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The Unluckiest Lucky Start

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Aabraxan, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

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    @ Aabraxan:

    Wow, they used both of THEIR weaknesses to YOUR advantage. :lol:

    Inability to successfully invade another continent + lack of intelligence enough to attack armies = pwnage.
     
  2. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Well, I haven't looked at this since the last update, but IIRC, I have two 4-unit cav armies and one 3-unit cav army. The 4-unit armies are marooned at home until transports, but I can ship the 3-unit overseas and then load another cav onto it. And I'm also building some muskets that I'll then upgrade to infantry.
     
  3. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Great story, quite entertaining! Still aways off from being caught up (made it through the first four pages) but it looks like you're well on the way to victory.
     
  4. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Welcome aboard, Quintillus! Glad to have you with us. I haven't had time to post in COTW much, but I've been (more or less) following it. You must be very pleased with almost 60,000 views!
     
  5. 3Davideo

    3Davideo Chieftain

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    Quint! What are you doing over in this thread? Get back to writing that quad-date! :whipped:
     
  6. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

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    yah, ur gonna have to PM chieftess to get ur thread re-opened quint. It got closed thanks to apollo's spammage. Speaking of which, whens the next update for you, aabraxan?
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I'd like to say it will be soon, but I'm not entirely sure. I tried to squeeze in a little Civ time this weekend, but just couldn't pull it off. Didn't even get time to open the save. Hopefully, I'll get an update up either this coming weekend or the next.
     
  8. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Chapter 15: My luck holds out

    1460 AD: A quick rundown:
    • 672 gold, +14 gpt
    • ToE in 13
    • RP in 4 at 50% science/10% lux (I could get it in 3 at -148 gpt, but I want some cash for upgrades to arty and infantry)
    • I'm up on everyone by Medicine and Electricity and down from just about everyone by Free Artistry and Nationalism and the Iros are the sole possessors of Industrialization.
    • Palace prebuild is 32 turns out, and my first hand-built army goes live in 18.
    • I've got my own continent and the AI stinks at naval invasions.
    • 108 Cities, 121 native workers and 86 slaves
    The sheer number of workers and work to be done makes these turns very tedious and time-consuming.

    In 1465, the Hittites begin Universal Suffrage, so they've finally got Industrialization.

    And in 1470, life takes a turn I didn't expect.



    I also discover, in that same year, that Kyoto has waaay, waaay more food than it needs. At size 12, it's producing 44 fpt. As it's only 62% corrupt, I've got to move some workers down here to adjust the landscaping. By the end of the turn, I've got it trimmed to 30 fpt. I think I can get it trimmed to 24 fpt in the next turn.

    And then Joanie wants to renegotiate . . .



    This may be one of those rare instances where I actually make an MPP. Here's what I'm considering, lurkers: Maybe I should make an MPP with Hiawatha, then attack Mursilis? Then France would attack me and Hiawatha would have to attack France. Then Mursilis will have to attack Hiawatha. Then I'd have to attack Mursilis. Hmmm, this is beginning to sound like fun . . .

    In 1475, at long last, Replaceable Parts finally, finally, finally arrives. Look out arty, here we come!

    I decide to do some investigatin' before I decide: (a) what to research next; and (b) whether to begin trading Medicine or Electricity. ToE is 10 turns out. Here's what I find:

    Spoiler :


    OK. So there's not much danger that the Iros will put me in a cascade that will cost me the ToE. What about the Hittites?

    Spoiler :


    OK. Off to the trading table. After weighing the various offers, I deal with Mursilis first:

    Spoiler :


    The only thing that you can't see in the screenshot is that I got Mursi's WM and TM as well.

    Now that I've devalued Medicine, I go see Hiawatha:

    Spoiler :


    As usual, the AI clings to Nationalism as though its life depended on it. Just out of curiosity, I ask Hiawatha what he wants for Nationalism:

    Spoiler :


    No deal, thank you very little.

    I switch a couple of builds, including the army build at Leptis Minor, to factories. My science farms are coming along nicely. At 0% science, using only scientists, I could get atomic theory in ~30 turns. However, given that I'm about to grab ToE, that would be a waste of beakers. But I can't quite stomach going 0 research, so I switch to Lone Scientist. Atomic Theory in 50, but at ~+500 gpt. Mind you, that's after trimming my military down so that I'm only ~60 units over the limit.

    By 1480, I'm having trouble finding tiles on my continent that still need to be chopped, cleared, roaded, railed, irrigated or mined, so I begin joining native workers back to cities.

    So as of 1480 AD, I've got 24 gold (spent it all on upgrades), +546 gpt, Atomic Theory in 50, ToE in 9, and a few factories coming in in the next 10-20 turns.

    And, of course, here's my glorious empire:
    Spoiler :


    And here are my victims, errr, neighbors. :rolleyes: (Or at least part of the area I'm planning to annex.)

    Spoiler :
     
  9. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter King

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    Wow. I don't know if it's the different tiles, the intense closeness of your empire, or the giant fortress-like constructions all over the place, but looking at your empire gives me a headache.
     
  10. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Haha, the zoomed-out map does look a little strange, especially in the north where the cities are as tight together as possible. I like this terrain set much better than the one used in the beginning of the story, though. Easier on the eyes.

    I like the Mutual-Protection-Pact-of-War plan. Sounds fun. And detrimental to your rivals.

    Long-term, is Space Race a possibility? I know you said you plan to annex your neighbors, but you don't seem to be building a whole lot of military recently - rather controling military costs. It would be the first story in quite a while to end up in space.
     
  11. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Heck, you guys can only see the edges of my farms in the last screenshot of my empire. North and west of the edge of the screenshot, there's lots of grassland and I've shoehorned 'em in as tight as I could.

    I suppose I could do a SS victory. I haven't looked at my victory conditions lately, but I'm pretty sure it's enabled. Quint is right in that I haven't built a lot of military lately. I did get a few muskets built for upgrade, along with a few cavs and cannons, but I've been so busy restructuring stuff from the palace jump that infrastructure and workers had to take priority. Now that I have RP and my workers are almost finished with this continent, I can get back to building military. I didn't take an exact count last night, but I should have ~25-30 cavs, 3 armies (2 of which can't go anywhere until transports), maybe 8 infantry, a few crusaders (kept because they're elites), and maybe a dozen or so artillery. I disbanded some cannons to speed up building factories. If I do decide to go with a SS victory, there's no need to invade the other continent at all. The AI civs are pretty much in a holding pattern, so there's no danger of a runaway. Besides, once I get factories built, I'll have plenty of places for SS part prebuilds. The only real problem with going for SS is the player. I rather enjoy knocking down towns. Oh, and I think I counted 5 galleons just waiting to be loaded.

    The MPP between the France and the Hittites complicates matters somewhat. If you look at the screenshot of AI territory, there's a flat alley just W of Centralia. I'm considering planting a city on the hill at the end of it and capturing the hills on either side. Then I could just sit back and chew up AI units as they come down the alley. It'd be a nice little kill zone, but I'm not sure it's necessary. If I want to MPP w/ Hiawatha, obviously, I won't be declaring on him immediately. Maybe I should MPP with Mursilis and Joan and then DOW Hiawatha, plant my city in the kill zone and watch French and Hittite troops flood Iroquois land.
     
  12. 3Davideo

    3Davideo Chieftain

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    I vote for starting a big AI vs. AI conflict but not really getting much involved yourself. While those countries are whacking each other, you are getting increasingly built up, rich, and advanced.
     
  13. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Chapter 16: Someone decides to make me lucky! . . . (sort of)

    As luck would have it, I actually did find a little more time to squeeze in another update, so, without further ado:

    1480 AD -- Ghandi shows up, wanting to renew the iron deal at 4 gpt. Given that I'm about to wreak havoc on trade routes, I decline. He'll just have to find his own iron. There's still an (outside) chance that I'll need my trade rep later.

    Leptis Minor finishes its factory. Even with the army, it's only netting 18 spt, so I may have to juggle some tiles.

    Right after the last chapter, there was some discussion as to how tightly I've packed cities. Here's a zoomed out shot of my farms:

    Spoiler :


    If you're still curious, here's a zoomed in shot:

    Spoiler :


    Over the course of 1485, I join approximately 50 native workers back to cities. Between that and disbanding a few units, I've got 0 unit support, and my specialist farms are more or less mature.

    I putter along, rejoining workers, developing infrastructure and the like, when I notice in about 1490 that AI ships keep scouting along my coastline. They're looking for a place to land. Sure enough, in 1495, I get this:

    Spoiler :


    Unfortunately, as you can see here:

    Spoiler :


    I've got 11 turns of peace with Mursilis left. Even though he's not going to conquer my empire by depositing one lone cavalry on my shore, he is sitting right next to an empty town with rails running everywhere. I give him the boot, and he says they'll depart, but his unit is still there. Makes me jumpy. So I ship in some infantry to hold down anything that the One Lone Hittite Cavalry could reach and settle a couple of cav armies nearby.

    You know, this just be the opportunity to make the (what did Quint call it?) "Mutual-Protection-Pact-of-War." I go get an MPP from Hiawatha. He even throws in his maps. What a guy!

    Spoiler :


    Sure enough, Mursi decides to get froggy:

    Spoiler :


    So now, diplomacy looks like this:

    Spoiler :


    Not only has a free-for-all started on the other continent, I get war happiness! :D

    And, of course:

    Spoiler :


    Now, unfortunately, I realize that I've got a fly in the ointment. I still had 15 turns left on my PT with France and my MPP forced me to DOW them. I had hoped to avoid that rep hit by having them DOW me, but that didn't work out. Peace may be a little more expensive now. Ah, well. C'est la vie.

    In 1520, I finally found my first city on the other continent: New Hippo 2

    Spoiler :


    That same turn, Tonawanda falls:

    Spoiler :


    It's the first French city to go. Razing nets me 4 slaves and a cannon. Not a bad haul.

    Marseilles falls.

    In 1520, India and the Hittites sign a trade embargo against me. Not a huge surprise, nor terribly threatening.

    Also in 1520, I complete the Theory of Evolution, taking Atomic Theory and Electronics. I switch the palace prebuild -- Hoover Dam, due in 8.

    Earlier, there were a few brief questions about specialist farms. I think it was whatever_du that asked them. Now that my specialist farms have matured, I must admit, I'm rather proud of the results.

    Spoiler :


    Now, maybe I'm just a big ol' micromanaging dork, but I rather enjoy turning 5-turn research on an almost-2700-beaker tech at 0%! After I took the screenshot, I did go ahead and bump to 10%, just to hit the 4-turn minimum. I want transports and I want to know where the oil is, dagnabbit!

    I also begin cash-rushing units. Time to go kill an AI or 3.

    Between 1520 and 1540, a couple more French towns go down and New Leptis Minor 2 is founded. For the first time in this game, I have native gems.

    Finally, in 1550, Paris falls. I took a screenshot, but it's late and I forgot to paste it into MS-Paint. Anyway, I don't know how long I'll be able to hold it, because it contains both the Hanging Gardens and Smith's, but I'm going to try, just because of Smith's.

    And the taking of Paris just seems like a good place to stop. Here's what I've done since invading the other continent in 1520.

    Spoiler :
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    So much for the theory you might sit back and watch the other continent fight! Looks like you've done a number on the French so far, and the Iroquois haven't. Not good about the rep, but if you can gain an upper hand on the other continent and the Iroquois can't, I don't think it really matters.
     
  15. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    France only has 4 or 5 cities left on this continent. I waited to attack Paris until I had some artillery to soften it up. Now that arty and armies are on scene, I don't expect much French Resistance . . .

    You're right about the rep hit. It's a bummer, but certainly not fatal at this point. If push really comes to shove, I can always shut down research and simply overpower them with cash-rushed units. Because of the AI's ineptitude at naval invasions, as evidenced by the Hittite Maneuver, they'll never get close to my core, especially once I get flight.
     
  16. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    I'm glad to see you've found time to continue with this. It seems you're making some great progress. :goodjob:
     
  17. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I was able to squeeze a few turns in, but ran out of time before I could put together a real update. Here are some highlights, spoilered for those who want to wait until a full update comes along.

    Spoiler :
    • I voted the French off of the other continent;
    • The Hittites no longer possess the Great Library;
    • The Hittites no longer possess Shakespeare's Theater;
    • My MPP with the Iros is over;
    • I have oil;
    • I can build destroyers; and
    • Flight is coming soon.
     
  18. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    At long last, I find enough time to post the update that I've been working on. Sorry that I didn't get more screenshots, but I thought I'd get more turns in before posting. I'll try to get more screens in the next update:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Chapter 17: Hoping My Luck Will Change

    Not surprisingly, after the fall of Paris in 1550, Joan persuades Ghandi to sign a trade embargo against us. Hmm, guess I'll just have to miss out on that potential 4-gpt trade, eh?

    In 1555 AD, I finally get ahold of Nationalism by trading The Corporation for it and 33 gold. I don't really care about Rifles, but that opens the door to Espionage.

    By 1570, I've reduced the French to a 4-city civ and only 1 city is on the Iroquois continent. I've got to go through Hittite land to get to it, so I turn my attention to the Hittites. I've got about 6 turns left in the MPP with Hiawatha. As soon as that runs out, I'll start beating on him, too. The year 1570 also sees 3 galleons loaded with settlers land on the other continent. It'll be nice to find a place for all these people. Seemingly overnight, new towns spring up all over my little corner of heaven here.

    And in 1575, I cash-rush an army. Man! Those things are 'spensive!

    The War Efforts progress just about as expected and, in 1585, I take Chartres, the last continental French city. They're still alive, but they've been banished to some island somewhere. Elba, perhaps?

    Also in 1585, I raze Ugarit. I find myself in need of more rail-workers right now.

    I close the 16th century by cancelling the MPP with Hiawatha. As they used to say, "It's been real. It's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun." Besides, I've been scouting the Iroquois coastline and planning my invasion. The French are crippled, the Indians haven't been a threat for centuries, and I'm closing in on the Hittite core. Hiawatha is pretty much the only target left.

    In 1605, The Age of Sail comes to an end. Combustion comes in and I begin cashing in Frigates and putting their shields towards destroyers. At 80% science (-27 gpt), I can have flight in 4. I've lost a couple of cavs to the Hittites and their cultural borders makes getting arty support for my cavs tricky. So I suspect I'll be making peace with them soon, if for no other reason than to turn my attention to Hiawatha.

    Rusicade can turn out 3-turn destroyers, so that's what it's going to build for a while.

    Around 1615, I set workers to railing the mountains in former French territory. With Flight only 3 turns out, I want to be ready to put in some airfields asap.

    At long last, Hiawatha has made enough gold to make selling Medicine worth at least as little of my while.
    Spoiler :


    Nobody else has diddly-doo to pay for Medicine, though. Guess they'll just have to wait.

    Hattusas contains both the Great Library and Shakespeare's Theater. In 1620, at a very high cost in lives, I finally take it. And burn it.

    I forgot to take the usual screenshot showing the advisor, but here's what's left of Hattusas.
    Spoiler :


    At any rate, it's finally time to make peace with Mursilis and to gather my troops in preparation for the Iroquois War. Mursilis pretty much turns his pockets inside out for peace. He'd give me a city, too, but I don't want to deal with defending the one he'll put on the table.

    Spoiler :


    In 1625, Hiawatha comes around, looking to get my Territory Map. Instead, I swap Scientific Method for Communism, WM, 37 gold, and TM. I could get 4 gpt as well and perhaps I should, given that my rep's already busted.

    After 1625, Flight comes in. Mass production is next. Espionage would be fun, but I don't really need it.

    Speaking of my rep, I decide to put my rep to the test. I had a screenshot, but only of the test I ran with the Iroquois. Based on some comments in another thread here, I tested my rep with Mursilis, Hiawatha and Joan. I didn't take screenshots and didn't bother to test it with Ghandi, but here are the results, as of 1635 AD:

    Hittites:
    Active deals: Peace Treaty (17)
    Embargo with Joan against me, so no lux or resource deals.
    However, he will trade his 14 gold for 5 gpt from me.

    Iroquois:
    Active deals: Peace Treaty
    He's also paying me 16 gpt for another 19 turns from a tech sale.
    He will offer me 10 gpt in exchange for incense.
    He will give me 46 gold for 14 gpt.

    French:
    Active deals: PT (15)
    Embargoes with Mursilis and Ghandi against me.
    She will not accept 350 gpt for her 4 gold.
    She will not accept 350 gpt for her WM or her TM. Yes, I could afford it.

    Conclusion: Clearly, with respect to Joan, my rep is totally shot. The other two civs, though, will still let me trade gpt or resources, but I'm not allied with either and do not have MPPs with either. As I said above, I always thought that my rep was pretty much the same with all AIs. Apparently, that's not the case.

    OK, so PTs may turn out to be hard to come by, but gpt deals are still possible.

    Next Step: Gather my forces for the Iroquois War!
     
  19. 3Davideo

    3Davideo Chieftain

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    Poor bard. He had such a good run. But the English puritans had to go close the theatres....

    Just found it interesting that 1620 is about the time the Bard died, and the Puritans closed the theatres not too soon later. And anyway, the first theatre did burn down, anyway.
     
  20. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Chapter 18: Hiawatha's Luck Goes South

    Ok. So the Iros are next on my list. Here's my basic plan:
    Spoiler :


    The Red Brigade will head for Cattaraugus, then on to Centralia, taking out horses, salt, oil and iron along the way.

    The Pink Brigade will head for Grand River, Niagara Falls, and then on to Salamanca. They won't have heavy resource duty the way the Red Brigade does, but that's the way that the resources fell.

    Interestingly, Joan won't take my gpt, but she'll enter an MPP with me!
    Spoiler :


    So will Mursilis, for that matter
    Spoiler :


    Mursi and Hiawatha are at war, so I suppose I could form another MPP with Mursi, but then I'd be forced to DOW Hiawatha and my rep would be totally busted with him, too.

    Besides, I've got another 19 turns of 16 gpt from Hiawatha. Don't want to ruin that just yet, do I?

    Over the course of the next several decades, I continue building. "I'm a builder at heart." On the advice of the little pirate that lives in my house, I rush several destroyers and a few bombers. That same pirate gets to choose a new name for a destroyer that she decided to rush-build. It is given the perhaps unflattering name of "Underdog."

    IN 1645, Mass Production comes in. Tanks are next! :woohoo: (Oh, yeah, and I've already got 4-6 airfields in place on each continent.)

    Eighteen bajillion micromanagment tasks later, I decide, for some reason understood by neither man nor beast, to see what victory conditions I've got enabled: Space Race, Diplo, Conquest and Cultural. I know I had a prefectly good reason for disabling Domination. Anyone remember what it was?

    By the way, anybody have a preference as to how I win this? Diplo could be a mite tricky at this point, Cultural is pretty much out of the question (as of 1650, Utica has amassed 2357 & my entire civ has 9443. . . ). SS will be manageable enough, as will Conquest.

    In 1650, the French-Indian embargo against us ends. Whoopee. I haven't needed to buy anything from those two in centuries and neither has enough gold for me to bother trying to sell anything to them.

    I go about my merry way, shipping troops, building bombers, etc., but the Iros just won't keep their troops off of my ground.

    Spoiler :


    In 1665, after giving Hiawatha the boot a couple of times, I finally get my wish!



    Later, after a couple of turns of war, I went back to take a couple of before and after pictures. Here's before:

    Spoiler :


    The Iroquois War:
    1665 AD:
    Cattaraugus falls (saltpeter and horses go with it)
    Grand River falls

    IBT:
    Tanks come in. Next, I choose Fission. I want MA pretty badly, but I also want to know where the uranium is.

    1670 AD:
    Tanks land on the other continent
    Centralia burns
    Niagara Falls, well, falls

    Additionally, sources of iron, oil, and dyes are either unhooked by bombardment or suddenly outside the Iro cultural borders.

    Here's Hiawatha's mighty empire after 2 turns of war.

    Spoiler :


    Unfortunately, Grand River flips back to the Iros



    1675 AD:
    Grand River falls and is burned. Won't flip again.
    The 1st Tank Division is assembled.
    St. Regis falls
    Tyrana falls
    Aleppo falls
    Two other cities fall, but I neglect to catalog their names

    After 3 turns of war
    Spoiler :


    Too bad for Hiawatha, eh?
     

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