[NFP] The Weird Mechanics of Vampire Build Charges

[Deadly Dog]

This was being discussed in another thread, as an aside, and as its much more complicated than I thought at first. I figure it warrants its own thread. I think I have the system sussed and it seems to be designed to allow the player to relocate castles but it is not idiot proof and comes with some pitfalls. But relocating castles is nice, especially since their yields get locked in while surrounding tiles may improve. More on that later.

Test setup:

Vampire A is in home territory, Vampire B is in neutral territory. Both have 2 charges. I moved both around to see what actions I could take on resources, improvements, and woods and rainforest, chopped and built and removed castles in several different orders until was confident I knew what was happening.

What you can do with charges:

In neutral territory a vampire can only build a castle in tiles with no resources, or features. Floodplains and Volcanic soils were not tested.

In home territory a vampire can chop but cannot harvest resources. Chopping yields seem normal.

What can you do for free:

You can remove improvements and repair improvements in home territory for free as long as you have not built max number of castles and your vampire has at least 1 charge.

You can remove castles at home or abroad with a Vampire as long as you have not built max number of castles.

You can remove castles at home or abroad with a worker at any time, no charge.

The Weird Stuff:

Building a Castle removes a charge from both (all?) vampires. That's right. But also, removing a castle restored a charge to both vampires. I tested this 2 ways:

1. A chops, I charge left. B makes castle, has 1 charge left. But suddenly A has no options to build, repair, or remove. Next turn B removes castle, and bingo has 2 charges again. Also A can now build or chop with 1 charge.
2. Both A and B have 2 charges, A builds castle. Both now have one charge. B builds castle, and now no build/repair/remove options are available. Builder removes castle A, both vampires now have a charge. Builder or vampire can remove castle B either way and both vampires now have 2 charges.

Conclusion:

Charges used for chopping are non-refundable, but charges on castles are refundable. You can never have more charges on a vampire than you have unbuilt castles. Vampires can change their minds every turn and relocate castles as long as you stay below max castles (in my test 2 was the max). But even with all castles built you can remove one with a Builder and the build options to all your vampires who had at least one charge will appear until you rebuild it. Hence you can not only move castles but simply update their yields....as long as a Vampire with at least one charge is present...

TL;DR:

NEVER use both charges on a single vampire for chops. They will never build anything again.
Never use a vampire charge on a chop, it will reduce your flexibility in setting up/moving other castles.
Use a builder/vampire combo to update your Castles yields whenever you want, or even move it to a better spot.


Further Questions:

Can refundable charges be re-distributed? I.e., if Vampire A chops twice and Vampire B builds 2 castles, do they both get a build charge when either castle is removed? What if both are removed?

Also the Vampire in the industrial era gets only 1 charge, and after building a castle was unable to get a charge back when a different castle was removed, only the 2 older vampires, who had both only built a castle each, could build my 3rd castle. So i think that Vampire C will only get a chance to build again if my total castles drops to 2 below max. My hypothesis anyway, but it may be a while before I set up a test for that.

 

[Tuvok694]

Thanks for this very useful overview!
And to the guys from Firaxis: You could not make it any more complicated, right? Why?

Are the vampire castle yields affected by building improvements on adjacent tiles (mines, farms)? And if yes: Is it relevant if the improvement exists before the castle is built?

 

[Deadly Dog]

Thanks for this very useful overview!
And to the guys from Firaxis: You could not make it any more complicated, right? Why?

Are the vampire castle yields affected by building improvements on adjacent tiles (mines, farms)? And if yes: Is it relevant if the improvement exists before the castle is built?

Basically the castle takes a snapshot of your surrounding yields at that moment, and are not affected by any changes in yields in the surrounding tiles as far as I can tell. So disasters, improvements you build or yields that improve with certain techs/civics or from changes in appeal do not change the yields of the castle. You can "update" the yields of a castle by having a vampire remove and rebuild the castle (see above), though as that takes 2 turns you will lose 1 turn of yields.

There are other questions in General Discussion I saw today that apply here but as I can't answer them myself am posting them here:

• Do Vampire yields successfully transfer when a player's Capital is relocated, whether by conquest, DIdo project, or Asteroid strike in Apocalypse?
  
• Can a Vampire castle capture the yields from a rival's Ley Lines?
• What happens to a vampire castle if it becomes territory of another civ?
  
• Can you buy a tile on your borders if there is a Vampire Castle (neutral territory) beside it?

There may be answers in other threads I haven't kept up with but I don't think these are common knowledge yet.

 

[Nostradamart]

Actually the charges are bound to the number of castles you can build per "level". you had 2 vampires with a total capacity of building 2 vampire castle in your empire, building one will burn a charge. clearing one will give you the charge back. chopping and harvesting is free for vamps.

 

[Naeshar]

I don't have SS.
But this is an interesting topic. Because "charges" are now used by many units, they shall be clarified: (non-religious)
a) Any unit with charges can remove improvements without a cost. (I am not sure of legion-type)
b) Any unit with charges can chop features, using a charge. Its usually builders, but you can use legion/toa charges you don't want to build forts with. Don't use military engineers or vampires, since these charges are costly.
c) Builders with charges can use them to build improvements - which is actually a specific action, each. Same with forts and missile silos etc.
d) Military engineers and sometimes builders and sometimes GE can add production to something produces in the city, expending one/all charges.
e) Units without combat strength (civilians) disappear after using up their charges.

Okay so I didn't test the resource chop by units other than builders. I didn't test Mounties and I know the Environmentalists cant do anything but build NPs. Religious units cant do anything of this, but they disappear after using charges too.
Vampires seem consistent with this behavior. But they seem to have a shared pool of charges, funny enough.