1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Unluckiest Lucky Start

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Aabraxan, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Chapter 14: Still unlucky, still boring.

    As we open our story, at 1385 AD, there's a whole lot of nothing going on. World peace reigns and I'm busy railing, mining irrigating, and otherwise keeping my workers busy. That, building infrastructure in towns that now need it & a little abandoning & resettling work. That's about it. I finish out the 14th century by completing the Pentagon in Rusicade (largely having forgotten that I started it), and, in 1390 AD, the Hittites complete Shakespeare's Theater at Hattusas.

    Electricity comes in & I set my sights on SciMeth. Even at 90% science, I'm running a profit. At this stage, nobody has enough gold to make trading Medicine or Electricity worth the risk that I'll lose ToE in a cascade, so I sit on both. They'll still have some value later and I really, really want the two free techs.

    After letting this sit for a while, I decide to go back and switch a few builds to muskets. I won't ever use them as muskets, but my specialist farms are coming along nicely and I'll be able to upgrade them to infantry soon enough. One settler, a few infantry, maybe, just maybe rush some walls and I ought to be able to sit out quite a storm in the hills on the other continent. The only question is: Who should I invade first? Right now, Hiawatha's the big contender. He seems to have a slight edge over the others in research, and power, though Mursilis and Joan really aren't far behind.

    In 1415, Hiawatha shows up with this offer:
    Spoiler :


    Hmmmm. . . . . I would agree with his assessment. Mighty Carthage does bestride the globe like a colossus. Unfortunately for him, Mighty Carthage is not interested in offering its hand in friendship to the peace-loving Iroquois. . . .

    By 1425, I have totally run out of room for new settlements on my continent. My specialist farms are finally beginning to mature and the railing projects are coming along. I've still got lots to do in the core, and settlers are beginning to pile up, so the time to expand some more is coming.

    Man alive! There sure is a lot of jungle to be cleared. Didja know that there's a key combination that will actually send a worker from the middle of your core to clear the nearest forest tile, even if it's waaaay at the northernmost tip of your continent? Neither did I, 'till I fumble-fingered one.

    In 1435 AD, Scientific Method comes in and it turns out that I didn't plan my prebuilds very well. Even with the Army prebuild I had going at Leptis Minor, ToE is 39 turns out. I can get it in 29 at Tingis, so I'll build it there, even without a prebuild. Now the $64,000 question is whether to invade prior to completion. I think probably not. I could go lone scientist for 29 turns, save a bunch of gold, and use it for upgrades. It's not likely that the AI will beat me to ToE. Not impossible, but unlikely. By joining some workers, I discover that I can shave it down to 17 turns. OK. I can wait that long to invade.

    I figure out that I can research RP in 7 turns, so I decide to go ahead with that. I can finish that and maybe then shut down research (or go lone scientist) until ToE. We'll see.

    According to CA2, I'll lose ~130gpt in deals that expire next turn (1445 AD). I need to decide right now whether to sell Medicine or Electricity (the only things I've got to market) and risk a cascade on ToE, or whehter to bite the bullet and take the economic hit. After 1445, I also lose my source of Dyes (Hittite).

    After the deals have collapsed, here's what trade looks like:

    Spoiler :


    I don't care for the fact that the Iroquois have developed Industrialization. Frankly, I wanted it for myself. It was one of the techs that I was considering taking from the ToE, but maybe I can trade for it.
    Spoiler :


    Hmm. . . Seems a little steep, don'tcha think? I'm just not interested in selling the Iros two luxes, not even for industrialization.

    Here's what Hiawatha will give for Electricity:

    Spoiler :


    Here's what he'll give for Medicine:
    Spoiler :

    If I turn down research some, I can still do some deficit research, but still make it moderately timely. At 50%, I can still grab RP in 7 at +30 gpt. I decide not to trade just yet. I'm still just too jumpy about losing ToE in a cascade. I may well lose the opportunity to trade Medicine and Electricity, but if I get ToE, it will have been worth it.

    In 1450, Mursilis show up, wanting to renegotiate peace. Looking at my "Current Trades" tab, it looks like I did indeed include gpt in the peace treaty. That appears to be why Mursilis showed up, looking to renegotiate. I'd much rather they declared on me, but I've still got a boat in their waters, so I don't want to bust my rep by DOWing them right now. I accept.

    Also in 1450, I learn that the Iros have begun Universal Sufferage. All the more reason not to trade Elec or Medicine, I guess.

    So, that's the latest. It's still a rather tedious "get forces together and prepare to invade" kind of game. Unfortunately, the ToE is still ~15 turns out, and army is ~18 turns out and I've got a palace prebuild going . . . for what, I'm not sure.

    The various empires still look the same. Here's a picture of the tech tree. Anyone care to opine as to what I should take if I get the ToE? I'll have RP in 4 turns, so it'll be out of the way. I'm thinking maybe Atomic Theory and Electronics to make use of my palace prebuild (which should have about 300 shields in it right now) to grab Hoover, maybe? Then I can trade them around for Nationalism, Industrialization, etc. Not that I'll need Nationalism, not unless I want espionage.

    Spoiler :


    Anyway, thanks for following along.
     
  2. Nergal

    Nergal Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Thats my usual play, Atomic Theory and Electronics. I think they are the most expensive and Hoover is so useful.
     
  3. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    They are the most expensive, but I frequently grab RP and something else. In this case, I'll have RP by then and think I can trade around for factories and begin self-researching towards transports, tanks & bombers. Given that I already have 1 palace prebuild and a possible army prebuild going, AT and Electronics does seem like the smart move.
     
  4. Nergal

    Nergal Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    A couple of thoughts occured to me. The Hoover prebuild has to be in a city with a River. Doesnt the Hydro Plant only affect Factory output, so you need a factory to make use of it?
    I normally go for ToE, Atomic and Electronics and Hoover, but while I'm building ToE research RP and Industrialization. Then build factories everywhere that can do them quickly and will get the most shield output.
     
  5. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Ooh, yeah. I'd better check on that.
    Edit: The palace prebuild is at Lahore. It's tough to see from the screenshots that I've posted, but it's on a river.
    Edit #2: On the other hand, the army (possible) prebuild is at Leptis Minor -- not on a river.

    Yes. But I can build the factories after grabbing ToE. It's not the most efficient way to go about things, I know.

    This is probably the way to go about it. I'm a little jumpy after seeing 3 wonders in 3 turns in this game though. Now that I think about it, they probably don't have anything decent to cause a cascade with after that, though.
     
  6. Nergal

    Nergal Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    I've normally found the ToE to be a safe build. THe AI like Scientific Method when its offered but dont seem to research it by choice. They are much more likely to go for Nationalism, then Communism/Fascism and Espionage. It usually gives me breathing space to get RP and Ind. If you get Hoover built and out of the way someone will trade the rest of the techs for Atomic and Electronics. My path then is straight for Refining, to check for oil, then up to Motorized and Flight.
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I'd agree with this assessment. I'm not usually this jumpy about losing to a cascade, but I am in this game.

    You're right about the AI getting caught up on the Nationalism -> Communism/Fascism path. I may be able to squeeze in Industrialization (or trade for it) before ToE comes in. We'll just have to see.

    Yeah, I usually ignore Espionage (unless the pointy stick will get it for me) and head for better boats, planes and tanks -- not necessarily in that order.
     
  8. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    93
    combustion -> Mass Production -> Motorized Transportation

    This will give you both naval AND ground superiority in one combo, which is perfect since it appears you have a WWII-style continent invasion comming soon. After that, industrialization and sanitation to make your cities infinitely more productive.
     
  9. whatever_du

    whatever_du Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
    I think you have to get in industrialization before combustion, and refining somewhere on the way to motorized transport.

    I'D say you might probably be able to get RP and Industrialization before your ToE Comes out, depending on how much you need money (By shuting down science waiting for ToE) THat would give you a real edge in science.
     
  10. bunny_lard

    bunny_lard Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    93
    ^^

    That was an incomplete list, obviously there are those pointless pathway techs that need to be researched...and industrialization he should have gotten if he was smart, but apparently he did a militaristic-tech rush. Anyway, I was simply outlining the ones that would give him the important units.
     
  11. whatever_du

    whatever_du Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
    First I'm happy that you know about those ''pointhless Pathway Techs''. but the guy is explaining his game step by step and the steps right now are what to research or what to get with his ToE. For the rest, I'm not sure I'm with you on that militaristic-tech rush, Scientific Method?!? And If you're thinking about Replacable part, he might want to upgrade his Units so he can board them on boats preparing his landing on the other side of the world.
     
  12. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    First of all, thanks for everyone's input. By all means, keep it coming. RP will certainly come in easily before the ToE, and I may be able to squeeze in Industrialization, but I'm not sure just yet. As I've got a palace prebuild going in a river city, I may grab Atomic Theory and Electronics so that I can use the prebuild for Hoover's. Then I could self-research to get to Combustion and Flight (along with whatever pathway techs are in between). I will want tanks eventually, but I sure do like planes. Fighters to light up targets, bombers to take them out.

    At any rate, I'm not sure I have the patience to wait for transports to start the invasion. Once I get RP, I can upgrade some units. Infantry, artillery and cavs probably won't be sufficient to kill off anyone, but it's enough to hurt them.
     
  13. whatever_du

    whatever_du Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
    Just if you have the time before playin/posting how many boats do you have availlable right now ?!??! and is there a target for an agressive airport (placing bombers and jet fighters to attack the main island)
     
  14. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I'm not at a computer where I can look at the save, but I think I've got 4-5 galleons sitting in port right now. I can be on Iro soil in 2 turns from the north, or there's a small island to the south that I could turn into a forward base. Problem with that, though, is that (again, IIRC), it's got one Hittite town, one French town and one Iro town . . . I'd have to war with almost everyone to clear that island.
     
  15. 3Davideo

    3Davideo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    74
    What's wrong with going to war with nearly everyone? I do it all the time!
     
  16. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Truthfully, even if they ganged up on me, I don't think any of them could successfully invade my continent. But I don't think I have the transport capability to successfully fight a multi-front war on the other continent.
     
  17. Headbanger

    Headbanger Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    198
    I"ve seen the ai land a a maximum of three units on a shoreline. Usually they just drop one.

    Not exactly "Overlord".
     
  18. Nergal

    Nergal Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    The AI isnt the best shoreline invader thats for sure. I've had a stack of 12 units dropped off by 2 transports and a couple of destroyers, plus destroyers and a carrier or 2 offshore. Unfortunately it was within range of my bombers and 3 MA armies, plus support so none of lasted too long. But its the same case trying to land on a developed continent, especially if they have bombers. I'm trying a new technique, it works with Cavalry and MA. Land next to a city, in force. Take the city, sell the improvements, abandon the city and jump back in the galleons/transports, and head out of range. For some reason it seems to really annoy the AI. Take a spare transport along to carry back foriegn wqorkers, or just disband any you cant fit on boat home.
     
  19. Headbanger

    Headbanger Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    198
    You know whats fun?

    A stack of 10 mobile aa's.
     
  20. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    5,106
    Location:
    Arkansas
    The AI is notoriously bad at naval invasions. The worst that I can think of, off the top of my head, was seeing the AI drop a settler pair (spear + settler) on the one open square between two 4-unit cav armies. It was almost like a donation!
     

Share This Page