The Reintroduction of Eras, FFH2 Style.

[Mailbox]

About Dwarven Mines in mountains, the easiest way to do it would be to have a ritual or building that is only available when there are peaks in the city's radius and on completion builds one random "Mountain Hall" improvement on a peak.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

i miss the deep mines from the CtP-series that could be improved over time.

Hrm I don't remember deep mines in CTP at all... but that led me to think about the deep mines (I forget what they're called) in SMAC... that was interesting because you had to balance the increased shield production with increased fungus growth.

It could be neat to have an improvement that did the same thing... more production but randomly you'd have deep underground dwelling monsters come out and attack the surface...

 

[QES]

About Dwarven Mines in mountains, the easiest way to do it would be to have a ritual or building that is only available when there are peaks in the city's radius and on completion builds one random "Mountain Hall" improvement on a peak.

I REALLY like this idea.

-Qes

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

eh, I like Mailbox's idea, it could work fine

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

I third the coolness of Mailbox's idea

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I implemented Mailbox's idea (which was my idea first) almost whole year ago, but then decided that I'd rather have units actually build them. (My hard drive broke since then, so I don't still have the code, but it shouldn't be too hard to do.)

My version didn't create a new type of improvement, but a normal mine or quarry plus a change to discover a mineral resource, and/or have the peaks base yields increased. (For some reason I couldn't get the python code to place a road on the tile, but changing peaks from bWater 1 to 0 and letting dwarven workers move impassible make roads buildable. The SDK still has blocks that prevent them from building any improvements.) I did it though a UB, but a repeatable ritual would have been much better.

 

[Mailbox]

Just use the ritual to place a improvement for yield (leaving the base mountain yieldless) and then a road, and give that improvement a small chance of discovering resources. I'd also give it to Arete (tech) and Blasting Powder so that all civilizations could eventually utilize it.

Which reminds me, I think the resource discovery code or display is amiss because the odds seem a lot lower (although earth mana is terribly powerful with the resource discovery increase). I think water and nature mana should increase the chance of discovering resources for my modmod.

 

[QES]

I'll rarely do modmods. And I throw things out there, because once and a while things stick to the base-mod.

Since they're on "ice" now - i doubt it'll change much. BUt one can always hope.
-Qes

 

[orangelex44]

Yeah... one can always hope. My secret dreams are about the Bannor. They just seem so DULL when compared to some of the other civs. I mean, they don't even have a unique unit!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

They aren't on Ice yet. The next version is still shadow.

 

[QES]

I thought we're in shadow.
-Qes

 

[zup]

Promotions cannot effect a units build orders. There are several C++ blocks preventing building improvements in Peaks (even for workers that can move impassible), but I don't think they would be all that hard to remove. I don't think improvements can grant GPP. Invisibility only working on specific improvements/routes would be nice, but the ability does not yet exist. I don't think the graphics engine has the ability to let us add anything like an "inverted mountain," and even the best DLL modder couldn't change that.

Does this mean we are stuck with elevation levels of peak/hills/plain/ocean? I have been waiting for some wizard to at least create something between hills and peak. I really want more variation in mountain ranges.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You can't really even make new terrains of the same elevations as hills and peaks, iirc. They are pretty much hardcoded, and will actually work fine even if they are removed from the xml.

It is possible to add features or improvements that look like terrains of different heights.

 

[Shadius]

I simply love the idea of amping up the exploration aspect of FFH. Adding a few ideas to the pile:

Large patches of Wastelands/Badlands that remain in barbarian hands until the endgame. Littered with the ruins of a civilization from the Age of Magic, before an unnatural calamity turned green lands to lifeless plains of rock and dirt. Don't pose a problem to Infernals.

Ice plots representing permafrost and glaciers, much like they do now. Could be home a whole host of things: madmen who believe the Age of Ice never passed, Frost Giants, the last survivors of those Illian-aligned goblinoids from the AoI scenario... Immediately explorable by Illians.

Thickets of Deep Woods, home to woodland creatures both malicious and... well, neutral, I suppose. These served as rare havens for once far more comon magical creatures during the Age of Ice. Generates Ents, Fyrdwells, etc, and could be the catalyst for a whole host of events if they lay within your borders. Negotiating with its denizens might get you some neat units or unique resources - angering them... not so much. Easier to deal with if you're Ljosalfar/Svartalfar or following the Fellowship.

The Depths - the deepest of ocean trenches, where it is said the Overlords hold their council. Simple sailing trough these waters is known to have driven men mad. Spawns krakens. Can be the source of 'Visions' for civs following the Overlords.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Actually, Shadius has an idea there... some territory that can never be within cultural borders would be interesting. Like the glaciers of the poles or the deepest deserts or wastelands... then it would be possible to have barbarians spawn at all times.

 

[Blackmantle]

Wait for 0.34 when you start to see explorable lairs / monsters spawning all over the place.

No need for forced wildlands shoveld down everones gullet when enforced wildlands do so well.
More "Impassable Terrain" (druids / heralds and flying units don't take that label all so seriously anyways.) might be nice but a hero-wraith / stoneskin ogre or minotaur is so much more scary than that... Not to mention the various city-raider3 elementals on campaign.

And so much more fun...

Nothing hinders expansion so well as a big chunk of muscle wielding a 'big stick with a nail in it' .



Really Marnok did create something greath here which accomplishes all depicted here and so much more (Master of Magic-fans are especially likely to rejoyce ).
(And i reckon it could still be disabled by opting to turn off lairs which are a minor issue in the current versions anyways. Should you find it to hard to cope with all the monsters around. Which is very much possible for some players.)

If Lairs on Peaks and in Ocean will be implemented (which at least for oceans seems not all that unlikely) monsters should still spawn very late into the game allright. Perhaps not till Turn 600 but monsters till turn 400 seems still enough entertainment for 95 games out of 100.

 

[fish_sticks]

When play Final Frontier, there are certain types of terrain that drain power from some of your units. I would think that unit damage, coupled with the single tile movement, would detract people from moving across mountains unless it is really necessary. In terms of realism this would make some sense because going through mountains can be a dangerous business. Just as an example you could have a X% change of losing *ANY* unit (maybe only if it doesn't have the hero promotion to avoid anger) and then a random span of damage per tile.

So if you assume that X above was 7% then crossing a span of three mountain may lead to:
First Tile: 100 units * 93% = 93 units
Second Tile: 93 units * 93% * 80% (2xRandomDamage was > 100%) = 70 units
Third Tile: 70 units * 93% * 60% (3xRandomDamage was > 100%) = 40 units

Someone could probably weight appropriately but if done correctly, crossing more then one or two mountains with units would have to be important and you would stand to lose a decent number of units.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Terrains can't deal damage. Features can. (Well, you could add code allowing other terrains to do damage, but that could be very processor intensive.)

Having Flames and maybe Jungles cause damage would make more sense anyway. I would prefer it be changed to deal Fire and Poison damage though.

 

[Willgar]

Actually, Shadius has an idea there... some territory that can never be within cultural borders would be interesting. Like the glaciers of the poles or the deepest deserts or wastelands... then it would be possible to have barbarians spawn at all times.

Really like this idea - not enjoying the mad "gold rush" to claim every last scrap of land that marks every game versus the AI - maybe as a modmod or game option would be nice