The Rood and the Dragon - the Anglo-Saxon scenario

Three cheers for Plotinus Magnus!

This is a very nice update and well worth the wait. The nice thing about games from Plotinus is that they are all very well tested before he puts them out; this revision appears to be bugless. You can also learn a lot of history from reading the civilopedia.

Two new non-playable civs. One of them is Rheged. The other one I will leave as a surprise. More to follow after I finish my first game.
 
7ronin said:
this revision appears to be bugless.
Click to expand...

Don't say that - you'll jinx it!

Hope you like it, anyway. I'll put some pictures up on the first page to replace the old ones, once I've got them together.
 
Plotinus said:
Armies are now generated directly from combat, rather than being converted from military leaders. This means the AI will use armies.
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It also means, IIUC, that a civ can never have more than one Army. Intended?

(Incidentally, it resembles a rule from Britannia, where each nation can have a "major army" that's allowed to ignore normal stacking limits.)

Anyway, I have to give this version a try ... expect feedback!
 
Yes indeed, as you know it means that you can have only one army in action at a time. Personally I think this is actually something of a bonus, especially in a scenario as opposed to an epic game. Armies are so powerful that I think it's helpful to limit them to only one per player at a time. This is especially so when the standard method of army generation means that the AI never has them at all. When the human player gets two armies in a scenario like this, it's just a matter of time and there's no challenge any more.

I look forward to the expert feedback!
 
Plotinus said:
Yes indeed, as you know it means that you can have only one army in action at a time. Personally I think this is actually something of a bonus, especially in a scenario as opposed to an epic game. Armies are so powerful that I think it's helpful to limit them to only one per player at a time. This is especially so when the standard method of army generation means that the AI never has them at all. When the human player gets two armies in a scenario like this, it's just a matter of time and there's no challenge any more.

I look forward to the expert feedback!
Click to expand...

I once played a scenario with (dyp mod) I believe, in which , somehow I got the ai to build multiple armies. I had modded the army load limit to 10 and remember the ai had at least 5 of these modded armies against me at one point which made for a very interesting game.I cant remember how it was done except that armies were produced for the ai from wonders (multiple ones flagged), I think?

Im going to scan some old files to see if I can find this. Anyway , Im going to try to download this one soon, having loved the Empires of Africa you did.....congrats and thx....
 
Wow, five ten-unit armies coming at you at once? Even the idiotic AI couldn't lose with that lot. I wonder how they managed that. Still, thanks for the comments on the other scenario, and all comments on this one are gratefully received too...

7ronin, should I ever make a Tudor scenario, I think we can rely upon there being a Master of the Stool specialist. Quite what effect he will have - and what the graphic would look like - I shall have to consider carefully!
 
OK, started up a game as Northumbria.

Can't say I'm very impressed with some changes to the interface - the diplo being sometimes hard to read due to unnecessarily dark background patterns is my chief complaint here. I don't like the new tech screens either, but that, of course, is purely a question of taste.

More materially, it seems slower than the old version - due to the extra civs, I'd assume. Also, some unit names and graphics seem shifted for no apparent reason beyond confusing me. The plentitude of new custom graphics is however impressive (and giving me bad conscience wrt to the Maya scen).

The Beowulf wonder claims to increase the appearance of Leaders - that should of Armies, I guess?

I'll comment more on gameplay when I've played some more turns.

Edit: Shoving irrigation that far into the tech tree is sure to have some major effects!
 
Yup, no more irrigating from the word go. Although I found that it doesn't make a vast amount of difference, because in the first half of the game mining is more important anyway. Most cities just don't need to become huge and sprawling early on.

You're right about Beowulf. Stupid mistake! Well, I think it's obvious what it means.

I like Traianus' interface but I agree that it can be hard to read - I actually altered it myself before using it to make it a bit easier. I think it's OK now.

Yes, the game does seem a little slower at the start, although I've found that it speeds up a little after a bit. I'm not sure why this is.

Most of the graphic/name changes were just intended to make it a bit more logical. It made sense, for example, to have Ceorls coming near the start and Ealdormen near the end, since the latter were more powerful. It also made more sense to have Franciscamen right at the start, because they were early, and Athelings a little later - especially as the unit in the Atheling's current position stays in play for quite a while, and I thought it seemed more typically Anglo-Saxon in looks. Plus it made sense to have the two defensive-bombard units (Franciscaman and Wizard) not coinciding. I think the various unit lines get suitably more advanced looking as it goes on now.
 
Plotinus said:
I like Traianus' interface but I agree that it can be hard to read - I actually altered it myself before using it to make it a bit easier. I think it's OK now.
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd lose the ornamentation from the "assets" boxes althogether. In fact, I might fire up a gfx app and do just that. :)

Edit: I suppose there's also a good reason for Aeler of Deira sounding like Treebeard? :crazyeye:
 
Great news on the update! I've just set the pc to download both the updated scenario and the music whilst I pop off to the pub for a well earned pint ;) . I'm looking forward to playing it; other than my own mod, it's the one I've played the most. I've not won it yet!!

Would you be interested in doing a similar scenario based much earlier (Iceni talk again I'm afraid), but having the Romans invade in a similar way to the Vikings in "Rood?"
 
The Last Conformist said:
@dread: Sure that wasn't in PTW?
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Actually it was in PTW--I guess they broke the massive army builds in conquests? What was the exact change that did it? I miss that old ai 10+ unit armies on the field.
 
dreadknought said:
Actually it was in PTW--I guess they broke the massive army builds in conquests? What was the exact change that did it? I miss that old ai 10+ unit armies on the field.
Click to expand...
They broke armies, massive or not, in C3C.

Basically, there are two problems: First, when they rejigged leaders to allow SGLs, they somehow managed to make the AI never use MGLs to build arimes. Second, a problem in Vanilla was that the AI would fill an army with, say, two Cav and one Inf, thus wasting the mobility of the Cav; this was solved in some patch or other by making the AI never load a unit slower than the ones already in an army into it. When C3C added a bonus move to units in armies, the result is that the AI won't load, say, a Knight into an army already having a Knight in it, since it thinks it would slow the army down from three moves to two.
 
The link for Road and dragon doesnt seem to work :( is there an alternetive i can use please?
 
The Last Conformist said:
They broke armies, massive or not, in C3C.

Basically, there are two problems: First, when they rejigged leaders to allow SGLs, they somehow managed to make the AI never use MGLs to build arimes. Second, a problem in Vanilla was that the AI would fill an army with, say, two Cav and one Inf, thus wasting the mobility of the Cav; this was solved in some patch or other by making the AI never load a unit slower than the ones already in an army into it. When C3C added a bonus move to units in armies, the result is that the AI won't load, say, a Knight into an army already having a Knight in it, since it thinks it would slow the army down from three moves to two.
Click to expand...

Wow, they should have fixed that, didnt realise the exact mechanics there, greatly appreciate that info from you. I guess Ill have to go back and play PTW for the army exp. since I doubt they will fix this.
 
The download's in the second post, where it says "The download is here." However, I had an interrupted download and the scenario is currently unavailable from 3ddownloads. I'm sure Plotinus will sort it out soon, though ;) .
 
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