The strength of Summons

[Tiarilir]

I really think this is an issue, and that we lack an effective Summoner-killer.

What I think is of a national unit (1-3 available), Whom resists the summonings, thereby being unable to be attacked by them. Because I think stacking mages only is really a game-breaker in MP. This unit I'm thinking about shouldn't be too strong though, and another type of spellcaster should be able to kill him somehow (Fireballs, whatever)


What do you think?

 

[DeaExMachina]

Well I've always thought that magic was way too powerful while assassins do a decent job hunting mages they can't defend against them. A Mage Slayer unit with something like +75% vs Summons or +50% Resistance to Elements would do well in protecting against the nearly unstoppable horde of Archmages and summoners.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Well I've always thought that magic was way too powerful while assassins do a decent job hunting mages they can't defend against them. A Mage Slayer unit with something like +75% vs Summons or +50% Resistance to Elements would do well in protecting against the nearly unstoppable horde of Archmages and summoners.

I like the idea. perhaps it should come with the same tech as sparatori. This is because, I find that going down the metals/melee branch means you neglect magic and are therefore moresusceptible to it.

I think it should be a military unit called Vocous. Everytime it kills a tier 3 arcane unit it gains the immortal promotion for 1 turn. Also, it should act as a ring of warding, destroying any summons. Obviously it should be a national unit.

 

[loocas]

I've always thought that dimensional magic should have an unsummon spell (is that what Banish does?). I agree that this unit should be on the melee path, but maybe they could have a dimensional spell that does away with summons. However that does defeat the purpose a bit, since players would have to at least research Necromancy.

 

[Tiarilir]

Well I've always thought that magic was way too powerful while assassins do a decent job hunting mages they can't defend against them. A Mage Slayer unit with something like +75% vs Summons or +50% Resistance to Elements would do well in protecting against the nearly unstoppable horde of Archmages and summoners.

I like the idea. perhaps it should come with the same tech as sparatori. This is because, I find that going down the metals/melee branch means you neglect magic and are therefore moresusceptible to it.

I think it should be a military unit called Vocous. Everytime it kills a tier 3 arcane unit it gains the immortal promotion for 1 turn. Also, it should act as a ring of warding, destroying any summons. Obviously it should be a national unit.

Yes, this is something along the lines I'm thinking too. Because as of right now the summoner-stacks are all-too-mighty.

Perhaps even make a two-step promotion giving +25% and then +60% against elementals? I favor the melee branch because that's the way I like playing games, using brute force. But in multiplayer games I am far too weak against all the people using only mages/summoners/etc...

 

[wr4th]

errrr. you are aware that there is already a magic resistance promotion in the game?! +25% to all and then +50% to specific sphere being available at combat 4.

And introducing a unit thats simply invulnerable to summons or can just banish all summons doesn't seem very balancing to me...

 

[Tiarilir]

errrr. you are aware that there is already a magic resistance promotion in the game?! +25% to all and then +50% to specific sphere being available at combat 4.

I'm totally aware of that. But you can't do anything against a giant bunch of mages if you're headed down the melee tree, especially not if they all summon stuff. It's overpowered.

 

[westamastaflash]

Does charm person stop casting? I think that it ought to. that should shut down summoners pretty quick...

 

[wr4th]

I'm totally aware of that. But you can't do anything against a giant bunch of mages if you're headed down the meele tree, especially not if they all summon stuff. It's overpowered.

Well i really think magic should be powerful. but its also coming later in the game. you can always rush someone who is going straight for summoners. I mean what are you doing while he gets his "giant bunch of mages"?
Plus an archmage or summoner is much harder to replace then a spartiatoi. lvl 2 summons and spells are really not so dangerous, even in numbers. just use those anti magic promotions.

 

[Roghar]

A promotion tree with boni against summons would seem to be appropriate - can be in parallel to magic resistance. Alternately, seeing as magic resistance is a bit weak, have the MR apply to combat against summons also. WOuld give units a bit of an edge without being overpowered

If you take the first step of it you gain +20% str against summons, and the specialised ones can apply to summons of that magic type too, very simply. If this is too strong just halve the bonues - i.e. 20% MR & +10% against summons

I think we'd still find not many players upgrade their units to have MR, unless they are specifically facing that kind of opponent, which would make their troops weaker against everyone else

 

[3141592]

I think that summons are correctly powered. By the time you get the really good creatures you need to be deep into the tech tree. So deep that other civilizations not going the magic rout should have had time to built shadows. When an archmage dies they are very very hard to replace, when a shadow dies, not so much so. Immortals can also be nice to defend against summons, and the main problem with using nothing but summons is that if the enemy gets too many units to be killed in one turn some of them can get very powerful from winning their first battle with summons.

All that said magic is still very powerful at that point in the game, as it should be.

 

[BeefontheBone]

If you're in a city, Rings of Warding are quite helpful. Possibly not so much in MP.