The Wheel of Time Mod, second chance.

[Micaelus]

Here are leaders that seem to best fit the various nations of Randland. They seem to make sense to me based on all those that I've looked at, so I'm wondering if they seem to fit for you all as well. The italicized descriptions are taken from the books as compiled by Encyclopedia WoT. The next post will include those still outstanding with descriptions if there are any.

Suriyothai by R8XFT is Tenobia of the Borderlands
She is tall and pretty with a bold nose and large tilted eyes of dark deep blue. / She has an eagle's beak nose and a wide mouth. Her best feature is her tilted purple eyes.

Spoiler :

Agam Rund by embryodead is Mattin Stepaneos of Illian
He is muscular. His beard is white and he is nearly bald. He has a well-broken nose and a creased face.

Spoiler :

Tauron by R8XFT is Darlin Sisnera of Tear
He has short, dark hair and blue eyes. / He is dark and not particularly handsome, with a too-long nose, but he has beautiful blue eyes. He is well into his middle years. He wears his hair close cropped and has a pointed beard.

Spoiler :

Mursilis from Civ3Conquests is Alsalam of Arad Doman

Spoiler :

Teuta by R8XFT is Aliandre of Ghealdan
She is short of her middle years and quite lovely despite a nose perhaps too long for beauty. She has dark hair. / She is in her middle years. She is short with very long dark hair and a long nose.

Spoiler :

Pompey by R8XFT is Pedron Niall of Amadicia (Whitecloaks)
He is all sinew and bone, with white hair. He has dark eyes.

Spoiler :

Cartimandua by R8XFT is Berelain of Mayene
She is very beautiful with long black hair and dark eyes.

Spoiler :

Gundahar by R8XFT is Roedran of Murandy

Spoiler :

Evita Peron by CivArmy s. 1994 is Tylin of Altara
...she has a regal bearing. She has glossy black hair with some gray at the temples. She is not young and has some gray, but she is handsome with large dark eyes.

Spoiler :

Zenobia by R8XFT is Amathera of Tarabon
She is well short of her middle years. She is lovely with a pouty mouth and dark hair. / She has dark hair, large dark eyes, and a petulant rosebud mouth.

Spoiler :

Galldrian of Cairhien

Spoiler :

Aleis Barsalla, First Counsel of Far Madding
She is tall and stately. She has black hair with white wings and an unlined face. She has dark eyes.

Spoiler :

Rhuarc, Clan Chief of the Taardad Aiel

Spoiler :

Kennar Miraj, Captain-General of the Deathwatch Guard of the Seanchan

Spoiler :

Moridin, Nae'blis of the Shadow

Spoiler :

 

[Micaelus]

Yet to be filled LHs

• King Ailron of Amadicia (if Pedron Niall is seen as inappropriate)
  He is somewhat handsome with a long nose and big ears. His full, wavy, dark hair is receding.
  
• Morgase of Andor
  Beauty, matured and ripened. Her face and figure, her presence, fill the room like a light. She has blue eyes and long red-gold curls.
  
• The Amrylin Seat
  
• Nesta din Reas Two Moons, Sea Folk Mistress of Ships
  She is an old woman with white hair, as short and stocky. She has six rings in each ear and a nose ring. Tanned skin.
  
• Sevanna of the Shaido Aiel.
  
• Chiape or Shaofan, the Sh'boan and Sh'botay of Shara. (if Shara is included at all)
  Attractive with very dark skin.
  

 

[Sovin nai]

I edited the original thread to include your leaderhead descriptions.

I think that the first one for Amathera looks better, but I seem to recall that Taraboners were at least a little dark-skinned. Is that right? It might not be. If it is right, then the second one would be better.

 

[Micaelus]

I'll keep putting my synthesis of my thoughts with thoughts from this thread, the previous (ancient) thread down here and maybe they will draw some critiques/suggestions for improvement.

Alerum68, back in the day, was against the idea of having Tar Valon as a separate city state so it wouldn't start going to war with different nations, rather than just hating the Shadow. This is seems valid, and then also allows all Randland nations to build Aes Sedai, which would help to balance the game a bit, which will be difficult as is. Unfortunately, that means that Aes Sedai from Tear could be attacking Aes Sedai from Illian, which is problematic, but may be better than Tar Valon going to war with the Borderlands and Andor with stacks of Aes Sedai and neither of those nations having any. The question arises as to which nation gets Tar Valon, however. (Discussion is definitely necessary on all these points.)

Still, taking from Sovin Nai's earlier post, I've developed the following possibilities for female channelers, in graphic form.

Spoiler :

This above diagram would be similar for the Seanchan, Aiel, and Sea Folk, save it would allow Damane, Wise Ones, and Windfinders, respectively, and probably be limited to one of these resources. Perhaps it would also allow Shadowspawn to build Dreadlords late in the game.

Turning to the Dragon Reborn and his Asha'man, it is more complex. There are two options--one is what is diagrammed in two versions below. Here, any Randland (and possibly Aiel) nation could find the Dragon Reborn resource and build the Rebirth of the Dragon wonder (if this were on a random map) which would spit out a Dragon Reborn unit and become obsolete (this will require tweaking) and also allow the spacerace victory option. It would also allow the building of Asha'man.

Spoiler :

OR the Rebirth Wonder would allow the Black Tower which will produce Asha'man. (I think I like this more, to limit the number of Asha'man.) In both situations, Asha'man are only available to the civ of the Dragon Reborn.

Spoiler :

(Another possibility is to drop the Dragon Resource from both models and just have whoever builds the Wonder first dictate who gets the Dragon and Black Tower.)

The divergent possibility, not represented here, is to allow the non-Shaido Aiel to be the People of the Dragon and exist as their own civilization, limiting the above male channeling features to them alone.

Also it's possibly not best to have so many powerful features limited to 1 civ, so perhaps the space race could be re-envisioned, perhaps as a Shadow victory...I'm not sure. Hopefully these ideas can spur discussion.

 

[alerum68]

I hate to beat a dead horse here guys, but you should really transfer this over to Civ4. I ran into problems trying to make this work with Civ3's limited modding abilities. We couldn't do much more then a map, units, and techs. No real rule changes, or anything like that. Civ4 has so many more possiblities that you CAN make Tar Valon it's own city state, but also make it so it cannot attack anyone but The Shadow. This is the reason the project died last time... alot of great ideas, but no way to implement them. PLEASE, if any of you use Civ4, then think about how much easier it is to modify Civ4... you can even go into the core of the game with the SDK, and design it anyway you want, with the only real thing staying constant is being the game is turned based.

Anyway, whatever you decide to do, Good Luck!

 

[John_Deere]

I applaud your efforts to take on this rather large task. It would be quite rewarding to see this come to fruitation.
However, I must agree with alerum68. Most of WoT's features are simply too complex for the editor that comes with C3C. You guys spent a few pages on the previous thread just trying to figure out how to implement the Ways. The days when the first page of the Creation and Customization sub-forum would all have threads with new posts every day are gone. If you moved the game to CivIV, not only would the gameplay be much better, but there are alot more people at the CivIV forums who are willing to help out. As frustating as it to see all of these excellent units by CamJH, the planning, and the Randland map go to waste, CivIV is simply a better choice.
But as alerum68 said, whatever you chose to do, Good Luck!

 

[Micaelus]

Call me stubborn, call me stupid...call me what you will, but I want to do what can be done within the restrictions of C3C. It won't be a flawless recreation of the WoT world, which is something I accepted before I began posting on this. Attacking the depth of CivIV isn't on my horizon at the moment, for better or worse. Perhaps it will be at some point, but I feel compelled to tackle this challenge at the moment.

The least that can happen is the units, map, etc will be packaged together in some sort of usable form.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

While I on occasion pull the game out and give it a go. I no longer have any interest in doing serious modding. However, should you get something together I'd love to give it a whirl. I do have some thoughts in general which may help to get something that will work within the game engine of c3c.
1) You can create a bunch of scenarios placing the player in the shoes of one of the main characters. Example: small map, player is Rand, player starts out with a colony of sheep (Rand's home) and a small town (Two Rivers), Object: deliver the wine to Two River's Inn while avoiding the shadow spawn.
2) Create a basic setup that has the civs, the map, but none of the complicated stuff. A chance to play on the map, maybe good enough for some of us...
I'm sure you can think of some other ideas that would use the units and be easier to create given the engine,s lack of flexibility.

 

[Micaelus]

Thinking that the rebase option would be utilized for the Ways, I figured a graphic for Waygates would be necessary to replace the Airbases. (They could be built by Ogiers, I suppose, if not on a pre-placed map.) I used Lusikka755's Chaosgate building and added some c'n'p trees to provide the feel of being in a Stedding.
The following is the result:

Spoiler :

Also, I've just started the daunting task of building a .biq ...the big troubles I'm having in conceiving the MOD (besides the C3C limitations that have been brought up repeatedly) are coming up with enough techs for a 4 era game and, subsequently, units to precede the main flavor units for each nation in order to preserve the whole 'progress-feel' that is Civ.

Thoughts from any modders on how to deal with a mod/scenario of established nations and make it more than "here are some cities and units, now go fight" would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Micaelus]

While I'm not meaning to hold a conversation with myself on this thread, I wanted any who had read this thread to be aware that I haven't disappeared--it's simply finals season (I'm a grad student) and my priorities are currently elsewhere. I'd still love feedback, ideas, or answers to some of the questions I posed above (mostly dealing with devising a tech framework in a mod within a fairly short period of time and without much technological progress occurring...).

What I have been doing when time permits: continuing to gather graphics from the Forum for improvements, converting WoT fan art to indexed PCXs for wondersplashes, and continuing to flesh out the unit lines more fully. In that vein, I'm editing the dog out of the PTW Conquistador unit to be used as the Tairen flavor mounted unit. (He seems to fit quite well...see the Path of Daggers cover art.) I'm mostly done with the Attack A animation. Here's a still preview.

 

[Sovin nai]

That looks very good. I am not very good at thinking up techs, unfortunately, but I'll help in any way I can.

 

[Micaelus]

Well it has been quite a while since I have posted as to the progress of putting this MOD together, so it's probably about time to do so. Above, I have added a few new leaderheads for some of the civs...you'll see that some of them have yet to be found. I do have some ideas for the unfilled leaderheads, but I've been picky and haven't settled on them. That should happen soon and I'll upload pics at that time.

Additionally, units have fallen into place and I have completed the unit charts for the Randland civs. (Aiel, Shadow, Seanchan, and Sea Folk are mostly finished, but not as fully fleshed out). There is a generic group of medieval units that makes the backbone of all the units, including one defensive, one offensive, one ranged, and one mounted unit at three different levels--Villiage Milita, Noble House, and Royal/National. Additionally, there are naval units to be open to all civs. **Each civ has at least 2 unique units (units which replace the generic units for that civ) or special units (units in addition to the generic group of units)** The charts will be included in subsequent posts beginning today (hopefully finished today as well).

So far as the actual MOD folder and .biq, that process has begun and I have replaced all civs with the WoT civs and completely installed the leaderheads. I have also added the units that will appear in the following charts. They are currently without A/D/M, etc. stats but they are in the correct folders, listed in the .biq, and in the Pedia .txts. I'm still working on improvements/wonders (the project began by Ninna will help greatly in fleshing these out completely) and have not made much progress on the tech tree as of yet. That should hopefully start coming along soonish...

As always, I would appreciate feedback from any reading the thread.

 

[Micaelus]

 

[Micaelus]

 

[Micaelus]

These are units which I feel need to appear in the MOD but I haven't defined to whom they'll belong and really what function they'll fulfill. Ideas welcome.

 

[Micaelus]

The unit charts for the non-Randland civs are not as large, as can be plainly seen below. Do other units need to be found for the Aiel and Shadowspawn? My personal feeling is that there is enough diversity in the Shadowspawn and if balanced right they will put up the good fight they are intended to. I'm unsure if the Aiel are too narrow, though again they may serve their purpose with only these few units. The Seanchan a better breadth, though archers are notably missing as the only 'Samurai Archer' I could find doesn't have the crested helmet and thus is given to the Borderlands. Should it be given to the Seanchan as well?

 

[Stormrage]

nice!

 

[Micaelus]

Here are some of the images I converted for use as Tech icons (even if the techs are not as yet defined). As I was making them, I made Wonder Splashes as well, in case any of them make more sense to use as a Wonder instead.
They are all indexed and the appropriate sizes, though have yet to be tested in-game.

 

[Micaelus]

Row 1: The Ways, Whitebridge, The Horn of Valere, Callandor
Row 2: Aes Sedai testing Ter'angreal, Seven Towers of Malkier, Bowl of Winds, The Forerunners/The Return
Row 3: The Saa/Nae'blis, Tar Valon (Shining Walls/White Tower), Cold Rocks Hold, Rhuidean
Row 4: Choedan Kal (Cairhien), Choedan Kal (Tremalking), Stone of Tear, Crown of Swords
Row 5: Sun Throne of Cairhien, alt Sun Throne or perhaps Lion Throne of Andor

 

[Stormrage]

Very nice!