The Siege of Berlin 1260 AD

Provolution

Sage of Quatronia
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THE SIEGE OF BERLIN 1260 AD

May 5, 1260 AD, Kublai Khan became the ruler of the Mongol Empire, which happens to be the exact year our new government come into office, with a cruel coincidence of real world and gameworld dynamics.

I am writing about the Siege of Berlin, but we need to understand the entire picture of this political minefield the "War on Germany Party" threw us into.



THE TRIPLE BORDER

The Triple Border Region is a crossroads of cultures and the most militarized and warridden part of our continent.

The Yasutan Empire

With the recent conquests of Roman occupied Munich, which once belonged to Germany, and the ethnically Roman Cumae, Yasutan is about to attain a Northern Province with a siege of Berlin.

The Roman Empire

With the recent peace with Rome, set to last for at least 7 more turns and with all the forces set to enforce the peace besieging Berlin, the Romans still challenge the recently occupied city with an immense cultural shock and encircling Roman War Chariots. The Roman desert is vast, and signals that the rest of the Roman Empire may indeed be costly.


The German Empire

The Mongol ambush of peaceful Germany came quick, some would say too quick after the conquest of Cumae, battered troops, bruised, scattered and some units almost entirely wiped out, still they pressed onto the German capital. Pressing through the Autoburgerwald, the German forest preceding the capital, the home of the Roman Necropolis of the many Roman legionnaires stopped dead by expert German longbowmen, yellowed bones in vast tracts of the forest dotted with rusty arrowheads. The autopsies speak the same language, German city defenders are expert longbowmen, surviving many assaults. Occupied Munich is still being Mongolized, and we jump for the biggest prize of them all.

SiegeofBerlin.JPG


THE INTENDED MAIN STRATEGY

As we can see from the map, I marked off the following landmarks for ease of reference in strategy discussions.

The Rubicon-Rhine River is the main "Shicksalsgebiet" or "Fate District". The crossing of this river meant in both instances war, first for Roman Cumae, then Berlin.

The Autoburgerwald is the forest where the Germans fight off and kill off inwaders coming in from the west, in such a fashion that the invaders are almost automatically killed, their death sentence written in their foreheads and signed with a German arrowhead. The Expert German longbowmen weep when they pluck feathers from the doves, not because they are peacelovers or birdlovers, but because they can foresee the slaughter incurred by their expert craftsmanship. The ramparts are measured up for firing corridors, with colored ribbons marking off distances and microclimate wind-tunnels.

The Mosel Valley is part of the prize, three barren soil farms with white wine grapes, Mosel Grapes. Cattle grazing the land, with tender beef being the end product, very tasty with German wine. It is bordered between Weintraub Hill in the south and the Cemetery Hill in the north. Cemetery Hill is right now where our battered Mongol Army stands.

From the Cemetery Hill, or in German, Entlösung Hill, we can see a German Army of Elephants thundering around the mound on the westside, with 88 mm trunks they sweep the Western plains in a threatening, yet pompous fashion. Farther West we can see grazing elephants next to Schnabelsee, the little lake signaling that this is where Roman border meets German border (Ebony and Ivory, living side by side in perfect haaaarmony...). We will refer to the threatening Elephant Army as "Königstramper", the trampler of kings. This is why these elephants have been nurtured to grow so big, that you may suspect them to be kindred to Mammoths. The secret is that they are fed Weissbier and larger rations of grain than anyone else, and given the German milk cows from Mosel Valley, both meat and milk, so they grow to become almost 25 foot tall, amazingly big and strong German Elephants ( I thought the oldest of them wore a mustache).

From the Cemetery Hill, or in German, Zerstören Hill, we can see the German capital in the East, along the West Bank of Ehresblut River, with three full contingents of German troops. Outside, north of the bridge north of Berlin, a relief force of German longbowmen, trained city-defenders, is steadily approaching the city. We will refer to these as the "Sterbenfurt", the ones to die by the ford, as we cannot allow them to ever defend a city with their skills.

From the Cemetery Hill, or in German, Vernichter Hill, we can see that the relief force is coming towards a narrow river crossing. We all know they have no proper forces for a counterstrike, except possibly for the elephant. We still need to block reinforcements from seeping into Berlin, this means we should move units to defend that crossing and use that position to scout farther east for more German troops. Scouting has been a problem in this campaign, as absolutely no reconnaisance has been done, putting us in this precarious position.

Note that the GREEN SQUARE notes the location of our new advance siege and road denial position, with white lines showing where we got river defense bonuses from future German relief forces.

From the Cemetery Hill, or in German, Totenkopf Hill, we can see that we may need to keep our logistical lines open, as we have a badly, very badly battered elite Keshik formation (RED ARROW) I want to move out as soon as possibly, and for avoiding the Köngistramper to stomp these heroes from behind, I will put up a defense screen of spearmen in the ORANGE SQUARE, allowing our roads to remain sheltered. Hopefully, the Königstramper will either attack the advance rivercrossing position and harm himself on defensive spears at worse odds there, or do the same risktaking in our Mosel Valley Delaying Action. Note that we want this delaying action to halt Elephant attacks from Northwest.

This means that I intend to let the battered and weakened units rest on the hill till they are safe, move some relevant units to defend the ford from further relief actions, move some Anti Elephant units to defend the retreats of choice units (highly promoted units we want to save for later) and finally bring in reinforcements from Cumae (one Keshik, replaced by spearman soon) and Munich (several Keshiks and Macemen coming in).


For the city itself, we need to take into account that the garrison comprise of three different formations.

"SS REICHSTAG" - or Schiessenspezialisten Reischstag, expert longbowmen that name every arrow, know the lie of the land, can assess wind strengths even in drunk conditions and in generally master the bow better than Legolas himself. These are the main reason for the caution and observance on the attack.

"STURMKAMERADEN" - an expert German urban assault formation of spearmen, chosen for their tall sizes and urban training. These are now on the inside of the city, not the outside, and put in a awkward position like this, these are not an impressive adversary, more a commendable "good sports - but soon dead sports" adversary.

"VOLKSSTURM" - the elderly men and boys of Berlin, comprises a ragtag army of German conscripts. They are recruited out of the homes and Bierstubes, put into a uniform, if lucky, and sent to the ramparts. These will likely be our first kill in Berlin.

I will assume the worst, and say that the SS REICHSTAG will cost us between 3 and 8 units alone, I want to keep it at 3.

I would also be very pleased if we can make a revolution pretty soon. We need serfdom to build the road network for our army to travel easily in our vast continental empire, we really need that change right now. Also, we would be much better off with Vassalage, with an extra promotion per unit we can really make a difference in the field. I prefer a better army with units that lasts and improves, not a cannonfodder army. This is the main difference of the previous warlord and me.

Force Preservation, Force Specialization and Force Projection.


The promotions will from now on be designated for how the entire campaign army operates, and taking into account terrain, enemy army types, scalability and so on. I will put forward a list of promotions briefly.

BELOW:

A STAGED BATTLE PLAN WITH TWO MINOR OPERATIONS DURING THE HEALING STAGES

Berlincloseup.JPG
 
So what is your plan for actually taking this city? When is this going to happen? That's the most important issue and I don't believe you've covered that.

I have to disagree with your move to the flood plain north of Berlin, that will not block roads to Berlin in any significant way, troops could simply bypass our troops and cross into Berlin from the North East. Also it would reduce our defensive bonus in every direction because we would loose the +25% hill bonus, for a +10% river bonus in two directions. Also it wouldn't significantly increase our ability to see German territory, the only extra square we could see would be the gold hill east of the city, a tile they are unlikely to move troops across, considering it has no road.

I don't see why you would want to split our forces when the enemy does not oppose us with even one catapult, we can keep ALL of our forces on the hill tile they are currently on, there they will have the best defensive bonus possible, and they will have the combined advantages of all of our soldiers, rather than just a handful. This will mean there will be more units to select from when choosing the best defender, if we do face a counter attack.

Also why do you want to retreat our keshiks? Yes they are weak and they probably should have been given a few more turns to heal before this war began, however they will not heal any faster if they are retreated. They won't heal while marching, they won't be protected from attack by the healthy units, and they won't be available for use either for scouting, or for making quick attacks against weakened units.

Frankly this is far over-complicated, all we need is one turn of wait for our units to come online, then we can take this city with our healthy macemen, our large stack of outdated axemen, who aren't really a huge losss, and one or two catapults used to weaken the German defenses as much as possible.
 
So what is your plan for actually taking this city? When is this going to happen? That's the most important issue and I don't believe you've covered that.

The plan is to assault the city when some units are healed and we managed to kill off the two incoming relief units. When both conditions apply, the death of Königstrampler and the Sterbenfurt Relief Force, we are certain that we will attack and take the city next turnchat. It is quite evident that taking the city is easy, when we minimized the risk for losses.
I have to disagree with your move to the flood plain north of Berlin, that will not block roads to Berlin in any significant way, troops could simply bypass our troops and cross into Berlin from the North East. Also it would reduce our defensive bonus in every direction because we would loose the +25% hill bonus, for a +10% river bonus in two directions. Also it wouldn't significantly increase our ability to see German territory, the only extra square we could see would be the gold hill east of the city, a tile they are unlikely to move troops across, considering it has no road.

I beg to differ. The Germans have no real assault units, and we are quite safe as there are a maximum of five German units in the near future. We got enough units for two whole stacks, not only one. There may be a reduction of the bonus, temporarily, from 25 % to 10 %, but the resistance will be a longbowman with only city defense as specialty. I f we send a Keshik down there to take him out, he may be left stranded on that tile, since there is no road on that hill. We are not sacrificing a Keshik like that.


I don't see why you would want to split our forces when the enemy does not oppose us with even one catapult, we can keep ALL of our forces on the hill tile they are currently on, there they will have the best defensive bonus possible, and they will have the combined advantages of all of our soldiers, rather than just a handful. This will mean there will be more units to select from when choosing the best defender, if we do face a counter attack.

The simple and obvious choice would be to pigeonhole on that hill and attack next turn. That requires hardly any thinking at all, and does not really seek to improve our odds at the slightest. If we do face a counter-attack more than we can handle, one or two units as it stands right now, we simply move our men back on the hill. As long as we maintain local numeric superiority, we are free to expand into two tiles. Another advantage is that we may readily move out scouting parties of Keshiks from this position, something I will show later.
Also why do you want to retreat our keshiks? Yes they are weak and they probably should have been given a few more turns to heal before this war began, however they will not heal any faster if they are retreated. They won't heal while marching, they won't be protected from attack by the healthy units, and they won't be available for use either for scouting, or for making quick attacks against weakened units.

Call it safekeeping and long term force development as well as the inclination to cover our backs to Rome, in which the peace treaty ends in some seven turns. Notice that the German War will be against bowmen and spearmen, mostly, whereas the future Roman War will be against chariots and other types of formations. Our promotional profiles suggest that some units are put to better use in a different theatre, pending the bigger picture. We need to scale the army also for further technologies and upgrades. I am thinking several turns ahead, not just Berlin here.

Frankly this is far over-complicated, all we need is one turn of wait for our units to come online, then we can take this city with our healthy macemen, our large stack of outdated axemen, who aren't really a huge losss, and one or two catapults used to weaken the German defenses as much as possible.

It is not over-complicated, forking out into two tiles for some short term operations is hardly complex. It is also a sound strategy, as we cover more territory, expand our options and manage to time the elimination of the relief force at the best choice moment. Frankly, I cannot see a better moment than to do so at the bridge. I plan to expand scouting operations Northeast with Keshiks, also for scouting and pillaging in the German lands (hey some free gold here folks). I can promise you this will cut our losses and gain a more elegant victory. Just sitting on the hill and swarming with the unhealed stack is Soviet-like, childish and hardly elegant. We can do better than that.

For taking the city, I can see in 3 turns as the best likely moment.
 
I have to side with grant2004 here, i don't think splitting our forces is the right option, because A) You want the damaged units to heal quickly and the best way to do that is give them protection with healthy troops in a difficult place to attack. B) We are going to have to kill all those units, no need to run around after them, let them go to their deaths rather than us chase them.

It's not childish, we are just keeping our troops in a safe place before we attack the city which is our primary goal, not killing every unit.
 
I do want those promotions (from new kills) as we are about to get enough experience to make several promotions this battle. This is why force preservation is key, but also giving the right units the opportunity to improve is important as well. The road to Berlin is an objective in itself. It may be to some a very secondary objective, but we sure like those promotions when we have them.

I am not moving wounded units down from the hill, in the interim - during the healing phase - I will swiftly make sure I get some scout deeper into their territory. I can assure you these will be as safe as on the hill, due to the fact that we will employ the spearman, the Axemen #6 and #8, the fresh keshik.

The reason I warned against Germany was the Chichen Itza, which explain the extremely low odds for the city assault. 25 % defense bonus on all units is a lot, this is not only for the expert longbowman, but also the formations on the outside. Allowing them to attack us, not the other way around, in a controlled fashion, avoids us taking that risk, incurring it on them.

Then again, if we all agreed on the simple solutions all the time, this demogame may become quite boring, indeed.
 
Seond thoughts, I will only do one feint, not two feints. I will send an advance formation to the ford, in order to attract attacks from the relief elephant or relief
longbow formation. The units used will be the healthy Keshiks, Axemen 5 and Axemen 8, the remainder will stay on the hill. Allowing the Germans attack us deprives them for the 25 % Chichen Itza defense bonus as well as general defense bonuses, whereas these particular axemen have promotions against archers and mounted units, which is the elephant and longbowmen indeed.
The Axemen would also easily reject the spearmen, if that is the case. This will be a two turn feint only, then I will attack the city in force in turn 3 or four, depending on the scale of healing and external events.

I will attack with the catapults first, then one or two chosen macemen, then the remaining of the units requiring one or two xp to get a promotion. I think we will handle this easily, but with temperance.
 
I'm still not sold on this plan, the idea of sending troops up to the flood plain tile north of the city doesn't make any sense to me.

There may be a reduction of the bonus, temporarily, from 25 % to 10 %, but the resistance will be a longbowman with only city defense as specialty. I f we send a Keshik down there to take him out, he may be left stranded on that tile, since there is no road on that hill. We are not sacrificing a Keshik like that.

I may be misreading this, but are you suggesting that longbowman will attack us if we sit on the floodplain tile? If you are I can assure you that is not going to happen, the longbowman only has the city defense bonus, his chances of a successful attack would be very low. That longbowman will simply bypass our troops and march into Berlin via the road and bridge on the floodplain tile NE of the city. Once inside the city he'll be a much larger threat. We can't really block him from reaching the city unless you want to send a keshik out to the tile NE of the city and another stack of units NW of the city. Spreading our units even thinner than you originally suggested. Or we can attack it with a keshik and defeat it before it can reach the city where it will kill even more of our soldiers.

I can promise you this will cut our losses and gain a more elegant victory. Just sitting on the hill and swarming with the unhealed stack is Soviet-like, childish and hardly elegant. We can do better than that.

I'm not looking for an elegant victory here, I'm looking for a smart one. You've promised that we'd loose less by splitting our troops, but you haven't shown how that is going to happen. I can't support this strategy until you explain why it is better than keeping our troops in a defensive position until they are ready to take the city.
 
Frankly put, I want to take out the rampant Königstramper in an elegant fashion, because he can move towards Cumae and create a risk there, he may enter Berlin and add to the defense there.

That hill, in my revised plan is still unassailable and quite capable of taking the city (after some healing) without help. This hill will wait for the third turn before it strikes. The plan is simply to send Axeman 6 and 8 and the healthy Keshik down to that foodplain tile. The Germans are dumb if they attack them, as they only weaken their defense, so that is not likely to happen. It may be the fact that the elephant goes for it. I rather absorb the elephant sooner than later with the present odds at hand. The best we can do is to make this foodplain feint to take out the elephant, either by defense or by counterattack. Since axemen 6 and 8 got bonuses against mounted units, at least one of these will damage the elephant enough to make the spearman counter the next turn actually count. I do not intend to use the surviving axeman and keshik anyways for taking the city. The Keshik will go further into German tg scout as we conquer the city, whereas the surviving axeman may be used to cross the river - hunting for the longbowman (with anti-archery bonus)/or participate in the attack, which is very unlikely with the good odds in 3 turns. .
 
Nope sorry still don't buy the plan, because we only have to kill the units in Berlin to capture it, i know this is stating the obivous but there is no point risking troops on units that can be taken out later, they pose no real threat as long as we stay on the hill or in the city once we have capture it. Also i think it was falcon 02 who observed that the elephant had gone past Berlin from the east so i doubt if it will head back.

What tactical reason is there to move onto the floodplain, why would that give us an advantage?
 
1. I want to trick the elephant to attack us, and take it out with spears
2. I do not want the elephant to wander about, possibly go to Cumae
3. I have a unit promotion plan, which fits
4. Germany has no horses, only elephants, I have a plan to regroup our forces
5. I want to send scouts on the east side of The Khan River
6. Berlin will be taken care of with the remaining troops
7. The axemen I send are better used in the field
8. I have a plan for the spearman's next promotion
9. The units on the hill need to heal, and I need to generate options in the meantime
10. I just want to do it.


PS - the Germans are disadvantaged when they attack, as they do not get the 25 % Chichen Itza defense bonus they get within their own borders.
 
I have a proposal to make:

Our new Warlord has the right to prove his worthiness as Mongol General.
Allow him to personally lead our men onto the next battle.

Then we all will know if he is a Military Khan, or just an elegant (Chinese??
Western??) storyteller.

Best regards,
 
To fed:
That could possibly lead our men, who we spent so many a night apon, to their deaths. We do not want to have wasted so much production on something that may not work.

To plan:
United we stand, divided we fall. Leave the men together, where they are now, and attack "tomorrow"
 
Take it easy, I know exactly what I am doing, just wait and see.
 
all we need is one turn of wait for our units to come online, then we can take this city with our healthy macemen, our large stack of outdated axemen, who aren't really a huge losss, and one or two catapults used to weaken the German defenses as much as possible.
Agreed! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Simpler is always better.

Allowing the Germans attack us deprives them for the 25 % Chichen Itza defense bonus as well as general defense bonuses,
The defenses at Berlin have already been reduced to rubble. This includes the defense bonus given by city walls or the Chichen Itza.
 
I'm unclear about an aspect of this plan, are you going to order keshiks to attack that longbowman before he can retreat into Berlin?

IMHO this is the most important move for our military because allowing the longbowman to reach the city would greatly enhance his ability to fight.
 
I know the AI by now, and the plan I propose, will allow us to fight a running battle in the wilderness, as we swoop into Berlin. That stack is all good and dandy as long as the first longbowman is dispensed with. Also, the Elephant is a liability to have in our rear, so we need to remove him now.
 
That doesn't really answer my question, in previous posts it has seemed that you intend to blockade the longbowman and prevent him from entering the city, however you've only suggested one position off the hill, which is far too little to stop him from entering the city. Are you going to attack him, deploy a large line of soldiers to prevent him from entering the city, or allow him to pass without contest.
 
As you have still not answered the question of what will be done with that longbowman I'm not in the least bit assured. I don't want to sound testy but this is getting a bit annoying. I'm asking a legitimate question why won't you give me a straight answer, I'm still open minded on this plan you don't need to treat me as an opponent.
 
Take it easy, I know exactly what I am doing, just wait and see.

I'm unclear about an aspect of this plan, are you going to order keshiks to attack that longbowman before he can retreat into Berlin?

IMHO this is the most important move for our military because allowing the longbowman to reach the city would greatly enhance his ability to fight.

I know the AI by now, and the plan I propose, will allow us to fight a running battle in the wilderness, as we swoop into Berlin. That stack is all good and dandy as long as the first longbowman is dispensed with. Also, the Elephant is a liability to have in our rear, so we need to remove him now.

Are you going to attack him, deploy a large line of soldiers to prevent him from entering the city, or allow him to pass without contest.

The plan will work, rest assured.

I see lots of questions and very few actual answers.

Please post the current intended instructions to the DP, for citizen review and comment. I'd recommend using fairly plain language, and pictures.
 
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