains, while the tech towards the end of the engineering line would allow plains/tundra to grassland. Perhaps a skill at blasting powder to turn mountains into hills and hills into plains [possibly consuming the unit]? Thoughts?
I've updated the main post with some suggestions from this thread. Feedback welcome.
With the improved workers, should they unlock all at the same point, or unlock certain things at certain techs? For instance, the tech that allows farms without irrigation could turn deserts into plains, while the tech towards the end of the engineering line would allow plains/tundra to grassland. Perhaps a skill at blasting powder to turn mountains into hills and hills into plains [possibly consuming the unit]? Thoughts?
I've updated the main post with some suggestions from this thread. Feedback welcome.
WarKirby
Arty person
I like this idea, but why block those two civs?
I think something like this, should be a very long build. Like 40 turn production time for one worker, so that using a team of workers would be necessary to do it in a reasonable time. And so that magical methods would still be generally faster and superior.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Would be possible with build orders as well, so the AI could understand it somewhat... Make an 'onbuild' check in python. Not sure if it requires an improvement to actually be built or if you can use a blank build order... If it does, it should be possible to remake the original improvement, although upgrade times would reset.
armyofwhispers
Chieftain
I agree that the improvement is the way to go, and perhaps a world-wide relation hit is a little much for blocking a node, but a relations hit with the person you block is certainly reasonable.
Edit: especially amurite
Edit: especially amurite
HadesScorn
Warlord
Warkirby- It was off the top of my head. Something about how those two civs don't really buy into much that isn't smashy or shiny. 
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
I think perma-war is sufficient enough that the immortality can save the Arch-Historian.
I assume these great people are spawned in the capital? If not it can be quite tricky to get use of them before they get killed.
I assume these great people are spawned in the capital? If not it can be quite tricky to get use of them before they get killed.
HadesScorn
Warlord
Yes, if at all possible they will spawn there. However, if the coding does not allow, the declaration of War *should* push them into your cultural borders.
xxHammerxx
rage monkey
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
- Messages
- 117
I do think that the RavenGuard should have someone with a technique similar to blinding light though. Maybe flash grenade?
It would be hard for Raven Guard armies to not be completely annihilated on the field otherwise.
It would be hard for Raven Guard armies to not be completely annihilated on the field otherwise.
HadesScorn
Warlord
Whew! Just finished a month long session of TRADOC, so I finally have some days off to devote to this.
Go Latin! Looking for someone who can insert the following phrases into the heraldic banner. "NE PENITEBO" "NE PAREBO" "NE APORIOBO"
Loosely: I shall not repent, I shall not submit, I shall not waver"
Some thoughts - as the Raven Guard Champion is currently the UU replacing the Immortal, should they gain the Immortal Promotion permanently, or after they kill a disciple/mage unit ala Losha?
Some more lore posted this morning, I'll update this post with references as it goes up.
Go Latin! Looking for someone who can insert the following phrases into the heraldic banner. "NE PENITEBO" "NE PAREBO" "NE APORIOBO"
Loosely: I shall not repent, I shall not submit, I shall not waver"
Some thoughts - as the Raven Guard Champion is currently the UU replacing the Immortal, should they gain the Immortal Promotion permanently, or after they kill a disciple/mage unit ala Losha?
Some more lore posted this morning, I'll update this post with references as it goes up.
HadesScorn
Warlord
Sounds right to me, the only issue is that there are going to be more than 4 available. With the current limit of 1 per city, you could easily have 8 running around. If fully immortal, this would be difficult to overcome.
Lore has been updated with two new pieces on the first page.
Lore has been updated with two new pieces on the first page.
