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The Unluckiest Lucky Start

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Aabraxan, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. 3Davideo

    3Davideo Chieftain

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    About those workers:

    That's very odd. It seems that should happen in only non-industrial democracies. Normal workers would have 2 worker-turns, increased to 2*1.5=3 turns. Slaves would go to 1*1.5=1 (rounded down, sadly). Are you sure carthage is industrial, and you are not a democracy?
     
  2. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I know it's odd. That's why I commented on it. I couldn't get it to work out, either. I counted them as I went, because I was trying to get my railing gangs sorted out. When doing that, I try to avoid mixing natives and slaves, so I move all of one type in a stack, then all of the other. It was:
    Worker
    Worker
    Worker
    Slave
    Slave
    Slave

    I even counted the stack after the rails completed. If any of the BetterPlayers out there can shed some light on this, I'd sure appreciate it.

    I am certain on both counts. Check the pics on the economy. I'm a republic. As for industrious, I opened up the Civilopedia and it says Carthage is industrious. Besides, grasslands only needed 4 workers to road in 1 turn, not the usual 6.
     
  3. Headbanger

    Headbanger Warlord

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    SO are you still playing this sucker?
     
  4. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Absolutely; just a little pressed for playing time right now.
     
  5. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Chapter 13: Neither Lucky Nor Exciting

    Ok. It's been a while since I looked at this, so for my own information, I'm going to do a quick preflight assessment:

    Science:
    Medicine is 6 turns out at 60% science. That's the fastest I can get it without doing deficit research. I don't have electricity yet, so I'll have to get that before I can grab the ToE. Time to start a prebuild, I guess. I'm up Steam Power on everyone except France. However, I'm at war with them, so I may be up on them, too.

    Economy:
    557 in the bank, +57 gpt. By comparison, the other civs have:
    Iroquois: 60
    India: 148
    Hittites: 0
    France: ?

    Diplomacy & Trade:
    The best offer out there for Steam is from Hiawatha. He's willing to give his WM, 60 gold +120 gpt for Steam. Ghandi's willing to give me WM, 140 gold +20 gpt for Steam. Mursilis will give me gems, dyes, maps and 83 gpt. I was reluctant to trade Steam around, but it looks like I can make a significant profit by doing so. I'll revisit this after my preflight.

    I've got peace with everyone, 6 turns remaining with India (well, 4 on the PT, but 6 on an iron sale that I made), & 20 turns left with both Hiawatha and Mursilis.

    I remain a republic, but am currently faced with:
    India: Democracy
    Hittites: Democracy
    Iros: Democracy
    France: Democracy


    Culture:
    Ha!
    My best city, Utica, has 1697. Salamanca has 2849.
    My civilization has 4238. The Iroquois have 8862.

    Military:
    As compared to the other civs:
    vs. India: strong
    vs. Hittites: strong
    vs. Iros: strong
    Vs. France: strong

    I am allowed 112 units, and I have 145, so I'm not bad over the limit. The units that I do have consist of:

    11 Settlers
    37 Workers
    86 Slaves
    1 Horseman
    8 Longbows
    6 Muskets
    22 Cavalry
    30 Cannons
    3 Frigates
    2 Galleons
    3 Armies
    7 Numidial Mercs
    9 Medieval Infantry
    6 Crusaders

    I have 86 cities, but lots of work to be done, so I need to peel off some more workers, or buy some.

    And we're off!

    First stop, trading screen. Let's sell some Steam. It looks like the Iros have 2 sources of coal, but I'll just have to live with that. Besides, that land is only on loan to them and I can use some help in railing it.

    First sale is the Iros:
    Spoiler :


    Then on to the Indians:
    Spoiler :


    Finally, the Hittites:
    Spoiler :


    The French still refuse to acknowledge my envoy. All of the trading allows me to crank science up to 100% and shave 2 turns off of Medicine, which is now due in 4 at +59 gpt.

    I rush a market in Tingis so that I can begin my ToE prebuild. It cost me 248 gold, but Tingis is size 6 already and I'm going to need lots of happy juice by the time ToE is done.

    Tingis completes its market on the IBT, and it is only then that I realize that it doesn't have a library. I decide to skip the library for now, in favor of the ToE prebuild. I'm already very strong technologically and very weak culturally, so a few extra turns with a library isn't going to make a big difference.

    In 1355 AD, I realize that the Hittites have Free Artistry. They have what appears to be a monopoly.

    On the IBT after 1355, the Military Academy is completed in Leptis Minor. Woohoo! Now we're talkin'!

    In 1360, the French complete Smith's Trading Company, so I guess I'll have to find another prebuild.

    After 1365, Medicine comes in. Naturally, Electricity is next and I'll immediately follow that with Scientific Method. On that same IBT, the French complete JS Bach's Cathedral. Jeez, that's two wonders back to back. I hope this doesn't short-circuit my prebuild.

    Drat! At the end of 1370, Ghandi comes around looking to renew the peace treaty. Not that I'm itching to go stomp him, but I hate it when the AI pops up with this. I can't promise that I'm really going to want to stay at peace for 20 turns. . . I accept the deal anyway.

    DAGNABBIT! IN 1370, The Iroquois complete Newton's University. That's 3, count 'em 3 AI wonders on 3 consecutive turns. Thank goodness I don't have many shields invested in Newton's, eh? I can switch to a library (due in 1) with no loss of shields. I'm tempted to trade Medicine for Free Artistry, but I'm a-feared that I'll just get caught in another cascade. I switch Tingis to a library and rush the market in Leptis Minor. I'll finish that off and start an army prebuild.

    The year 1375 markes a banner year for my empire: I make peace w/ Joan, getting 50 gold, 5 gpt, and both of her maps in the bargain. The strategic railnet is about 90% laid, so I can begin to consolidate a few defensive stacks into one and begin railing the core. And, finally, in 1375, I have settled the edges of my continent. After typing this, I discover one tile that is on my continent, but not under my control. I put an army on it until a settler arrives.

    At the end of 1380 AD, I renegotiate my iron deal with Ghandi, though he hasn't much more to give. It goes from 4 gpt to 5, and I get him to throw in his WM and TM.

    Also in 1380, I settle the last tile on my continent, which was not under my control. From this point forward, if they're on my continent, they're on my land.

    Not the most exciting update, but there just wasn't much going on. There are only so many pictures of worker management that y'all really want to see. However, as of 1380 AD, the strategic railnet is laid, and the empire is beginning to take shape again (following the palace jump). I've got some Galleon builds going on, so by the time my peace treaties run out, I will probably be ready to invade one of the island SE of my continent to prepare it as a "stepping off point" for invading the other continent.

    Spoiler :
     
  6. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    Do you have your Preferences set to Always Renegotiate Deals turned on? That sort of thing drives me up the wall, so I keep that preference set to off.

    Sounds like you got a lot of consolidation done this turn in preparation for more excitement to come. :D
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I'm pretty sure that I have "Always Renegotiate Deals" off, but they still come around once in a while to renegotiate. And yeah, the lasts update was a lot of consolidation and maintenance. Laying rails, building infrastructure in the new core, abandoning and resettling, etc. When I left off, I had set a few loaded galleons to sail, but I might turn them around. IIRC, I left off at 1 turn from Electricity and have my prebuild for ToE started, so I might just wait for that to come in before invading. Artillery & infantry beats cannons and muskets any day.
     
  8. Headbanger

    Headbanger Warlord

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    If your peace involved GPT they will always renegotiate.
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Maybe that's it. I don't recall off the top of my head if the PT involved gpt, but it wouldn't come as a huge surprise if I'd done that.
     
  10. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

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    great job so far. You seem to have a problem with corruption, so you should focus on building more courthouses and police stations. Also, naval work is definitely going to be important now if you plan to invade the other continent. You may want to wait until you have marines to do that.
     
  11. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Welcome to The Unluckiest Lucky Start, bunny_lard. Thank you and glad to have you along.

    Corruption . . . What can I say? It's corruption. It's there. I'm sure I'll build a few more courthouses while restructuring my empire, but I have to admit that I very rarely build police stations. Right now, I'm really more concerned with getting my new core and my specialist farms set up more than anything, and that means lots and lots of settlers and workers.

    Marines? I almost never even research Amphibious War, much less build marines. I don't have the map up right now, but I don't recall any 1-tile island, so I doubt I'll need marines. I'm planning on using the ToE to grab Replaceable Parts and probably something to move me towards Combustion. Once I get artillery, infantry and the ability to move my 4-unit Cav armies, I think it'll be all right.
     
  12. Headbanger

    Headbanger Warlord

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    Marines are infinatley helpful on one square cities.
     
  13. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    For 1-tile islands, it's either Berzerkers or Marines. Obviously, I won't have the former, so if I find any 1-tilers, I'll have to build the latter.
     
  14. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

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    you don't really NEED marines, but it's always nice to have multiple tactical options :) plus, wouldn't it be cool to assault the last non-carthaginian city on earth by land, air, AND sea? :) w/e though, I'm just a reader. Oh and BTW, you weren't kidding about squishing your cities together. I saw the minimap and thought you were playing on a huge sized map. :lol:
     
  15. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Yeah, I guess that'd be cool, but it would also mean one more tech between me and Modern Armor . . .

    No, I wasn't kidding. When you get to those nice, green specialist farms up north, I've got them shoe-horned in pretty tight. I've even abandoned and resettled a couple just so I could squeeze in a couple of extra farms.
     
  16. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

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    well I guess you could skip it, get MA and w/e else you want and then come back for it. Maybe even advanced flight could be some fun.
     
  17. whatever_du

    whatever_du Chieftain

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    Nice Story going on! I just read the whole thing! First I'm a little behind you in HI :p I just managed to win 2 games at Monarch but I'm still using auto worker and clearly not the same cities settings as you are. I try to get 3-6 tiles in ''conflicts'' per city. If you want to comment on that or explain the ''Why'', that would be apreciated! I also clearly don't take as much time that you on each turns (only the Workers things, but I'M working on that on my 2nd emperor game right now, you can find the begining of my game in ''Story and tales''.

    I would also like you to explain the ''Specialists farms'' that you're talking about. I'D guess it's just having cities with lots of specialists but how do you get your population Up since there are no specialists that provides food...

    Nice going anyway ! Learned a lot just by reading this! (I't been nearly 2 hours now :p)
     
  18. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Both Amphib War and Adv Flight are optional techs, but who knows? I always enjoy a little "pointy stick research."

    @whatever_du:
    Thanks and welcome to the Unluckiest Lucky Start. I saw your story, with 3 culture flips (is that right?) and thought: "Geez. Maybe mine was only the Second Unluckiest Lucky Start."

    I don't think I understand what you mean by this:

    What is "HI?" and which cities settings do you mean?

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "3-6 tiles in 'conflicts' per city," either. If you're talking about overlapping tiles, which could be worked by more than one city, well, here's my theory: In my core, powerhouse metros that work all 21 tiles would be nice, but nothing gets above size 12 before hospitals (or Shakespeare's Theater), anyway. So even core cities need only 12 tiles up until the Industrial Age, at the earliest. Add to that the fact that Sanitation is an optional tech. Chances are that I won't research it and even if I do get it, I won't build more than a couple of hospitals. I'd rather have 4 size-10 cities than 2 size-20s, even though they'll work the same number of tiles.

    Out in the semi-core, my cities will be even smaller than in the core, as they'll be peeling off workers and settlers, in addition to artillery. Certainly no need for more than 9 tiles for them.

    In the farmlands, you asked:

    I pack specialist farms in CxC. Water everything in sight, lay rails, build no improvements. Bede has an article in the War Academy entitled The Role of The Specialist Citizen, which is very helpful. The basic idea is water and rail every food-producing tile in sight, and use the extra food to hire specialists. The key is that food is not affected by corruption, and neither is the output of specialists. The ones in this game aren't fully set up yet, but I think they'll be quite productive once I've finished railing and growing them.

    Here's an example: Grassland provides 2 food. Irrigate it & it provides 3. Add a rail, and that makes 4. Two citizens working two of those tiles make 8 food. Add the city center (2 food, non-agri) and there's 10 food. Now hire 3 specialists. Now you have a pop-5 specialist farm that with zero food surplus & zero growth. In Conquests, with no improvements, that one farm will produce 9 beakers per turn (or 6 uncorrupted gold), cost no upkeep, provide unit support of 1 (under Republic) and only use 2 tiles. Make sense?
     
  19. whatever_du

    whatever_du Chieftain

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    Thanks. Sorry for my english by the way, it is, and will stay, my second language!

    HI was what I tought was a funny way to talk about your skills as a player ''Human Inteligence'' .. AI ...

    And for the Conflicts, I was Indeed talking about the overlapping Tiles, and you gave me a pretty good answer on that so Thanks.

    I understand the Specialist Farm also, I'll have to try that, combined with the nearer cities it just might help. I didn't know that food and specialists output were not affected by corruption.

    As For my game, I'll be able to build more cities following those advice. I'll give it a try this weekend and give you feedback about that!
     
  20. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    It's still better than my French!

    Ah, ok. Sailed right over my head.

    Glad I was able to help. Bear in mind that specialist output is also unaffected by the multiplier buildings, like libraries and banks.

    Good luck!
     

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