The three eras: Thoughts about the world after the atomic bomb

[sTAPler27]

The only problem is RL accuracy.

You can conquer the world as the Shawnee in game. The options are based on real cultures but your gameplay isn't limited to what they did irl

 

[aelf]

Sure, but if a culture's identity and entire raison d'etre is defined by being a single city, it's really doesn't make sense to turn it into an empire in game. It's like if Troy is a civ.

 

[Uberfrog]

I personally don't prefer the 4th Age Civ suggestion as the regional alliance like EU, ASEAN or Pan-Africanism, because we don't have IRL Europe or Africa in the game. When you are French Empire and there are some western rivals like Germany, what's the point that you become EU without them? Or when you are Buganda which is the sole African Civ in base game, what's the point that you become Pan-Africanism Civ? Your continent may even not be the Europe or Africa in high chance.

If things like the EU are implemented they should be extensions of the diplomacy system.

100% agreed on this, by the way. Regional alliances are not equivalent with civilisations. It does not reflect current day politics and would feel as though it was diluting what made your previous civilisations quite unique.

The modern world is clearly not one of Orwellian super-states.

 

[marius_kaparius]

Maybe they’ll just extend it by one or two technologies as time goes by? If their core philosophy was that people should finish more games how does adding a 4th age help that?

 

[gdr_willter]

Maybe they’ll just extend it by one or two technologies as time goes by? If their core philosophy was that people should finish more games how does adding a 4th age help that?

I think the point is not "Finishing the whole match through every Age in game", but "Reaching the designed goal of the game". Many Civ matchs ended as "Okay I enjoyed it enough" without any specific Victory. FXS told that they want to solve this.

We have single Age match option already in Civ 7 base game. And it has possibility to become more specific setting of Start Age and End Age, like 2 Ages match of Exploration~Modern. They still provide the designed goals for these kind of shorter match.

 

[Krikkit1]

100% agreed on this, by the way. Regional alliances are not equivalent with civilisations. It does not reflect current day politics and would feel as though it was diluting what made your previous civilisations quite unique.

The modern world is clearly not one of Orwellian super-states.

I wouldn't have most of the civs in a 4th age as "alliance states" but the EU might be a good exception, allowing Europe to be Blobbed up. (perhaps have EU Traditions based on the different states or regions that make it up, Southern, Eastern, Northern, Central, Western)

 

[untitledjuan]

The modern world is clearly not one of Orwellian super-states.

Even if we think that the post-modern/contemporary world is special and deserves an additional 4th Age, that's probably not the case, it is actually quite similar and a direct continuation of the preceeding "Modern Age".

We tend to think that our times are particularly special, or with "faster development", but that might not be actually the case. (It's rather weird to claim we are in an extremely advanced era when we are actively destroying our planet, for instance, or still having an almost bipolar USA vs. huge communist state (in this case China) global order.

We might think our "current age" is special because we live in it. Sure, it has a lot of new and innovative things, but the Zeitgeist of our ere is pretty much the same as that of the 20th century.

It will be up to future (deep in the future) historians to retrospectively decide if we have begun a "new Era", but we are still to early in our time to claim that we are not still part of a "Modern Era".

 

[moondog385]

1. Ancient Era (4000 BC ~ 1000 BC)
2. Classical Era (1000 BC ~ 500 AD)
3. Medieval Era (500 ~ 1350)
4. Renaissance Era (1350 ~ 1725)
5. Industrial Era (1725 ~ 1890)
6. Modern Era (1890 ~ 1945)
7. Atomic Era (1945 ~ 1995)
8. Information Era (1995 ~ 2020)
9. Future Era (2020 ~ 2050)

Years Per Turn
Antiquity --40--> Classical -- 25 --> Medieval --20--> Rennaisance --10--> Industrial --5--> Modern --2--> Atomic --1--> Information --0.5--> Future

These are Civ 6's eras, The Antiquity Age is roughly the first two ages and covers 4500 years, Exploration Age covers the next 2 and spans 1225 years, and the Modern Age covers the next two and spans 220 years. The Modern Ageends over a century before the game even ends, modern does not necesarily mean present. There is already a precedent for the incriments of time to decrease as the ages continue. A Contemporary/Information age in 7 would fill the roll of the final 3 ages in 6. You could argue those aren't the most fun parts of the game but that's the whole point of Civ 7's age system, to make snowballing less boring and to make it so each age feels unique.

I know that’s how eras worked in Civ 6, but Ages are a totally different thing and they need to make them entirely unique from a gameplay and flavor perspective from the previous Age.

 

[Uberfrog]

I know that’s how eras worked in Civ 6, but Ages are a totally different thing and they need to make them entirely unique from a gameplay and flavor perspective from the previous Age.

I think what people are missing is also that we need to have a sense of technological and cultural progression within an age.

In that way the shift from stone to bronze to iron, or medieval to renaissance to exploration, or industrial to modern to atomic can happen organically as you unlock new units and infrastructure. The wider Ages then only serve to remark different game mechanics.

 

[hoplite_fan]

Not sure I agree. I mean, warfare always builds on top of itself. The fact post-1950 there's a greater emphasis on air power (first glimpsed in WW2), stand-off firepower (missiles) and the nascent appearance of drones and cyberwarfare doesn't remove the importance of tanks and boots on the ground. The infantryman has been critical since the dawn of history, artillery has existed in one form or another since antiquity, and tanks are an expansion and an evolution of the age-old concept of cavalry. They wouldn't go away.

The main issue with introducing a fourth era is the civilization switching aspect of it, considering the number of civs which reach their current form in the prior period. At least those would need to be retained, perhaps enhanced/updated on top to compete with potential new challengers introduced at this late stage (i.e. India, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, etc.). It remains to be seen whether this is compatible with the devs' design for Civ7.

One thing they can add for modern warfare are "manhattan project" like building options for the construction of many combat units, like for example:

- Manhattan Project (Unlocks the construction of the atomic bomb, it unlocks the ICBM project)

- ICBM project (Unlocks the construction of ICBMs)

- Third generation fighter jets (It unlocks the construction of 3rd generation fighter jets and aerial radar station plane units, unlocks fourth generation fighter jet building option)

- Fourth generation fighter jets (It unlocks the construction of 4th generation fighter jets and stealth bomber units, unlocks fifth generation fighter jet building option)

- Fifth generation fighter jets (It unlocks the construction of 5th generation fighter jets, unlocks sixth generation fighter jet building option)

- Sixth generation fighter jets (It unlocks the construction of 6th generation fighter jets)

- Second generation air defense units (It unlocks the construction of Mobile SAM mk.2 and mobile radar stations units, unlocks third generation air defense building option)

- Third generation air defense units (It unlocks the construction of Mobile SAM mk3. and mobile satellite jammer land units)

- Nuclear submarine project (It unlocks the construction of nuclear submarine units, it is NOT an upgrade to the submarine unit)

- Satellite constellation (You can remove the fog of war in one area of the map and improve the accuracy of ranged attacks in areas without an active mobile satellite jammer land unit)

- Early-warning systems (Enemies missiles have a higher chance of interception in friendly territory on the same continuous plot of land to the capital, they are built on military districts, they can be attacked and repaired like other buildings)

- Supersonic missiles project (It unlocks the construction of three kinds of supersonic missiles, the first is designed to hit land-based units, the second to hit non-stealth naval units and the third to to hit city infrastructures . It unlocks the hypersonic missile project)

- Hypersonic missiles project (It unlocks the construction of three kinds of hypersonic missiles, the first is designed to hit land-based units, the second to hit non-stealth naval units and the third to to hit city infrastructures)

As for modern units that require nothing but technology unlock, these are my suggestions:

- MANPADs (support unit, has to be attached to one meele land or naval unit, increases combat strenght again against aerial units, allows meele units to destroy observation ballon or drones attached to meele units on a directly adjacent plot, can intercept only one unit per turn within one tile range, cannot occupy the same plot as ATGMs or MBT units)

- ATGMs (support unit, has to be attached to one meele land or naval unit, increases combat strenght against armored units, cannot occupy the same plot as MANPADs)

- Observation Balloon (support unit, has to be attached to one meele land or naval unit, will be destroyed on any combat turn, upgradable to Reconnaissance drone)

- Reconnaissance drone (support unit, has to be attached to one meele land or naval unit, can occupy the same plot as the loitering drone)

- Loitering drone (expendable support unit, has to be attached to one meele land or naval unit, can be passively expended to increase combat strenght in meele combat turn or actively expanded to attack one enemy meele in an direct adjacent plot, can occupy the same plot as the reconnaissance drone)

 

[hoplite_fan]

One mechanics that can be added for the third era is the "unit construction permits", whereas, once you have completed building any of these manhattan project like building options, you get "unit construction permits" you can negotiate away with other civilizations in diplomacy

For obvious reasons, the only "unit construction permits" you cannot negotiate away are those for atomic bomb, ICBMs, and satellites

Another mechanics that can be added for the third era is the "unit transfer", whereas through diplomacy you can trade away any unit, so long as the other party doesn't have either the technology of the "unit construction permit" to build the same unit himself . They will get the eureka associated with the techology required to build the unit or a production boost of 20% to the manhattan project like building project, of course

If they get the same unit through another diplomatic agreement with the same civilization, they get another 20% production boost to the manhattan project like building project . If they get the same unit from another civilization, they do not get any production boost

You can trade away "unit construction permits" you got from another civ with a third-party, but that will incur a minor or major diplomatic penalty depending on whether the original owner of the unit construction permit and the third-party are friends with each other or not

Of course, you can use spies to snatch "unit construction permits" but that will incur a major diplomatic penalty with its original owner

If you let the "unit construction permit" you got from another civ be snatched by spies, there will be diplomatic penalties as well

You can use spies to snatch the production boost of 20% you would normally get by diplomacy, be wary of diplomatic penalties

 

[hoplite_fan]

Air Interception mechanics can be changed as follows:


- Anti-air gun units protects all units within 1 tile from attacks by air units only once per turn.


- Mobile SAM mk.1 protects all units within 2 tile from attacks by air units twice per turn, has the "unidirectional interception" mode, which allows them to protect one line of three tiles from attacks and intercept one stealth plane flying over it

- Mobile SAM mk.2 protects all units within 2 tile from attacks by air units twice per turn, can protect the same unit or city thrice per turn, can target enemy aerial units doing reconnaissance mission within six tiles, has the "unidirectional interception" mode, which allows them to protect one line of five tiles from attacks and intercept one stealth plane flying over it

- Mobile SAM mk.3 protects all units within 2 tile from attacks by air units twice per turn, can protect the same unit or city thrice per turn, can target enemy aerial units doing reconnaissance mission within seven tiles, has the "unidirectional interception" mode, which allows them to protect one line of six tiles and intercept two stealth planes or two supersonic missiles flying over it

- Mobile SAM mk.4 protects all units within 2 tile from attacks by air units twice per turn, can protect the same unit or city thrice per turn, can target enemy aerial units doing reconnaissance mission within eight tiles, has the "unidirectional interception" mode, which allows them to protect two lines of six tiles and intercept stealth planes or supersonic missiles or hypersonic missiles flying over it


- Aircraft fighter units type have the "dogfight" combat option, which is the aerial counterpart of "meele combat"


- Aircraft fighter units type have the "patrol" combat option, which will make protect a designated region of the map from aircraft units


- Starting from the third generation of fighter jets, they have the "standoff" combat option, whereas they fly to one tile, and perform a ranged attack on another tile up to five tiles away, if they fly on a tile protected by an aircraft figher unit they will engage in a dogfight, if they fly on a tile protected by an anti-air land unit they will be intercepted, and the standoff mission is cancelled


- Anti-air land units cannot be directly targeted by aircraft fighter units, unless these perform one interception mission or were engaged in either meele or ranged combat on the same turn


- There are promotions to mitigate the damage anti-air land units receive from being directly targeted by aircraft fighter units


- Aerial radar station plane units can peform "reconnaissance missions" on a selected group of tiles, which increases the attack range of "standoff" ranged attacks by two tiles


- Mobile radar stations increases the range of interception of anti-aircraft land units by two tiles, and the range of unidirectional interceptions by three tiles

 

[Baudshaw]

100% agreed on this, by the way. Regional alliances are not equivalent with civilisations. It does not reflect current day politics and would feel as though it was diluting what made your previous civilisations quite unique.

The modern world is clearly not one of Orwellian super-states.

Perhaps not, but in a speculative future, it's not a hard thing to imagine. Plus, the very definition of civilization changed over time. From a loose collection of peoples to modern industrialized states.

 

[hoplite_fan]

Air Interception mechanics can be changed as follows:

[...]

- Both fighter aircrafts and bomber aircrafts can perform "ground attack" missions, whereas they will fly to one tile and attack units or the city on the same tile . Bomber aircraft units' ground attacks are of the same category as siege attacks

- Stealth bombers can peform stand-off missions and only be spotted after they attack . If they fly on a tile protected by an anti-aircraft unit on unidirectional interception mode, they will be intercepted like a normal aircraft unit

- Stand-off ranged attacks will have a 80% damage penalty on land or naval units that were not marked in "reconnaissance" missions by another aircraft

- All aircraft units can perform "reconnaissance" missions, whereas they fly to one tile and marks at least two land or naval units about five tiles away, so that they can be targeted by stand-off ranged attacks

- Mobile satellite jammers land units will protected adjacent stationary units from being marked by enemy reconnaissance missions

- Sixth generation fighter jets can perform "stratosphere reconnaissance" missions on water and ocean tiles, which reveals all non-stealth naval and embarked units on a radius of 20 tiles

 

[sTAPler27]

I know that’s how eras worked in Civ 6, but Ages are a totally different thing and they need to make them entirely unique from a gameplay and flavor perspective from the previous Age.

That's exactly the point i'm making. With the game's age system you can do the last 2.5 Eras justice because there's still plenty of room to add new mechanics in a new 4th age.

 

[hoplite_fan]

One thing they can add for modern warfare are "manhattan project" like building options for the construction of many combat units, like for example:

[...]

The unit construction permit lasts for 50 turns, it will be renewed by another 30 turns if you build the unit in question

If it expires, you will have to build the unit construction permit project all over again, if you have that unit on the map and relocate it to the city which it is being built, you get a 80% production boost

If you delete the unit, you will get one relic of it which you can store in a museum, it will not provide any bonus, but it will provide the same 80% production boost

 

[Uberfrog]

Perhaps not, but in a speculative future, it's not a hard thing to imagine. Plus, the very definition of civilization changed over time. From a loose collection of peoples to modern industrialized states.

But we’re not talking about a speculative future, we’re talking about world history post 1960!