The Song of the Moon

Entsuropi said:
The great general seems slightly out of place, but one of them did appear after a (if I may say so) particularly fine burning of an enemy outpost. I wouldn't like to see one appear naturally as part of the Great Person chance, that doesn't seem to me to be appropriate for early colonisation luna.

the game I am playing certainly generated a lot of them since I was under attack by two AI opponents for a long time. they are treated as a GP variety and so can start a Golden Age in combo with other GP units of a different type (same as in vanilla Civ 4).
 
regarding duplicate improvements, the Theatre Wonder, Military Training Wonder, and Fungus Wonder all create a free improvement in all cities. however unlike vanilla Civ 3 or Civ 4 an additional instance of that improvement can be built.

hence I had two theatres, two military bases, and two mushroom farms in each of my cities since I built all three of these Wonders.

this behavior has been noted from the start by other posters on this board.

as much as I liked having the duplicate improvements, they create serious balance issues, particularly if one player has all these Wonders. :ninja:

NOTE: duplicates of wonder buildings only occurs in non Moon map based games.

=========================

one of my cities also built two park improvements.

others have noted they have built duplicate turrets in their cities.
 
Any of the issues listed joel are most liking unintentional and simply overlooked. :)

I'm starting to get the itch again...should we try to fix this mod and polish it up?
 
bcr1776 said:
Ice folks, If we can colonize the Moon we can move an asteroid.

this would make a neat Wonder in that could either provide the ice resource or food (indirectly). in that Wonders are currently very few and most are early in the game, this is something to look into.

however the obvious prerequisite tech of flight or rocketry has yet to be fully implemented.

even though there are no above-ground mobile units, the game still has a spaceship victory at the end, a non sequitur that needs to be at least be changed to a Mars mission rather than Alpha Centauri. :hammer2:

===========

BTW, a full spaceship victory is not currently implemented. rather the building of five SS casings (which can be built simultaneously) leads to a spaceship victory.

I ended up with such a spaceship victory at year 429 by building (simultaneously) five SS casings. if the spaceship victory is kept it needs to be at least as hard as vanilla Civ4, ie more spaceship components, etc.
 
some early commenters on this board noticed how the civs blend together, and I certainly found that to be the case.

each civ needs a leaderhead even if it is not animated. Cassidy attacked me for no reason and I still do not know what he looks like.

the other civ which attacked me is so forgettable, oh yes it was Indira. don't know what she looks like either.

==================

speaking of bugs, the number three civ had enough brains to knock off a civ with only a size three city, but it took it over two hundred years to do so. yet this civ is so dumb it never built a single port by the end of the game (spaceship victory in year 429 of a quick game).

obviously the AI in general does not value ocean going and certainly does not realize the huge benefit in building cities on a nearby island (see my earlier spoiler post today on this board for detailed analysis).

:egypt:
 
GeoModder said:
IIRC, the engineer can build lunar fortresses as well. Now if only the Military engineer could make those? Guess the same could count for other military installations like radar towers and such.

it was unclear from the Civilopedia descriptions whether the engineer and the military engineer both build all available improvements.

what follows is a summary of the behavior of this unit -

Spoiler :


1) today I found out the only difference in the two units when using a non Moon-based map is that it is harder to kill a military engineer since he is level 3 in power.

2) the military engineer cannot build a customs outpost to improve a resource tile so it yields coins. this is true whether or not a Moon-map is used. this is surely an unintentional bug in the current patch 0.23.

3) in a non Moon-map based game hills are available, and a military engineer also cannot build a customs outpost on a hill tile.

4) in a Moon-map based game the military engineer can build forts wheareas a normal engineer unit cannot. (in a non Moon map based game neither unit can build forts.)

 
Drakonik said:
I think if you created a new type of Goody_Hut, which I think is possible with pure XML, or possibly XML+Python. Just skin up something interesting, and bada bing bada doom, you've got a relic to hunt for.

goody huts only appear as "debris" when playing a Moon-map based version of the game.

in that so many folks are playing non Moon-map versions of the game (usually like myself by accident), I would suggest adding debris to such maps as well all the other missing resources such as titanium and plutonium.
 
joelwest said:
are there any goody huts? the game I am playing never revealed any.

It's either wreckage or debris. And you have to have barbarians "on" to get goody huts.

Are you reading the entire thread? :eek:
 
OwieB2003 said:
On the topic of Earth involvement, why not a few wonders or buildings? In the beginning, a colonization/Earth tribute wonder that gives +health or popgrowth, later, a trade wonder signifying the now advanced trade network between Earth's cities and the Moon's, and then a lil popboost/health nonwonder building similar to the wonder in late game as immigration between the two becomes more feasible? Just a quickie idea.

this is a great idea not yet implemented.

I suggest the earth-moon treaty as a Wonder that yields +6 trade routes in all cities.

however this proposed Wonder also needs to tie in with the "isolation" tech that has been described on this board as an EVENT rather than a tech, ie when Luna and Earth part company. (to state the obvious, a age-transition movie needs to launched announcing that your civ has entered the "post-Gaia age" when this tech is achieved. since this did not happen, I did not know this event/tech was at all significant when it occured in the game.)

perhaps this earth-moon treaty Wonder should be like the Stonehenge Wonder in vanilla Civ 4, a Wonder whose effects expire early in the game.

provided you buy this analysis, a placeholder tech needs to be found that occurs very early in the game as the prerequisite for this Wonder. :ninja:
 
Mr.Earl said:
Have you figured out what to do with the religion(s)? The only thing I can think of is replacing them with "Lunar Political Parties," which would make the mod sound like a joke.

a way to introduce aliens into SotM is by having all religions derived from past aliens who lived on the moon. in that case stumbling across an artifact rather than fulfilling a tech would found the religion.

=====================================

one problem, with a Terra map (a non Moon-map version of the game) most of the moon is not the primary land masses, but rather a dimpled golf ball of islands in the midst of a vast "dust ocean."

with such a map this would make it imperative to explore the entire Moon since by random chance the religion sites would likely be on remote islands in the "dust ocean."

=====================================

I just saw the graphics for Sir Aragorn's UFO units and that gave me a new idea. if the religious artifacts are to be restricted to large land masses, they could be in a cluster such as the UFO's he created for his thumbnail shot. this would mean a unit would have to "explore" each of the shapes to determine which one has the alien artifacts in it to found a new religion. each different alien religious artifact could randomly be in a set of identical UFO looking structures.

:band:
 
Nadin Bytefelt said:
hi
The engineer specialist produce a Great person a Engineer (normal worker in your Mod) not a Great Engineer.

this is not a strong balance issue in the current version of the mod 0.23.

since Genetic Screening is available as a Special non-time expiring civic from the start of the game, most players will use this civic the entire game.

the game play pattern I developed for myself was to create ALL eng specialists for my workers unless there is a tile which is a flood plain or resource tile. (for a non Moon-map version of the game, my workers also worked hill tiles.)

a city will max out around pop nine or ten unless having one of the above tiles.

Spoiler :

(NOTE: islands in non Moon-map version of the game create additional pop with the Ion shield improvement putting food in its surrounding dust sea. this additonal pop is not available in a Moon-map version of the game since none of the skimmers can be built to reach such remote islands.)


as a city starts to max out around pop nine or ten I slowly switch the eng specialists to artist, scientist or merchant specialists as enough hammers now come from powered manufacturing plants.

so for my "developing" cities any great persons produced are always engineers. from the perspective of game balance, the relative lack of power for the engineer GP unit reflects the fact the city is still developing.

however I will admit a mere engineer unit is too lowly a unit to provide any real help to the gamer, so there is a balance issue here that needs to be addressed.

my proposed fix to this Great Engineer GP balance issue is to for the created unit to be a slightly more powerful version of the military engineer who does not found a new tech like other GP's, but functions like the standard engineer worker - maybe with a power level of five?

:spear:

====================================

in my more advanced cities where the population has maxed out and no more significant improvements are left, I use artists, scientists, or merchants as the specialists.

there is a different balance issue here that needs to addressed.

artist and scientist specialists max out at four, but merchant specialists max out at only two. this limitation is felt most when the tech tree is ended as merchant specs are needed to generate income coin. :hammer2:

my proposed fix to this balance issue using the current improvements available is for the digital stock exchange to add the possibility of two more merchant specialists.

an alternative is to add another merchant type of improvement such as a grocer or supermarket (or both) that provide the opportunity to add merchant specialists.

four artist specialists are only available in a non Moon-map based version of the game where a Wonder creates a free theatre that can be duplicated. a fix to this is to disallow such duplicate buildings and create a new tech or two that adds the ability to create up to four artists. perhaps this could also be implemented as a civic, but preferably not a "special" civic since Genetic Screening is a must.
 
c.fe said:
OK. I played the mod for a bit in chieftain. I liked the sometimes huge differences from vanilla civ but I also had some issues:

  • I couldn't build solar collectors because they're only buildable on flatlands.

But it was nevertheless quite fun, have to try it on warlord.

are solar collectors implemented? they never were an option with either a Moon-map or a land-map using version 0.23. I assumed they were vaporware like boreholes, etc.

NOTE: Glasshouses are not vaporware, but are only available with a Moon-map based version of the game. What follows is a spoiler regarding their optimum use.

Spoiler :

I originally went hog wild with Glasshouses, but soon came to realize that custom outposts are a better long term improvement. (I had to systematically replace all the useless Glasshouses in the mature cities of my empire.)

one Glasshouse at most is usually enough to help keep a city growing as it builds its food improvements. a Glasshouse is preferably built on a polar tile since it also produces a hammer to aid in the effort to get the food production improvements built.

I found that only cities started on an island in a dust sea are so food poor that multiple Glasshouse are necessary.

in any case, once a city reaches or nears its pop limit Glasshouses serve no useful purpose and need to be replaced with customs outposts.

the only rationale to keep Glasshouses is that the game rewards your score based upon population in your cities. however I found it better myself to have smaller cities producing more income from customs houses. this enables more coin to be able to either found new cities or zip through the tech tree.

the only caveat with customs houses is that it is possible to build more than your food capacity can support in your 21 tile city grid. the avoid overbuilding, a strategy would be to only keep one ahead of the number you know you need.

it might also be strategic to keep one extra customs house on hand in case an invasion destroys one of the other ones.

BTW, the AI never figured any of this this out. Glasshouses still remained in its mature cities. most cities had few if any custom houses.

the game itself continually made blue circles indicating custom houses "should" be replaced.


 
woodelf said:
Basically the Isolation is the event that cuts off the Colonists from Earth. Whether that is because of problems Earthside, sabotage Lunar side, or something else we never specified. That event changes the transfer of He-3 to Earth for food to a total need for the Moon to be self-sufficient.

the isolation event/tech occured so early in the game I hardly missed the He-3.

however now that you have explained what the isolation event/tech signifies, this could be the event that triggers the alien artifacts that lead to moon religions. :ninja:
 
Belizan said:
There is no reason for them (the AI) not to use National Emergency (special civic) as often as the rules allow, and so they do.

:/.

I strongly disagree. any civ making repeated use of the National Emergency special civic is not making the proper use of the Genetic Screening special civic.

this makes a huge difference since the latter is NOT time limited in its positive effects. Genetic Screening only produces slightly less than having a National Emergency anyway.

any civ playing the "Normal" special civic is also totally braindead.

========================================

an always available Genetic Screening special civic does create a balance issue since unlike the other special civics it is not time limited.

the Genetic Screening special civic either needs to expire or have a prerequisite tech.

another option (less desirable) would be create another "special" civic that gives unlimited artists or merchants instead.

Spoiler :

according to my own strategic analysis, once cities have their pop maxed out, the engineer spec's are then only further useful to create coin or culture (rather than build new units or improvements).


:ninja:
 
Tholish said:
Most terrain squares cannot be improved and only a few improvement types are possible. So its just buildings and a few units.

currently only floodplains and resource tiles (plus hill tiles in a non Moon-map version of the game) have any production value greater than an engineer specialist (2 hammers).

Spoiler :

anyone implementing the Genetic Screening special civic can make all of his workers eng spec if he wants to starting with year one.


all flatlands can be "improved" by a worker action of building a road facilitating movement.

custom outposts and glasshouses (the latter are only available for Moon-map based versions of SotM 0.23) are improvements that help all of the other tile types except crater rims and dust seas.

crater rims are worthless tiles regarding production or locating a city there (the latter fact not currently noted in the Civilopedia). crater rim tiles only usefulness currently is to provide a defense bonus to units located there.

===========================

suggestions

1) crater rims could be treated as Civ 3 mountains, ie they can be mined but yield less hammers than hills.

2) cities should be allowed to be built on crater rim tiles since "hills" are currently not implemented in Moon-map based versions of SotM.

3) flatlands can have a +1 food improvement that comes about later in the game. (the E-M Shielding tech currently makes possible the Ion Shield improvement that boosts food production in dust seas located on a non Moon-based map.)

however the above improvements would radically change the game and make the moon much less bleak a productive landscape than it is actually is.

===========================

speaking of terrain, forests, jungles, and rivers as moon terrain "features" are ludicrous, yet are created on non Moon-based maps for SotM.

if the desire is to have more hammers or more defense, these features could instead be a smaller type of crater, mineral rich maria, or something else more moonlike on non Moon-based maps for SotM. :hammer2:
 
see attached files below for game years 461 & 540

View attachment Song of the Moon AD 0461.zip

View attachment Song of the Moon AD 0540 .zip

===========================

there is water food tile bug that has crept in fairly late in the game.

1)
my two island cities Tierra del Fueg and Falkland Isles are unable to build either the Electrolysis Plant or the Ion Shield. :eek:

examining the later file for year 540 their cultural borders are also messed up since they are not growing the same in all directions.

2)
the recently captured CSA city "CSA Alhazen" shows food in its water tiles before the Ion Shield has been built. :eek:

examining the later file in the year 540 apparently the problem is that when a rival city is captured its old technology is sometimes not being reported as already built.

hence Solarite shows food in water since it already had built an ion shield. nonetheless I am able to queue and build another ion shield to eventually get two food in the water.

===========================

there is also a bug with the trade unions improvement. :eek:

the civilopedia says it is available for free on ancient and later starts, meaning it is always free once the prerequisite tech (Real Estate Law) for it is discovered?

yet there is a cost in hammers listed, so available for free on ancient starts cannot be correct.

the F5 listing (see above attached files) says I have only have seven trade unions although in fact they are in every city. my memory is that very early in the game trade unions were part of the queue, but some reason they dropped out.
 
Wow, woodelf I hope you're paying attention. joelwest seems to be full of suggestions and bug reports and is single handedly keeping this mod "active" (for the lack of a better term). :D
 
:)

I'm thinking that he's about volunteered himself to either:

A - Help me resurrect this mod or
B - Join our team for the next version.
 
He also seems to be playing the mod in a normal Civ map, not the moonmap python script. ;)
(in short, some of the bugs could be from that)
 
Back
Top Bottom