The Rites of Oghma crapshoot

[Inkling]

with genesis you are gauranteed to have your territory altered in a specific way, with natures revolt you know the barbarians are gonna go all feral. blood of the pheonix, etc, etc. You are getting some benefit, and generally know the outcome, okay sam hain can be a little random but still, atleast part of the effect is desireable and gauranteed, you are going to get something you want. But Rites of Oghma(spelling) is a complete crapshoot.

In my current game i am playing well past the point of victory just to screw around. i run rites of oghma, i get about 7 new nodes in my territory, i crash before i can save, so restart, reload and end turn again(new seed on reload. i get 3 nodes this time.

i own atleast 1/2 the land(like i siad, i basically won a long time ago), and of all the nodes spawned, i get 3. i've played where i didn't get any after completeing it. its bad enough that those nodes may require i wipe out a fully developed town, or i might get a bunch popping up in my farmland but that i can build this ritual and potentially get absolutely nothing for the effort is just wrong in my oppinion. There needs to be some gauranteed benefit solely for the person who puts for the effort to create it. what that should be, i don't know, but something. The dumb luck way it operates now is just too frustrating.

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Hmm, maybe a meta-mana producing wonder? or All Adepts start with Metamagic 2?

 

[WarKirby]

I don't see any problem with how it works now.

I'd just save the turn before you complete it, and reload until I get desireable results.

 

[Inkling]

I don't see any problem with how it works now.

I'd just save the turn before you complete it, and reload until I get desireable results.

think multiplayer. not too mention reloading gets pretty old given how random this thing can be.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

think multiplayer.

Cool oxymoron bro

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

There are really easy ways to get the mana you need in the game, so I haven't had issues with this one. BUT its a gamble that I can do without. The price for the results just isn't there. The only time I build this is when I have a city that pretty much has built every thing it has to offer, or a city that I am trying to use for great prophet wonders only. I would only suggest nerfing the cost downward.

 

[WarKirby]

I agree it does cost a bit much

 

[westamastaflash]

It's so much easier to vassalize than to build the rites.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

think multiplayer..

heh thats funny, but now that I think about it; I did have this uncle (long sense past away) who was severely schizophrenic. He would walk the halls and roads all day talking to a litany of people, demons, angles, god, etc. I bet a good play by email (hot seat?) game of FFH would be easy for him. And yes at times he though he was any or all of them...

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

It's so much easier to vassalize than to build the rites.

I am NOT taking the bait on that comment

 

[Verily]

I don't recall whether this was changed, but at one point Rites of Oghma only created new nodes on unimproved territory. So human players, who were presumably diligent about improvements, were unlikely to get very many nodes. I do remember something about changing that, though, so maybe it's less disappointing now. I haven't used Rites of Oghma in forever.

 

[Methuselah]

I don't recall whether this was changed, but at one point Rites of Oghma only created new nodes on unimproved territory. So human players, who were presumably diligent about improvements, were unlikely to get very many nodes. I do remember something about changing that, though, so maybe it's less disappointing now. I haven't used Rites of Oghma in forever.

They can spawn under improvements. The amount spawned is based on map size:

Duel: 4
Tiny: 5
Small: 6
Large: 8
Huge: 10

 

[Verily]

They can spawn under improvements. The amount spawned is based on map size:

Duel: 4
Tiny: 5
Small: 6
Large: 8
Huge: 10

I was thinking about the number of nodes spawning in your territory (so a human controlling half the globe might only get 2 of 10 nodes on a Huge map). But, if they can spawn under improvements now, it shouldn't be a big deal. On Multiplayer, different story. But you shouldn't be wasting your time with Rites of Oghma in Multiplayer anyway.

 

[Nor'easter]

I know I've mentioned this in balance threads for previous versions of FfH, because I've had the same problem as the OP -- having by far the largest territory and having few or sometimes NO mana nodes appear in my lands. I definitely agree that such a huge investment of hammers and time should yield more of a reward.

The ritual has stayed the same for a long time now, so it seems as if the team is happy with it as is.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

If anything it feels to me like bloat that should be cut. It was added before metamagic, presumably as a way to aid tower victories. now that we have metamagic, who'd miss rites of oghma?

 

[kumquatelvis]

I've had times when no nodes spawned on my entire continent.

 

[Inkling]

I was thinking about the number of nodes spawning in your territory (so a human controlling half the globe might only get 2 of 10 nodes on a Huge map). But, if they can spawn under improvements now, it shouldn't be a big deal. On Multiplayer, different story. But you shouldn't be wasting your time with Rites of Oghma in Multiplayer anyway.

I'm kinda hoping to see it elevated to a point where it is worth building in multiplayer, where its not a waste. otherwise, whats the point of its existence if its only going to built when you've already won the game.

whats worse than few to none spawning in your borders, is seeing them spawn on one tile islands or in areas where noone can use them, or almost as bad, someplace you can access but only if you build what will be a worthless city(a distant two tile island).

...
The ritual has stayed the same for a long time now, so it seems as if the team is happy with it as is.

I think its more a matter of noone really complains about it, and most don't seem to care. Squeeky wheel gets the greasing...

If anything it feels to me like bloat that should be cut. It was added before metamagic, presumably as a way to aid tower victories. now that we have metamagic, who'd miss rites of oghma?

i always kinda saw it as a powerhouse ritual for the amurites, that is if it worked. But given the cumulative bonuses that can be gained from multiple mana sources, it would still be a useful ritual for other civs if you could gaurantee you'd benefit from building it. 5 percent less maintenance costs for large or expensive empires, health bonuses, starting levels for mages, affinity bonuses for summoners. And you can't always vassal the mana types you want, and sometimes someone else takes them out before you can vassal them.

 

[Nor'easter]

I think its more a matter of noone really complains about it, and most don't seem to care. Squeeky wheel gets the greasing...

Well, I'VE complained about it before, but I guess that wasn't enough. I guess most players don't bother building it, given the uncertain return on the investment, so people don't feel the need to complain about a feature they seldom if ever use.

 

[Ranos]

It should either work like Genesis and only give the casting empire new Mana (based on map size or number of cities in the empire or both) or it should guarantee that a certain number of those mana will appear inside your borders.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd think I prefer making it have no limit on how often it can be used.