How does that wonder that gives you +$25 per excess happy work, is it a one off? Is it disneyland? Anyway i built it + the 0 happiness wonder (might be disneyland) but Im not getting any money from it. Was it a 1 off? If so thats pretty sh1t - even is I have 100 extra happies $2500 is what I earn running 90% science at the moment..
The Wonder Balance (encyclopedia)
- Thread starter Aevum
- Start date
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
No, it is supposed to be every turn, and I thought it was for every extra happy face in your nation.
no it couldn't be for your entire nation, what if your playing gigantic and have 100 cities all with 20 happy faces, 2000*$25 = $50,000 per turn
Just played and realised it IS for entire nation I have 18 cities and am making +$20,000 a turn after building wembley station despite running a deficit of -$1,000 per turn... um.. that is clearly stupidly unbalanced.
With encyclopedia + wembley I can run 100% espionage still have all the recent techs, have a huge surplus economy - then bribe every city in the world in less than 300 turns! 
With encyclopedia + wembley I can run 100% espionage still have all the recent techs, have a huge surplus economy - then bribe every city in the world in less than 300 turns!
DRJ
Hedonist
Just played and realised it IS for entire nation I have 18 cities and am making +$20,000 a turn after building wembley station despite running a deficit of -$1,000 per turn... um.. that is clearly stupidly unbalanced.
With encyclopedia + wembley I can run 100% espionage still have all the recent techs, have a huge surplus economy - then bribe every city in the world in less than 300 turns!
Yes middle/late game can get very unbalanced, I experienced something else and ended that game... To have a temporary solution, as long as balancing is not finished (and perhaps never will be), I suggest once more what I alreadyposted here [implicitly also covering spy economics]:
Spoiler :
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Just played and realised it IS for entire nation I have 18 cities and am making +$20,000 a turn after building wembley station despite running a deficit of -$1,000 per turn... um.. that is clearly stupidly unbalanced.
With encyclopedia + wembley I can run 100% espionage still have all the recent techs, have a huge surplus economy - then bribe every city in the world in less than 300 turns!
OK, I thought it might be unbalanced but have not managed to play far enough to be sure since I seem to spend my time testing and adding earlier stuff. It is one of Platyping's python wonders. Any suggestions on how to fix it for C2C? It is a national wonder at the moment but making it a world wonder would be even more unbalanced.
Maybe a reduction in Maintenance per Happy Face (5% each should be good enough) in every city so that every city counts on it's own and smaller cities with lots of excess happy get a bigger benefit than a mature city near it's capacity. Probably good to have maintenance reduction maxed out at some point though so you can't (apart from city celebrations) get below 25% maintenance when including everything like Courthouses and other increases and reductions in maintenance.
Having building maintenance (-gold buildings like the science buildings) being moved over to City Maintenance like Koshling suggested would still make the wonder really good but not as good as it seems to be now.
Cheers
Having building maintenance (-gold buildings like the science buildings) being moved over to City Maintenance like Koshling suggested would still make the wonder really good but not as good as it seems to be now.
Cheers
I think you need to look at these balance problems very simply at first.
The problem is the wonder is WAY too powerful.
*25 gold per happy citizen across all your cities.
Solution:
Reduce it drastically.
*2.5 gold per happy citizen.
Im menzies this game and i have those two tokyo wonders that increase broadcast towers happies, so each broadcast tower gives me +10 happies (for example)
Each of my cities has an average of 44 excess happy people. (i have most of the happy buildings and pretty much every single resource)
so 44 times 2.5 = $110 per turn ( still quite a nice return
this is much more reasonable than $1,100 per turn per city)
$110 might seem alot but I am charismatic trait etc so it wouldn't normally be this high.
Problem no. 2 -
Encyclopedia - Free tech if 2 civs already have it - never expires.
Solution: Free tech if (total number of civs divided by 3 *rounded up!) has it. Also should expire with something like computer networks, you might also want to reduce the cost of wonder depending on its expiry time i feel.. These final decisions such as when it should expire or the exact number of civs required for free tech should be derived through play testing and feedback, but you really really need to start on the small side of things first.
Problem 3.
Spy costs - This needs to increase with each era- So in modern + transhuman era when I can easily make 10,000 spy points a turn, being able to bribe All TOP 5 CITIES OF THE WORLD for under 100,000 and still have change is clearly ridiculous.
Solution-
Spy costs across the board (maybe something can be excluded) need to be increased by x2 each era. Something similar to this.. not sure exactly but at the moment bribe city and plant nuclear device, and force civic change(causing anarchy), religion change (causing anarchy), these are obvious ones that really need to be increased.
Honestly, I think Hydromancerx needs to look at any new wonder and introduce them to the game where they have the MINIMUM impact.
So using wembley as an example, it should start off at $.25 of and see how it affects gameplay, you don't start at the opposite end of the spectrum where these little things (such as wonders) can ruin the ENTIRE game..
Im not trying to be a d1ck or anything or sound ungrateful, but balance should be thought of as more precious than what it is currently.
Try and get a balance ---------- A steady nice balance --------- then introduce things to try and not disturb this balance ----------
Don't make wonders and buildings and units and hero units and great farmers and great projects that are superman powerful. Im not saying don't add these things at all, they are GREAT, im saying make them on the weaker side, and then see how you go..
The problem is the wonder is WAY too powerful.
*25 gold per happy citizen across all your cities.
Solution:
Reduce it drastically.
*2.5 gold per happy citizen.
Im menzies this game and i have those two tokyo wonders that increase broadcast towers happies, so each broadcast tower gives me +10 happies (for example)
Each of my cities has an average of 44 excess happy people. (i have most of the happy buildings and pretty much every single resource)
so 44 times 2.5 = $110 per turn ( still quite a nice return
this is much more reasonable than $1,100 per turn per city)$110 might seem alot but I am charismatic trait etc so it wouldn't normally be this high.
Problem no. 2 -
Encyclopedia - Free tech if 2 civs already have it - never expires.
Solution: Free tech if (total number of civs divided by 3 *rounded up!) has it. Also should expire with something like computer networks, you might also want to reduce the cost of wonder depending on its expiry time i feel.. These final decisions such as when it should expire or the exact number of civs required for free tech should be derived through play testing and feedback, but you really really need to start on the small side of things first.
Problem 3.
Spy costs - This needs to increase with each era- So in modern + transhuman era when I can easily make 10,000 spy points a turn, being able to bribe All TOP 5 CITIES OF THE WORLD for under 100,000 and still have change
is clearly ridiculous. Solution-
Spy costs across the board (maybe something can be excluded) need to be increased by x2 each era. Something similar to this.. not sure exactly but at the moment bribe city and plant nuclear device, and force civic change(causing anarchy), religion change (causing anarchy), these are obvious ones that really need to be increased.
Honestly, I think Hydromancerx needs to look at any new wonder and introduce them to the game where they have the MINIMUM impact.
So using wembley as an example, it should start off at $.25 of and see how it affects gameplay, you don't start at the opposite end of the spectrum where these little things (such as wonders) can ruin the ENTIRE game..
Im not trying to be a d1ck or anything or sound ungrateful, but balance should be thought of as more precious than what it is currently.
Try and get a balance ---------- A steady nice balance --------- then introduce things to try and not disturb this balance ----------
Don't make wonders and buildings and units and hero units and great farmers and great projects that are superman powerful. Im not saying don't add these things at all, they are GREAT, im saying make them on the weaker side, and then see how you go..
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I did not make Wembley. I think DH did by converted Platyping's Wonders. Talk to him about balancing it.
Personally I think it should require one of the Sports techs like "Modern Sports". It also should not be a national wonder in my opinion. Especially when we have the National Sports League Stadium as a National Wonder.
maybe just delete it altogether, who cares..
but the other two glaring balance issues NEED to be addressed coz at the moment its clearly unbalanced to the point where the game is nearly broken because of it.
Can i simply delete these two ( wembley + encyclopedia) from the game? Could someone tell me where they are listed so i can delete there code.. will it have implications if I do this?
but the other two glaring balance issues NEED to be addressed coz at the moment its clearly unbalanced to the point where the game is nearly broken because of it.
Can i simply delete these two ( wembley + encyclopedia) from the game? Could someone tell me where they are listed so i can delete there code.. will it have implications if I do this?
platyping
Sleeping Dragon
1) Wembly is still ok in BTS games because you don't get Extra 20+ Happiness in your cities by mid game. Thus, the question should be why you get so much extra happiness in C2C.
Simple solution, add a limit to gold added per turn.
2) Encyclopedia. Just let it obsolete?
Simple solution, add a limit to gold added per turn.
2) Encyclopedia. Just let it obsolete?
Hi there Slick.
I posted a problem with having Civs/3 (or any other number) as a stipend for free tech. With Revolutions and Barb Cities growing into Nations the number of civs can drastically increase during the game if those two game options are set, or just one of them.
Even if starting with 9 players (3 needed to have a tech for gain from Encyclopedia) by the time it is built there could easily be 30+ civs, basically leaving the Encyclopedia with only a +15% Science Boost (which is very powerful anyway).
My suggestion was to increase Tech Diffusion for whomever owned the Encyclopedia instead of simply granting free techs. It would be almost the same effect anyway as you'd end up with less turns to research those techs you'd be researching after others have them, making it worth your while to wait with fringe techs anyway, same as it would be if you were granted free techs, and the only difference would be a few turns and actually needing to set your research on them at some point.
Cheers
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
In Civ III Rise and Rule, where the Encyclopedia comes from, the Great Library gives you tech any 3 have up until it expires with Education iirc, then Encyclopedia is the same until Computers, then Internet until the end of the game. They were not over balanced then. In early RoM they were the same and were also basically balanced. So why not go back to that?
As to Wembly Stadium the main problem besides the decimal point is that in C2C if it has a name then it can't be a national wonder even when its bonuses are only of national wonder level eg West Point, Oxford University and Wall Street. All national wonders in BtS because that is what they are,
As to Wembly Stadium the main problem besides the decimal point is that in C2C if it has a name then it can't be a national wonder even when its bonuses are only of national wonder level eg West Point, Oxford University and Wall Street. All national wonders in BtS because that is what they are,
Hello guys, just started playing this mod recently, and I have to give credit to all you people for putting in the work and making such an awesome mod. I did a playthrough through all the eras on snail speed, and I noticed 2 wonders in particular which I felt were giving way too much benefit for the cost of creating them.
The first is the wembley station allready discussed here. Due to a very big map, and a too low initial difficulty, I suddenly got 120k every turn from this wonder. Besides the value being too high, it allso doesnt get counted in the economic overview, or the turncounter which shows your income / turn. If The wonder were to be reduced to just give the 25 gold per happyness in the city it was built in, it could still be very strong if built in a city with a lot of happyness, without breaking the game entirely. If it gives 2,5 gold for every excess happyness I think it would still be too strong on the bigger maps (in my case it would still give 12k a turn, which is excessive compared to other similair wonders).
The second wonder i felt was way too strong is the Fusion Plant (not sure about the exact name, its the National wonder you can built 3 times with the Fusion Tech that gives you a Power: Fusion in every city on the continent). The 1000 production you get in every city from this wonder can give more production in total then all other buildings and wonders combined. Especially taking into account that all the modifiers from forges, factories, civics etc get applied to it as well. Just building this wonder increased production by tenfold in my more undevelloped cities (from 300 to 3k) and in my production capital it nearly doubled my production per turn from 8k to 15k. Another side effect; building this wonder, and then switching all cities to produce science can potentially quadruple (or more) your science output.
The first is the wembley station allready discussed here. Due to a very big map, and a too low initial difficulty, I suddenly got 120k every turn from this wonder. Besides the value being too high, it allso doesnt get counted in the economic overview, or the turncounter which shows your income / turn. If The wonder were to be reduced to just give the 25 gold per happyness in the city it was built in, it could still be very strong if built in a city with a lot of happyness, without breaking the game entirely. If it gives 2,5 gold for every excess happyness I think it would still be too strong on the bigger maps (in my case it would still give 12k a turn, which is excessive compared to other similair wonders).
The second wonder i felt was way too strong is the Fusion Plant (not sure about the exact name, its the National wonder you can built 3 times with the Fusion Tech that gives you a Power: Fusion in every city on the continent). The 1000 production you get in every city from this wonder can give more production in total then all other buildings and wonders combined. Especially taking into account that all the modifiers from forges, factories, civics etc get applied to it as well. Just building this wonder increased production by tenfold in my more undevelloped cities (from 300 to 3k) and in my production capital it nearly doubled my production per turn from 8k to 15k. Another side effect; building this wonder, and then switching all cities to produce science can potentially quadruple (or more) your science output.
I agree with you about the Fusion power plant; I think there are 2 solutions:
1) give the bonus only to the city where it is built
2) give to the cities on the same continent only a small percentage bonus (I dont know exactly, maybe +25%? ), removing the 1000 hammers bonus
1) give the bonus only to the city where it is built
2) give to the cities on the same continent only a small percentage bonus (I dont know exactly, maybe +25%? ), removing the 1000 hammers bonus
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Fusion plant will be needed for the Space stuff that's not in the mod yet. You will need an astronomical amount of hammers to produce stuff and without Fusion Power Plants you will not be able to build the stuff needed for space colonization.
Maybe it needs to ramp up more slowly. I haven't had a game that far progressed, but from the posts above it might be that whoever gets it first would have such a huge advantage (on earth) that they'd prevent anyone else ever seeing space anyway, and making the entire space part irrelevant. Alternatievly maybe we need some mechanic that makes the production bonus only apply to certyain (space-oriented?) things - e.g. - give it production modifiers for a (space) unit class or soemthign instead of quite so many hammers?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Welcome to CFC.
I have dropped it down to 2.5 per happy in beta (SVN) for people to test it. The reason it is not showing in the Economic Overview is because it is a "python wonder". I expect that all python wonders are not showing up.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
platyping
Sleeping Dragon
You can always adjust the codes to change the commerce/gold provided by the building itself every turn.
Then the amount provided will be shown directly on the building and it will be affected by banks, markets etc and thus its effects will also be shown in financial advisor
Then the amount provided will be shown directly on the building and it will be affected by banks, markets etc and thus its effects will also be shown in financial advisor
Similar threads
