JBG
Prince
Cast your eyes upwards to the second post and you can see the (admittedly basic) FAQ I've written. It'll be amended by us as time goes by, but for now it ought to answer at least the most basic of issues/questions, &c.
The Song of the Moon
- Thread starter JBG
- Start date
First post ¬_¬
My impressions after playing for 100ish turns:
1) The mod is incredibly confusing at first glance - none of the techs stand out in the same way that 'horsies!' or 'farms!' do in vanilla. The leaders all merg into each other, and it's just too many to really grasp who is good - I think you could do with boiling them down to some stripped archetypes, like Alpha Centauri. Without the instant name recognition granted by AC (only a few, very differently named, faction leaders) or Civ 4 vanilla (differently named, historical names that people already know) it's just a shopping list of unknowns.
The main problem I had was the terrain. It's impossible, at a glance, to see what a certain terrain piece is. You really need to make dust seas look distinct, somehow, and if you could physically raise the crater rims it would look much better. It's just all grey, and unless you can make the different types look, well, different, it's going to make the mod much harder to play. As it is, I was randomly placing greenhouses down by moving my builders around 1 square at a time and seeing if the option was available.
The engineers were bugged - on automated, they all went and stood at the edge of my empire in a single stack, even when there was plenty of cities not roaded, resources not mined/roaded etc. Units told to explore also got bugged and just stood still, maybe the map confuses them
The barbarians are huge overkill. I can't even imagine the idea of pirates/barbarians/etc in an early-colonisation moon. I certainly shouldn't be under siege by barbarians :s The most i'd want is the occasional meteor, every other turn perhaps. Next game i'll turn them off entirely.
Just a personal taste, but i'd prefer resources to be rare and spread out. I was playing on a small map, but I had 20+ resources (including multiples of some). I'd prefer to see a moon empire with bases widely spaced, connected by slender strings of roads, whereas (admittedly, on a small map which is always gonna be cramped) I was seeing very earth like empires - dense packing of cities, loads of resources, spider webs of roads connecting cities in all directions. I put down several cities just because there was loads of resources I could see and wanted.
The mod looks kinda goofy but that's just a result of not enough unit graphic replacements.
I think the mod has a lot of promise though, and I've always liked the early-colonisation-era as a setting.
My impressions after playing for 100ish turns:
1) The mod is incredibly confusing at first glance - none of the techs stand out in the same way that 'horsies!' or 'farms!' do in vanilla. The leaders all merg into each other, and it's just too many to really grasp who is good - I think you could do with boiling them down to some stripped archetypes, like Alpha Centauri. Without the instant name recognition granted by AC (only a few, very differently named, faction leaders) or Civ 4 vanilla (differently named, historical names that people already know) it's just a shopping list of unknowns.
The main problem I had was the terrain. It's impossible, at a glance, to see what a certain terrain piece is. You really need to make dust seas look distinct, somehow, and if you could physically raise the crater rims it would look much better. It's just all grey, and unless you can make the different types look, well, different, it's going to make the mod much harder to play. As it is, I was randomly placing greenhouses down by moving my builders around 1 square at a time and seeing if the option was available.
The engineers were bugged - on automated, they all went and stood at the edge of my empire in a single stack, even when there was plenty of cities not roaded, resources not mined/roaded etc. Units told to explore also got bugged and just stood still, maybe the map confuses them
The barbarians are huge overkill. I can't even imagine the idea of pirates/barbarians/etc in an early-colonisation moon. I certainly shouldn't be under siege by barbarians :s The most i'd want is the occasional meteor, every other turn perhaps. Next game i'll turn them off entirely.
Just a personal taste, but i'd prefer resources to be rare and spread out. I was playing on a small map, but I had 20+ resources (including multiples of some). I'd prefer to see a moon empire with bases widely spaced, connected by slender strings of roads, whereas (admittedly, on a small map which is always gonna be cramped) I was seeing very earth like empires - dense packing of cities, loads of resources, spider webs of roads connecting cities in all directions. I put down several cities just because there was loads of resources I could see and wanted.
The mod looks kinda goofy but that's just a result of not enough unit graphic replacements.
I think the mod has a lot of promise though, and I've always liked the early-colonisation-era as a setting.
I've played around 150 turns on prince and i must say it's a lot better than i expected!
Of course i can't say about balance much nor about ai-military (i'm a builder type of player i don't usually start war unless provocked) but for an alpha stage i experienced no crash at all nor any major issue.
GOOD WORK !!
Of course i can't say about balance much nor about ai-military (i'm a builder type of player i don't usually start war unless provocked) but for an alpha stage i experienced no crash at all nor any major issue.
GOOD WORK !!
JBG
Prince
@ Entsuropi:
First of all, thanks for playing. Well, the majority of the issues you raise are ones we expect to fix before too long. For example, we expect to have tooltips mastered, and the tech tree is only in it's alpha form.
In terms of your other points - well, we had to decide between realism and playability. In choosing the names of the civ leaders, I tried to choose names that were memorable and appropriate to the civ. in question - having the European Space Agency led by a Chinaman or the Asian Space Exploration Consortium headed by an Australian wouldn't be especially credible.
Hopefully things will become clearer once we complete the civilopedia entries. Of course, there will be teething problems with the different leaders and how they relate to each other.
As for your automation points - thanks for identifying them. As a rule I never use the automated explorer/worker settings as they invariably screw up my grand plan, and I'd imagine that the rest of the team don't use them for similar reasons. Ultimately, though, my only suggestion is not to use them. The automation files are almost certainly buried somewhere in python, and with all the new stuff we've added (and with all the old stuff we've taken away) they are probably extremely buggy. To be safe, the best thing to do is simply not use them.
A good deal of this mod is a placeholder for future additions/graphics/programming/subtractions/whatever (this is only Alpha!) and what we have so far is only a taste of what we hope to achieve. Our goal in this was to build a workable, playable, enjoyable (?) foundation base upon which to build our grand master works. We are currently working on some fundamental changes to the general Civ dynamic, so bear with us! And meteors are one of them.
As for resources, opinions differ on which arrangement is best. Perhaps I should suggest an option to alter the density and placement of resources..?
First of all, thanks for playing. Well, the majority of the issues you raise are ones we expect to fix before too long. For example, we expect to have tooltips mastered, and the tech tree is only in it's alpha form.
In terms of your other points - well, we had to decide between realism and playability. In choosing the names of the civ leaders, I tried to choose names that were memorable and appropriate to the civ. in question - having the European Space Agency led by a Chinaman or the Asian Space Exploration Consortium headed by an Australian wouldn't be especially credible.
Hopefully things will become clearer once we complete the civilopedia entries. Of course, there will be teething problems with the different leaders and how they relate to each other.
As for your automation points - thanks for identifying them. As a rule I never use the automated explorer/worker settings as they invariably screw up my grand plan, and I'd imagine that the rest of the team don't use them for similar reasons. Ultimately, though, my only suggestion is not to use them. The automation files are almost certainly buried somewhere in python, and with all the new stuff we've added (and with all the old stuff we've taken away) they are probably extremely buggy. To be safe, the best thing to do is simply not use them.
A good deal of this mod is a placeholder for future additions/graphics/programming/subtractions/whatever (this is only Alpha!) and what we have so far is only a taste of what we hope to achieve. Our goal in this was to build a workable, playable, enjoyable (?) foundation base upon which to build our grand master works. We are currently working on some fundamental changes to the general Civ dynamic, so bear with us! And meteors are one of them.
As for resources, opinions differ on which arrangement is best. Perhaps I should suggest an option to alter the density and placement of resources..?
I definitely disagree about the resources. The more the merrier. They make the game look better and make it more enjoyable for me. If you want less change the Dust Sea setting to max, along with Peak density. No resources on either of those spots. 
I've never automated workers in CivIV. I wouldn't have a clue what they would do on the Moon since we did modify everything.
Thanks acantoni for the kind words. This version is pretty good for Alpha, at least through the 2nd era.
I've never automated workers in CivIV. I wouldn't have a clue what they would do on the Moon since we did modify everything.
Thanks acantoni for the kind words. This version is pretty good for Alpha, at least through the 2nd era.
Shablul
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
- Messages
- 47
It's looking excellent!
My biggest concern is that I can't start a revolution from the civics screen. In fact, I can't do anything in the civics screen and have to press Esc to get out of it. Doesn't matter too much since none of the civics are explained. I just start a revolution when prompted. Still, it'd be nice to know what they are in the screen and be able to manipulate them too.
Other than that, I think it's fantastic work! Thank you so very much!
Peace
My biggest concern is that I can't start a revolution from the civics screen. In fact, I can't do anything in the civics screen and have to press Esc to get out of it. Doesn't matter too much since none of the civics are explained. I just start a revolution when prompted. Still, it'd be nice to know what they are in the screen and be able to manipulate them too.
Other than that, I think it's fantastic work! Thank you so very much!
Peace
JBG
Prince
Now I've never had THAT problem before. If you take a look at one of the screenshots on the first page you'll see what the civics screen SHOULD look like. Have you altered the game files in any way since you downloaded?
Also, are there any civics in the civilopedia?
Also, are there any civics in the civilopedia?
Civic screen working here!
In my current game i've stumbled upon something very strange.
It seems some of my opponent don't build/improve at all !!! others instead (the dark pink in my savegame) do improve the terrain a lot.
I suggest that might be interesting if someone can please download my savegame and check the worldbuilder to see this strange ai behaviour
In my current game i've stumbled upon something very strange.
It seems some of my opponent don't build/improve at all !!! others instead (the dark pink in my savegame) do improve the terrain a lot.
I suggest that might be interesting if someone can please download my savegame and check the worldbuilder to see this strange ai behaviour
matthewv
Emperor
@acantoni
Thank you so much for all your detailed reports on the mod. This is very helpul to all of us working on the mod.
Thank you so much for all your detailed reports on the mod. This is very helpul to all of us working on the mod.
This is likely directly related to the issue about automation of engineers etc. working sometimes and not at others. I almost think it is related to the type of civ. (I will look into this more closely)
I used the automated workers since I was panicing over not having a clue what anything did
I'll have to try maxing out the dust seas - that should make them more noticable. On my game, they were only 3squares by 1 squares (more a lake) and it was blending into the general dappled grey pattern.
I'll have to try maxing out the dust seas - that should make them more noticable. On my game, they were only 3squares by 1 squares (more a lake) and it was blending into the general dappled grey pattern.
Entsuropi said:I used the automated workers since I was panicing over not having a clue what anything did
I'll have to try maxing out the dust seas - that should make them more noticable. On my game, they were only 3squares by 1 squares (more a lake) and it was blending into the general dappled grey pattern.
Early on your engineers can build the He3 plant and roads. For a time they can be scouts since you need to get either Glass Working or Automation to build other stuff. I normally go military in my tech!
Haarbal
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 401
DL'ing right now
i think the problem about the automated worker is a BIG BIG problem. at first i would say, command them yourself, BUT isn't automating your workers, automaticly using the same strategy as the AI for building improvements? If this is so, it would mean that the AI never will build improvements, which putts them on a stop at the beginning of the game.
of course if this isn't so, it's not a big problem
i think the problem about the automated worker is a BIG BIG problem. at first i would say, command them yourself, BUT isn't automating your workers, automaticly using the same strategy as the AI for building improvements? If this is so, it would mean that the AI never will build improvements, which putts them on a stop at the beginning of the game.
of course if this isn't so, it's not a big problem
matthewv
Emperor
If you read this whole thread you will realize that we are looking into this and that atomated workers do work sometimes
. As posted above someone realized that some civilizations built improvements while others did not
matthewv
Emperor
Yes I was thinking it might have to do with something like that. I have to confirm this yet though. If someone can list the civs that seem to have troble with automated workers it would really help.
matthewv
Emperor
The map script is a ".py" file that is called moon_map.py. You will find it in the song of the moon folder
GarretSidzaka
Modder
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2002
- Messages
- 4,700
Getting it now! Looks like it came together well!
