The UU-A-Day Countdown

[Polobo]

It's all but impossible that the Ballista will kill units with one hit. That would mean that, when fighting against units, the extra damage is just wasted.

The advantage to the extra power, even if it is not enough to kill, is that the follow-up attack from your melee units will be against a relatively weaker unit and thus make the kill easier and - against anyone but Japan - decrease the amount of damage your unit is likely to take.

 

[iop]

Ballista are going to be good, but I kinda wonder if it might just be overkill for the period. Greg's Trebuchet took about three hits to kill a Rifleman. I'm thinking it might have taken two to kill a Pikeman. I'm going to assume Catapults are the same for the Ancient age (2 hits to kill). It's all but impossible that the Ballista will kill units with one hit. That would mean that, when fighting against units, the extra damage is just wasted. It would be great against cities, though.

To be fair, Greg's trebuchet had accuracy 1-3 as well, which means something like 60% or more to strength.
But unless there's one-hit kills of units with attack force to spare, ballistas can't be overkill. I won't complain if they bring a defender down to 2, so that my legion only has to look at the guy funny before he collapses.

[edit: ninja'ed]

 

[Louis XXIV]

OK, you both make good points. I wasn't thinking about weakening units, but that does make sense (especially because you can then crush them with your Legions ).

 

[12agnar0k]

1) Not generally speaking, because you have to expend a movement point to set up a siege weapon. So if you move and set up, you'll have run out of movement points.

2) Yes, there is no damage cap placed on certain types of units, although you aren't guaranteed a kill with every attack, sometimes you only do enough damage to injure. (and thats true with all units)

2), your half wrong, there is no damage cap placed on any units.

Well as far as we know, but we have seen naval ships kill, air units kill, siege units kill, ranged units kill, melee units kill, missiles kill, giant walking mech's kill. I don't think we will have the limitations of previous titles where siege units or air units were overpowered and had damage limited.

 

[Prof_longhair]

Can they move AND fire in the same turn?

They could fire and then move if they were set up from the turn before, correct? Firing takes a movement point, but doesn't end the turn correct?

 

[iop]

They could fire and then move if they were set up from the turn before, correct? Firing takes a movement point, but doesn't end the turn correct?

Attacking ends the turn unless specified (cavalry can attack and then move, for example).

 

[12agnar0k]

They could fire and then move if they were set up from the turn before, correct? Firing takes a movement point, but doesn't end the turn correct?

Incorrect, firing will end your movement, unless you have a special ability like the knight or horseman or GDR that allows you to move one space after attacking.

The "attack twice" promotion, may allow you to attack and then attack again, but it won't let you attack and then choose to move afterwards.

The thing that Greg did, assumeably, was set up, fire once (and then run out of his two available actions) and not get to use his second fire. However normally attacking will use all of your remaining movement points.

 

[Prof_longhair]

thnx

 

[Terrance888]

Personally, I would perfer 2 attacks, + flanking bonus- str panzers and maybe a spead boast. Because they are just that: fast acting tanks tanks that strike fast and follow through (2 attacks), work with other tanks to break through flanks (Flanking bonus) to make up for indivisual weakness (- str)

 

[ShaqFu]

Six more days! Six, being the number of sides on a hexagon, which is how we'll play Civ for at least another five years. We'll see if Sid's experiment is vindicated or not soon enough.

I've been excited to play India (super-size cities teeming with cheap specialists!), so we'll talk about the War Elephant. An enigmatic unit for months, we now know via the strategy guide that it's a War Chariot replacement with some interesting properties: 3 more melee and 2 more ranged strength (6/8) than generic (3/6), but at the cost of 20 more production (80 vs 60) and one less movement point (3 vs 4).

Most of what I said a few weeks back about Naresuan's Elephant could apply here: powerful units that trade mobility for strength. I'd go as far as to say that the War Elephant is the stronger of the two, however, given their relative ages. Naresuan's Elephant comes at a time of siege weaponry, Crossbowmen, and has its movement reduced to that of infantry, stripping away Siam's ability to maneuver in an era that demands it. The War Elephant, on the other hand, picks up some much-needed strength (it no longer loses to Scouts!) and trades a movement point, but is still swifter than Spearmen and Warriors. If you need a quick ranged strike, the Elephant can do it; if you need a speedy rush, the Elephant can still do it. In essence, the War Elephant is like a weaker, more mobile Naresuan's Elephant, which is perfectly fine for an ancient UU. I'm approaching them less as a Chariot Archer upgrade and more of a faster, stronger Archer; the 8 ranged strength will keep them relevant longer, and the 6 melee strength means they won't get pushed over so easily. Certainly a respectable UU, although I don't see them being used in any great ancient rushes - as a defensive unit, however, they can reach a front quickly and deal damage against incoming Warriors and Spearmen. The high hammer cost, though (two could've been the Pyramids) greatly limits their use in offensive warfare, so they'll likely be what keeps India alive before its abilities can really kick in.

And wow, I'm tired of typing the word "elephant."

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well, two may be the pyramids, but I doubt the pyramids will defend you, will they?

Personally, I like this unit. While it's not a unit to make India rush, since when has India been aggressive? I mean, with Gandhi as your leader, just pump a couple Eles out for defense (along with some other units, of course) and peacefully expand without fear.

 

[12agnar0k]

we now know via the strategy guide that it's a War Chariot replacement with some interesting properties:

I think you mean, "Chariot Archer" replacement,
Also that was already safely guessed, the +20 production cost however is new information, and well that isn't really ground shaking news, you should have picked up on one of the other UU/UB's posted thats new .

But to go back to it, yeah, I suppose it will be an interesting unit, not as fast as its counterpart, but stronger, doesn't cost the horse resource I believe we either know or safely assume, it will give India a unique army at that time for sure, it should help it protect its early very few cities, or perhaps help them on early conquests for the agressive indian players. A ranged unit with three movement thats stronger than the normal chariots and can be built in larger numbers, may be something to fear from an early Indian rush.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

I like this unit a lot both for defense AND attack. Chariot archers supporting a combat front need that extra move because they will have to move forward and constantly try and avoid enemy units. A war elephant however has enough move to get to the flanks of a battle and stay there. Push some spearmen for a rear guard, swordsmen for the front lines and your war elephants as fast ranged siege.

 

[El Caballerion]

Cool. India is slowly starting to become one of my fav hypothetical CIV's. I've always liked to work with fewer, but more powerful, cities. I kinda wish the War Elephant was used more toward the medieval age though. I'm not a fan of attacking in the ancient age.

 

[hk2717]

I don't think War Elephant is a good idea. It does not fit into India's gameplay style. They should replace it with another UB.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I don't think War Elephant is a good idea. It does not fit into India's gameplay style. They should replace it with another UB.

India has a great variety of playstyles, I think.

 

[Louis XXIV]

It's still good to have an early unit, if just for defense. You can use it as a mobile archer to defend against opposing attacks (rush them to the front line and then sit). They'll help when everyone's population is small, so India has no domestic advantages. They aren't as useful for conquest because they cost more and are slower, so they can't be used to swarm and overwhelm the enemy. But you don't want to use them for conquest because more cities are bad for India. In that sense, the synergy isn't terrible.

Plus, it doesn't hurt to not put all your eggs in one basket (which is what I dislike about the Iroquois).

 

[Sciguy001]

I'm glad they didn't make both of the Elephant UU's in the same era, but agreeing with El Cabellerion I prefer to not have a UU in the ancient age. I won't be as big of a fan of this UU as I will with the Medieval-Era Narusan's Elephant. A reinassance-era UU would be certainly be interesting however.

This UU isn't particularly good for large-scale conquest because of its cost, movement deduction, and fatal weakness against spears. However they would be good for skirmish wars (usually of defense) to protect your budding metropolises go along unharmed.
It still is a potent attacker in small-scale wars, practically being a fast powerful archer. There would be nothing stopping India from "rushing" a neutral city state for their advantage.

Keep in mind that the Indians UB is a castle with double maintenance and a mere +2 culture for most of the game. Personally I think this is the worst UB, I mean it gives a negative effect with a very minor positive effect to a building that it you certainly won't be building in every city regardless. This is probably to balance the goodness of their UA, but still.

 

[12agnar0k]

Sciguy, spearmen only get the % bonus in defence, and I doubt it will count at all in ranged combat, so the War Elephant has no disadvantage to spearmen (other than they have stronger strength)

 

[bjbrains]

Sciguy, spearmen only get the % bonus in defence, and I doubt it will count at all in ranged combat, so the War Elephant has no disadvantage to spearmen (other than they have stronger strength)

No, the spearman defensive-only thing was bad information. More recent stuff confirms it as a Combat bonus.