The Terrain Looks Great but can the Devs fix Map Generation?

[sTAPler27]

I was hoping we'd get less blocky continents that don't have arid deserts just a flat grassland tile or two away from tundra. I get that it must be hard to make a map generator that balances uniqueness with realism but mosaic blobs are starting to get a bit old. In those old games where squares were the tile shape I can get it but I feel like with 6 sides you can quite a bit more.

And a bit unrelated but if hills are gone rough and vegetated terrain should inherently provide production even before they have improvements.

Edit 1/24/2024: Just saw Van Bradley's video and I gotta give it to the devs, the Archipelago map type is pretty good, it feels more like a small continents map but name aside it looks good. I just hope they link some of these together for some nice looking continents.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm hoping Fractal will make a suitably variable coastline

 

[pokiehl]

Yeah, map generation is looking to be disappointing again…

As you said, the core land formation functions need work to be more interesting. I think we’ve had enough of the homogenous blobs with oddly geometrical features. Why can’t we have interesting landmasses with bays and promontories and stuff?

In addition, we just need more map scripts period. I wish they’d bring back stuff like Fantasy from Civ 4, or more cool ideas like Seven Seas (credit where its due: they hit it out of the park with that one).

Finally, the fact that map generation wasn’t expanded to let us explicitly choose separate scripts and settings for Distant Lands and Home Lands is just so disappointing. To me the game was practically begging for that.

(And on the topic of maps—can we please go back to Civ 5’s system of giving different continents their own textures? I’m also shocked that didn’t return for Civ 7…the Distant Lands/Home Lands separation is the perfect opportunity for this kind of detail)

 

[sTAPler27]

(And on the topic of maps—can we please go back to Civ 5’s system of giving different continents their own textures? I’m also shocked that didn’t return for Civ 7…the Distant Lands/Home Lands separation is the perfect opportunity for this kind of detail)

Wait they did? 5 was my intro to the franchise, so I don't think I was really paying that much attention to the fine details. Honestly I think that mechanic would fit this game way more given that visuals are far more readable in this game. I feel like their approach to distant lands could use some tweaks, unique resources would be cool or even just unique looking versions of the same resource, like sheep on one Continent Alpacas on the other.

 

[lo24681]

didn't 5 have stuff like Cattle on one continent and Bison on another?

 

[pokiehl]

Wait they did? 5 was my intro to the franchise, so I don't think I was really paying that much attention to the fine details.

Yep, Civ 5's maps were really cool in this regard:

Every landmass was assigned one of these 5 different art sets. It did so much to make the world feel immersive and varied. It would fit absolutely perfectly in with Civ 7.

Yes it's just visual, but these kind of details really enhance the experience.

 

[pokiehl]

didn't 5 have stuff like Cattle on one continent and Bison on another?

No, not exactly. In Civ 5 and 6, each resource is assigned different terrains and features that it can spawn on.

But in Civ 6, there was an added layer of complexity which is basically the same idea you're referring to: each named continent got assigned 4 unique luxury resources, so luxuries were different across the map. I would guess we're getting a similar system for Civ 7.

 

[sTAPler27]

Every landmass was assigned one of these 5 different art sets. It did so much to make the world feel immersive and varied. It would fit absolutely perfectly in with Civ 7.

I won't lie it is a bit subtle due to the graphics but it is noticable if you're looking for it. Civ 7 with the 15 years of graphical enhancements would be like the perfect synthesis of 5's art design and 7's detail

 

[Seek]

Completely agree with all sentiments in this thread!

My only real complaint with the terrain is that I’d prefer the vegetated tiles to be full and lush like in civ 5. It’s better here than in 6, but I’m not a fan of sparse trees on those tiles (when appropriate - of course some biomes don’t have dense forest). Perhaps a mod..

For mapscripts, I hope that someone updates the Plate Tectonics mod for civ 7, that was always my favorite.

 

[sTAPler27]

My only real complaint with the terrain is that I’d prefer the vegetated tiles to be full and lush like in civ 5. It’s better here than in 6, but I’m not a fan of sparse trees on those tiles (when appropriate - of course some biomes don’t have dense forest). Perhaps a mod..

Same but maybe its a technical issue given how detailed the models and textures are, having a lot of them could lag the game. Could work as a toggleable feature though like in most first person games but in this case it wouldn't serve a tactical advantage so boom, looks good and is balanced.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I was hoping we'd get less blocky continents that don't have arid deserts just a flat grassland tile or two away from tundra. I get that it must be hard to make a map generator that balances uniqueness with realism but mosaic blobs are starting to get a bit old. In those old games where squares were the tile shape I can get it but I feel like with 6 sides you can quite a bit more.

In real world it totally happens, like Chara Sands

 

[evonannoredars]

In real world it totally happens, like Chara Sands

That'd make a funny natural wonder lmao

 

[evonannoredars]

Yeah I agree with everything said here, the tops and bottoms of the continents look nice and variable but the sides are often so incredibly straight.

I'm hoping some of the other scripts look more interesting, I havent yet encountered a streamer who's played a script other than continents, and that they update them over time. The menu is also sorely missing information on what the scripts will look like imo, even if it's a vague graphic like in civ 6.

 

[Krikkit1]

Yeah I agree with everything said here, the tops and bottoms of the continents look nice and variable but the sides are often so incredibly straight.

I'm hoping some of the other scripts look more interesting, I havent yet encountered a streamer who's played a script other than continents, and that they update them over time. The menu is also sorely missing information on what the scripts will look like imo, even if it's a vague graphic like in civ 6.

Probably due to the Lands feature…the gap between them has to be narrow for early ships to make it across.

They could make it so ships take less damage each turn in the ocean so that they can take longer trips. That way you could have more variation.

 

[m_mus]

I adore the "Perfect World"-script for Civ6, hope this mod makes a comeback.

 

[Seek]

I adore the "Perfect World"-script for Civ6, hope this mod makes a comeback.

Yes! That one, too!

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I’d love some premade map packs. Obviously different sizes of True Start Earth maps, which we can expect down the line, but I’d also love it if Firaxis licensed the maps of Middle-earth (first three ages) and Westeros/Essos.

Actually, that just got me thinking…

A Númenor inspired “Sinking of Atlantis” game mode would be really cool. You’d start on a large island / small continent in Antiquity, and be forced to get a foothold on the Distant Lands in Exploration, as the Homeland will sink slowly below the waves as a unique Crisis leading into the Modern Age. Firaxis could even modify the Tech Tree a bit so that there’s something of a technological regression after the sinking of your original civilization

 

[evonannoredars]

Probably due to the Lands feature…the gap between them has to be narrow for early ships to make it across.

They could make it so ships take less damage each turn in the ocean so that they can take longer trips. That way you could have more variation.

The solution to that is make the islands inbetween also not be in a vertical column, and instead have them fill whatever space is left inbetween the continents (with a small ocean-only gap between the islands and continents, and imo a few empty areas to keep it more visually interesting than a mostly even spread of islands)

 

[chaosprophet]

Yeah, I agree on that. To point what I said before I think the problem is:

I think a possible problem with the current map generator is that it, even with different map types it seems like they divide the map in two big rectangles, side by side, with enough ocean between the two so you can't reach nor see anything on that side, and then generate a map type (continent, many continents, archipelago, etc) inside each, one for homeland and one for distant lands. While it would look more natural if the are for each of the two parts of the map could come in many different shapes.

And I wonder if a solution like the ones I suggested on this other post would be feasible and could help it:

Yeah, that example is what I mean with it seems like they separate the world map in two half sized rectangular maps for the distant lands and homelands, and generate a map in each.
View attachment 712795
It will probably work better when they make it so the division between two sizes can be something more randomized than an horizontal line allowing for more diverse half's for each part of the map to be generated inside like here?

View attachment 712798
View attachment 712799
View attachment 712800
Of course these aren't perfect same amount of space as I'm not good at this but shouldn't be hard to make a program that generate many of these with same amount of tiles in each half.

I'm not sure how complicate it could end up being, though. For example, I can see their map generators being made to work in rectangles as that was how every civ map always been.

 

[sTAPler27]

Probably due to the Lands feature…the gap between them has to be narrow for early ships to make it across.

They could make it so ships take less damage each turn in the ocean so that they can take longer trips. That way you could have more variation.

That or add more islands in between, I feel like map generation always lacks a good ammount of them