The Rise and Fall of the Mughal Empire

[El Justo]

I don't even know what those are! As you know JO, I am a real techno dunce. The process which resulted in the look is as follows:

I have a massive collection of art from this period anyway. I buy it IRL for my home and surf the web for it a lot also. So I simply went through all the pics I had and found that many were relevant to the techs/wonders/improvements etc. I simply named the pics after whatever and sent them all to Luddi, with a simply message: "Make it so!" and he always did and I'm very grateful to him for that.

I hope this answers your question?

heh...the pcx files are the pics that appear in-game for the techs, splashes, units, etc.

ie Rifleman_small.pcx, Rifleman_large.pcx, Kama_Sutra.pcx

 

[The Last Conformist]

OK, started up a game.

First, a big thumbs up for the 'Pedia! Seems to be on a level with Plotinus's masterpiece in Rood & Dragon.

Then a bit of criticism: Half or so of Mughal cities are starving at the scenario's start. This is annoying without serving any obvious purpose.

Also, I'm getting weird glitches with extra, nonsensical, options in popups. Can't say yet if this is a problem on my our your side.

Edit: Changing the barbarian names to something appropriate for India would give a bit of extra flavour for little extra work.

 

[Rambuchan]

Starvation: Yes all civs experience this at the start. I took a risk with this. My options were:

a) Fully develop big cities, with irrigation etc - no good, nothing to do for the rest of the game.

b) Have small cities with little or development - no good because these cities were pretty damn big!

c) Or have big cities, with little development - this is what I went for.

You can pop settlers out to expand. It's closer historically. There was starvation at those times. And you are also made to embark on big irrigation programmes much like the rulers of the time did.

 

[Rambuchan]

Barbarians: I simply didn't know how to change these names. I saw it as a minor thing really anyway.

PCX Files: Oh thanks El J!

 

[The Last Conformist]

You can pop settlers out to expand. It's closer historically. There was starvation at those times. And you are also made to embark on big irrigation programmes much like the rulers of the time did.

The problem is, the excess population dies off immediately, so popping settlers doesn't make any difference.

Barbarian names are changed by changing the tribe names in the city list for "A Barbarian Kingdom" under the Civilizations tab. The total number of entries shouldn't be changed.

 

[Rambuchan]

OK well I've noted both those TLC. Thanks. I'd be interested to get a balance of opinion on the starvation issue, as it was tough deciding, given the options on hand.

Back in a few hours to answer any more questions folks have.

 

[The Last Conformist]

What black magic have you worked? the Safavids are using cannon to besiege Jaipur!

Edit: The Warrior 'pedia says the unit is only available to the Europeans, but in fact it's available to everyone.

Edit2: Allowing the Mughals to build Heroic Cavalry doesn't seem to make sense, since they can build the superior Mughal Cavalry for less shields.

Edit3:The little glitches and oddities I've mentioned nonwithstanding, the scen plays quite well this far; no crashes and no obvious imbalances or major bugs. I've played to the mid-16th as the Mughals now, conquering Rajputana (except Jodhpur, which was snatched by the Persians), and the western bits of the Ahmadnagaris, incl Surat. The other civs haven't done much yet except filling out the empty bits on the map. In the department for bizarrerie, the Bijapuris are sending alot of Bowmen into Tibet; don't ask me why, since they don't seem to be attacking the Nepalese.

The Europeans are very keen to buy iron, which feels somewhat odd. Perhaps put it at their capitals.

 

[Rambuchan]

What black magic have you worked? the Safavids are using cannon to besiege Jaipur!

What do you mean?

Edit: The Warrior 'pedia says the unit is only available to the Europeans, but in fact it's available to everyone.

Thanks for spotting that warrior Pedia entry.

Edit2: Allowing the Mughals to build Heroic Cavalry doesn't seem to make sense, since they can build the superior Mughal Cavalry for less shields.

That would be due to a late upgrading of the stats for the Mughal UU. It used to be inferior to the Heroic Cavalry, but I figured the Mughal Cavalry was pretty heroic . I guess that could be another note for an upgradeed Biq.

Edit3:The little glitches and oddities I've mentioned nonwithstanding, the scen plays quite well this far; no crashes and no obvious imbalances or major bugs.

Glad to start hearing some reports of other people's games.

I've played to the mid-16th as the Mughals now, conquering Rajputana (except Jodhpur, which was snatched by the Persians), and the western bits of the Ahmadnagaris, incl Surat. The other civs haven't done much yet except filling out the empty bits on the map.

As the Mughals you can indeed go on a merry conquering spree. There are other civs which you can do that with too. Although maybe not so soon. Have you encountered / exploited the 8 city elimination in your conquests yet? Oh and there is some blatant aggression that seems to crop up every game. So don't sit too cosy. You've taken out one blatant aggressor but there are others who get all uppity all of a sudden.

In the department for bizarrerie, the Bijapuris are sending alot of Bowmen into Tibet; don't ask me why, since they don't seem to be attacking the Nepalese.

Yes the other civs seem to be obsessed with barbarians, which is why they will cross the subcontinent and / or mountain range to bash one lousy warrior. Any tips on getting round this, without losing the VPs, would be appreciated.

The Europeans are very keen to buy iron, which feels somewhat odd. Perhaps put it at their capitals.

Good point about the iron. There is a rationale behind it. In one of the Pedia entries I speak of Europeans' first contacts with these civs. They were looked down upon by the Mughals and other Indians and their goods were not particularly desirable. In fact it was the Europeans craved the Indian goods. By giving the Euro Companies all the resources, it didn't seem quite right. They needed to access local supplies in order to establish bases in India. I guess this is why it plays like that. Not a major thing I thought, because the Euros are endowed with some heavy accumulative support to come through more strongly in the late game. Anyway, I gave easy salt peter for the trading companies with the suggestion you give, so if you think it's really that weird it is easily changed. Perhaps playing with one of the Euro Companies may make more sense of this situation.

Thanks for the feedback overall TLC. Much appreciated. I thought I would get round to playing TCW after all this but it seems I will be distracted with this scen for some time to come still. Hope you enjoy getting stabbed in the back by some civ soon.

 

[LouLong]

Haven't played it yet but I have checked the biq a little and saw some other comments or pictures here.

Apparently you have done a lot of work on the pedia which is rare. Pedia work is tedious but it makes a big difference in scenario quality so congratulations.

Congratulations also for choosing such a theme. Always nice to see a not WW2 scenario ! An historical scenario not focusing on Europe and not focusing on the XXth century is rare ... therefore expensive (lol).

On the other hand I don't understand some city placement but I might while playing it and I don't understand your reasons for giving so little culture to cities and for making them starve.

Oh ! I almost forgot ! Great choice of map (lol).

Probably more later...

 

[The Last Conformist]

What do you mean?

The AI typically fails to make any offensive use of artillery pieces, but this time the Persians brought along a Cannon and used it to pound on the defenses of Jaipur while attacking with Mamelukes. It was an unexpected show of competence from the AI (which, ironically, didn't gain it anything, since I was attacking the city from the other side, and got in first).

Have you encountered / exploited the 8 city elimination in your conquests yet?

Nope. The Rajputs never had eight cities, and no other civ has lost more than three cities yet.

 

[Rambuchan]

Haven't played it yet but I have checked the biq a little and saw some other comments or pictures here.

Apparently you have done a lot of work on the pedia which is rare. Pedia work is tedious but it makes a big difference in scenario quality so congratulations.

Yes it makes a big difference. I have played many scens and I never understand why Pedia work cannot be done. It's very irritating when you don't know what the damn unit will do for you. Doing Pedia work really informs you and helps you organise the game well. Give it a good historical basis and get everything in line. I had all the Pedia entries written up months ago from other writing for other things. It's well worth it and I hope you manage to find all the little funnies and gems of historical detail tucked away in the unlikely corners.

Congratulations also for choosing such a theme. Always nice to see a not WW2 scenario ! An historical scenario not focusing on Europe and not focusing on the XXth century is rare ... therefore expensive (lol).

This theme is fascinating. I have grown up visiting many of these cities and with hearing stories of these guys. It was quite a thing being able to bring them to life. It's also a good period because there is plenty of military experimentation going on at the time. All kinds of bizarre weapons and weird military cults. Europeans history is also very insular in its recordings and 'stories'. You get a far more expansive and connected sense of the world from reading non-European history (IN GENERAL). I hope this experience comes across in playing the scen.

On the other hand I don't understand some city placement but I might while playing it and I don't understand your reasons for giving so little culture to cities and for making them starve.

City placements were compromises as I mentioned. Only slight ones. I very much take the view that it is more fun to have a strategically placed city in game, than it is to have one placed totally accurate to history. I've aimed to give you the right feel of pressures and strategic dilemmas. This is over getting each city bang on the right tile.

Oh ! I almost forgot ! Great choice of map (lol).

Probably more later...

Yeah if you know who did it, give them a medal

But seriously, I think you will appreciate how the different UUs of the different kingdoms deal with the varied terrain on your map. You really do need different types of military to conquer the different regions.

 

[Rambuchan]

The AI typically fails to make any offensive use of artillery pieces, but this time the Persians brought along a Cannon and used it to pound on the defenses of Jaipur while attacking with Mamelukes. It was an unexpected show of competence from the AI (which, ironically, didn't gain it anything, since I was attacking the city from the other side, and got in first).

Perhaps the heavy leaning on artillery in this game has caused this? I actually realised but whoever it is who wrote the 'how to use artillery' article in the war academy would be mighty pleased with this scenario. It's mad for artillery! (Euros get the best of it)

Nope. The Rajputs never had eight cities, and no other civ has lost more than three cities yet.

Oh it will come, it will come. Your empire is still but a fledgling one.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Ok I played a few turns, great stuff. Only glitch is that my cities turn magenta. The four city tiles, that is.

 

[El Justo]

Ok I played a few turns, great stuff. Only glitch is that my cities turn magenta. The four city tiles, that is.

iirc, that's a city pcx sheet problem.

Ram, do you have customized city gfx in for this scenario?

 

[Rambuchan]

Thanks for the look in El J. To answer your question: No. We have used the standard Civ3 city graphics as per the culture groups.

Persians = Middle Eastern city graphics
Indian = Asian
European = same
Local = American I think

We really didn't bother too much with the city graphics. That can come later.

Suffice to say, I don't know why Bozo is having that problem. Sounds like a small one though. Let's hope the technical genius on the team, Luddi, will shed some light on the matter.

So who were you playing as Bozo? What did you do and how did you get on?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Most of the unit gfx are fitting enough, but the Templar as Rajput Resistor is a bit jarring - those big crosses on the shields just don't feel right!

 

[Rambuchan]

If you can recommend something else then we can certainly include it in an upgrade.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'll think about it.

Oct. 1558, and my troops finally captured Ahmadnagar, after killing an entirely unreasonable number of defenders (my Army accounted for 12 defenders alone!). The next step, of course, is eliminating the Ahmadnagaris completely, then evil plots against the Bijapuris and Vijayanagara await ...

 

[Rambuchan]

You must now have:

a) An admirable VP lead.
b) Control of some Opium!

Have you considered a victory condition you are going for yet?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Oct. 1561, Ahmadanagar eliminated.

Yup, I've got 15,270 VPs, whereas my closest rival, the Safavids, have 5970. I'm planning for a VP victory.

The Europeans don't seem to be doing much.