The Vox Populi Challenge No. 10 - The better kind of wonders

[Grabbl]

Dear players!

The submission date has passed, scroll down for the results and don't miss the next challenge!

With a bit of the usual delay (I guess I'm not a typical German in that regard...), be welcome to the 10th Vox Populi challenge! But before we come to that, I'll start with a different point, preparing for the next season of Vox Populi challenges. I'm considering to shorten the length of the season and would appreciate your opinion on this via the poll - everyone that could in principle imagine to participate is welcome to vote. And while we're at that, if you have an opinion how many scores should count for each competitor, (differing from the current ratio 10 out of 12), I'd be glad to read them in this thread as well.

And now back to the challenge No. 10:


​

After our fairytale adventure in Arabia, we turn towards the American continent again (at least for the protagonist of this challenge): The Iroquois find themselves under the pressure of both foreign and indigene powers. Defend - or rather claim - the important places the Gods have left for you (and you alone, for that's certain!) on this world and ensure that the Iroquois civilization will leave more remains than a haircut.

Before you continue reading, make sure that you have Vox Populi version 11-21 with the newest hotfixes installed.

Also, please make sure you know the rules. Especially, don't share ingame information unspoilered, not even the number of points you achieved (or the turn where you finished the challenge). I don't want anyone to be discouraged by your score, or knowing what numbers he should aim for. In spoilers, you are very welcome to describe your game, of course

Spoiler Game Rules :

1) The Golden Rule: Don't replay, don't reload, send in your first try! It is recommended to set your auto-save frequency to 1 turn for this game. If you have a crash that forces you to replay, write it in the mail afterwards and try replaying as closest as possible to what you did before the crash.

2) Don't exploit any bugs you may find. At the moment, I'm not aware of any exploitable bugs, but just in case, don't overuse obviously bugged mechanics (like the infinite tribute-bug a few patches ago).

3) Don't share ingame-information unspoilered! If you want to share strategies or ingame information in this thread, use spoilers and write "Do not open unless you already sent in your game." on top of it. A separate thread for spoilers would be good, but I don't want to spam the main forum for this pilot.

4) Don't look at spoilers if you didn't finish your game!

5) Don't use cheat tools (Ingame Editor, Info Addict...) and don't open the map in some editor or else.

6) Don't use any additional mods besides full Vox Populi (1 to 6, either EUI or non-EUI) as I'm not sure whether I will be able to open your savegame files if you do.

The exact goal for this challenge:

As fast as you can, but no later than turn 300, bring all 6 natural wonders on the map under your control.

Tie-breaking is the land covered by your empire (the value shown in the demographics).

If you don't manage to control all natural wonders by turn 300 or decide to send an earlier save because you don't think you'll be able to get more of them, you will be ranked as follows:
1) by the number of natural wonders controlled
2) land covered (the value shown in the demographics)​

Submission deadline is Wednesday, the 19th of December, 6 pm Eastern Time (midnight in Central European Time). You can submit by personal message to me, posting your save in this thread, or sending it to vox-populi-challenge@gmx.net. Don't forget to write the name under which you want to appear in the ranking if sending by e-mail!

Spoiler Game Settings :

• Map: Oval, Small
• 6 players
• Research Agreements, No Tech Trading
• No Ancient Ruins (but see note below)
• No Events
• 6 Natural Wonders

If something is not clear, read the following spoiler, then ask a question if still unclear:

Spoiler :

• There are six natural wonders in game. The notifications you get when discovering them tell you that there are seven, but that's because the game doesn't see you discovering the natural wonder revealed at the start of the game (I believe).
• There are a few hand-placed Ancient Ruins on the map, however, I think it is very improbable that you'll find one. They are placed for balance reasons and not intended for you.
• You "control" a natural wonder in the sense of the challenge goal only if it is in your borders - there is no interaction with allied city states, vassals or whatever.
• In case that the method for the ranking isn't clear, that's how it will look:

1. All players that control all 6 natural wonders, in order of the turn of their save (from low too high), then by the land covered.
2. Players that control 5 natural wonders, ordered by the land covered.
3. Players that control 4 natural wonders, ordered by the land covered.
... and so on

• In particular, the turn number of your save only matters if you control all 6 natural wonders (however, it always needs to be 300 or lower, no matter what).
• "Land covered" means the value in the Demographics screen. As far as I know, that also includes water tiles (and it's 10000*nb. of tiles).

This challenge is the tenth of a season of 12 challenges. After the submission deadline, I will rank all participants (divided by difficulty level) and you will get 15/13/11/10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1/1/1/... points for the 1st/2nd/3rd... rank. At the end of the season, your best 10 results will count for the final ranking.

The winners of the season (one for Prince, one for Immortal) will be granted the opportunity to become a part of the game as a Great Person of their choice (Prophets excluded). Thanks to Gazebo for this contribution to the challenge!

Now... download the save for your difficulty, make sure you have Vox Populi version 11-21 and you're ready to go!

 

[Grabbl]

The results are there:



Not much to say, all prince players managed to get all natural wonders while that proved more difficult on Immortal. Congratulations to the first-time participant Vide0gamer for the double victory! (hopefully, I didn't make any mistakes)



And that's the scoreboard. Dejagore safely stays ahead of everyone in Prince while Nemoens manages to jump on the podium - however, the returned Diverman is close on the fourth place - not everything is decided here. On Immortal, Thomas8 also manages to build a lead that could be called quite safe with only two challenges remaining.

 

[Diverman]

Long time I didn't participate, but here we go !

Spoiler :

Finished turn 159. Lazy to describe all the game, but after obviously settled near Gibraltar I went first for the Aztecs and Lake Victoria, then conquered Tyre and its NW (don't remember the name), then gobbled America with Eldorado and Old Faithful before taking enough Shoshones territory to be able to steal the Mesa from France with 2 Great Generals citadels in a row. Without a surprise, it was a full authority/warmongering game, but a fun game nonetheless : I love to stomp others with the almighty punks mohawk warriors

 

[John.B.C]

Something seem to be wrong with the immortal save, As can be seen my empire doesn't support any units, I'm down -5% from start. Also I can start picking endless policies when settling my first city. I tried to download and reinstall vox populi 11-21 but it gave me the same results. Finished only but two trees the very first turn:

 

[Grabbl]

Weird, the save loads fine for me I just redownloaded the current installer and reinstalled it, and I have no problems.

@CrazyG had the same problem (I think) with the last challenge, however I don't know whether and how he resolved it, would be good to know.

 

[Grabbl]

Don't forget to install the new hotfix: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-hotfix-version-11-21-3.639020/

@John.B.C : does the problem persist?

 

[John.B.C]

Problem is solved thanks. I don't know if it was the hotfix or the decision to run the VP installer as an "administrator", but it works now.

 

[Stalker0]

To the original question I don’t mind a longer season but would like fewer scores to count (like 5 out of 12).

I don’t have the time for all of the challenges, but I a few look really fun. It would be nice to not have to compete in almost all of them to have a chance to compete.

 

[nemoens]

Having some real difficulties with getting these save games open, I've tried with the two most recent hotfixes and reinstalled from scratch, but both save files crash whilst trying to load. I can start my own games and open other save files, but not open yours. Not had any problems in previous challenges. No other mods installed. Any ideas?

 

[Dejagore]

Finished Prince. Save attached.

@nemoens - try to reinstall Civ 5. Then install Vox Populi again. As for me I did standard installation of version Vox Populi (11-21-1)) and had no troubles with loading Grabbl save game.

Spoiler SPOILER :

This scenario was pretty fast (139 turns) as all natural wonders were not far away. I discovered all of them with starting scout actually. Haven't initiated war with Aztecs as Lake Victoria is obtainable with settling own city and buying the terrain straight after. Same with Mesa - just need to use great general. Others are just standard 'Mohawk invasion' war. Nice scenario although I prefer more of peaceful ones.

Probably will try the Immortal scenario too.

 

[nemoens]

Okay, I got it working... sort of. Reinstall didn't get me anywhere, tried all three 21st versions and all the same. Then I checked the mod requirements for the save file and realised it was just elements 1-5, so tried with 6a and 7 switched off and it let me in. So, I've both finished prince and realised how much I don't like the normal UI!

Spoiler :

I can't quite get over how easy that was. Mohawk Warriors are absolute monsters, and clearly the map is set up to help you a bit with lots of forests and natural wonders, but nobody could stand up to me and I could comfortably run 3-4 wars at once whilst sustaining my economy by tributing local city states like it was going out of fashion. Can't imagine this is anything like the same game on Immortal but will give it a go but I think this has to be a competitive prince entry - turn 114 for conquering Paris. Natural wonders in Paris, New York, Te-Moak, tyre, Osininka and Onodaya

 

[Grabbl]

Spoiler :

Interesting that you all find it quite easy - I'm curious whether that'll change in Immortal.

Okay, I got it working... sort of. Reinstall didn't get me anywhere, tried all three 21st versions and all the same. Then I checked the mod requirements for the save file and realised it was just elements 1-5, so tried with 6a and 7 switched off and it let me in. So, I've both finished prince and realised how much I don't like the normal UI!

Spoiler :

I can't quite get over how easy that was. Mohawk Warriors are absolute monsters, and clearly the map is set up to help you a bit with lots of forests and natural wonders, but nobody could stand up to me and I could comfortably run 3-4 wars at once whilst sustaining my economy by tributing local city states like it was going out of fashion. Can't imagine this is anything like the same game on Immortal but will give it a go but I think this has to be a competitive prince entry - turn 114 for conquering Paris. Natural wonders in Paris, New York, Te-Moak, tyre, Osininka and Onodaya

You should be able to load the save with 6a or 6b activated (and they are compatibility patches, so you need them activated). It doesn't show in the mod requirements because you can choose between 6a and 6b and load the save with and without EUI. 7, however, is not a part of the main Vox Populi mod and should never be enabled for these challenges! Probably it doesn't matter much if events are turned off anyway, but to be sure, don't activate it.

Also, you seem to have uploaded the wrong file

 

[nemoens]

Spoiler :

Interesting that you all find it quite easy - I'm curious whether that'll change in Immortal.

Pretty confident that the answer to that is "yes"

You should be able to load the save with 6a or 6b activated (and they are compatibility patches, so you need them activated). It doesn't show in the mod requirements because you can choose between 6a and 6b and load the save with and without EUI. 7, however, is not a part of the main Vox Populi mod and should never be enabled for these challenges! Probably it doesn't matter much if events are turned off anyway, but to be sure, don't activate it.

Also, you seem to have uploaded the wrong file

Fairly sure it worked with all the others, but who knows! And yes, good spot. Hope you enjoyed the initial random academia...

 

[CrazyG]

Weird, the save loads fine for me I just redownloaded the current installer and reinstalled it, and I have no problems.

@CrazyG had the same problem (I think) with the last challenge, however I don't know whether and how he resolved it, would be good to know.

I did manage to resolve it (didn't finish my game in time though).

What I had to do was start a new game, then load that savegame. If I just loaded teh savegame direclty, for some reason the game would reconfigure its settings and be all weird.

 

[vide0gamer]

First time submitting to one of these, tried immortal Arabia but got too greedy early and was squished. Decided to give Prince a try this time.

Spoiler Spoiler :

I agree with the others, this was very easy. Helped that I managed to complete Statue of Zeus before going on a mohawk rampage. Also helped that for some reason, France never built walls in their capital (they did for their other cities). Finished on Turn 101.

 

[vide0gamer]

Managed to do Immortal as well.

Spoiler Spoiler :

Turn 140. Would have had this one about 10 turns earlier if I had realized Goshute had a spot to use a Great General to nab Kilimanjaro. America made things a tiny bit dicey there at the end.

 

[nemoens]

Submitting my Immortal entry

Spoiler :

It's nearly 100 turns early but I think I'm in as good a position as I'm likely to be here. I seized four natural wonders fairly early, crippling the Shosone and taking Madrid (and with it, Catholicism) but (perhaps unsurprisingly) that annoyed every other civilisation in the game and I've spent the last 50-odd turns at war with America, the Inca and Spain and am starting to lose ground. Fun though, definitely harder on Immortal (and, perhaps more importantly, without a forest start).

 

[Thomas8]

About survey - I dont care about how long session will be - but I prefer having more time in each game - 4 weeks if possible.

Prince game:

Spoiler :

I am not good with pure warfare games - finished on turn 237. I was forced to vasalize almost entire map - save Russia. I was not even able to steal Mesa from France, couldnt settle last city there.

 

[Thomas8]

Finished immortal game

Spoiler :

4 Natural Wonders gained - finished around turn 271.

Spain shut me down through entire game (+ defensive pact with Brazil and USA). I thought I could grind her down, but after she built Red Fort there is no way I will be able to push through her borders.

PS - I just noticied that demographic window - land - is recalculated after end of the turn - or maybe its only my version of the game.

 

[Grabbl]

The results are there (second post)! Thanks to everyone who participated in these busy pre-christmas days and congratulations to the newcomer and immediate double-winner Vide0gamer!

I feel that the challenge was a bit too easy on Prince - I should have spread the wonders further perhaps. Immortal is a different thing, of course, as that's a difficulty where warfare against the AI gets quite a bit more brutal. But I hope it was fun nevertheless

I just noticied that demographic window - land - is recalculated after end of the turn - or maybe its only my version of the game.

Good observation, I knew that in principle, but forgot it - luckily no tiebreaker was close enough for that to matter.


Finally, to let you participate in my thoughts, that's what the feedback will have of an effect to the next season: Most players that did vote confirmed my feeling that a shorter season would be appreciated, alongside with a point system that doesn't punish non-participation so hard and rather gives points for good performances (reducing overall points). I haven't decided yet, but it'll probably come out at something like "4 scores out of 6 challenges" or "5-6 out of 8". Furthermore, I'll probably aim for a submission time of 3-4 weeks rather than 2-3 weeks, as proposed by Thomas8 - perhaps with a bit more effort on my side to keep these threades alive. Anyway, stay tuned for the next challenge!