The Worst UU!

[Swiss Bezerker]

I agree with Gogf:getting astronomy fast and conquering a weak nation(while destroying there shipping with its extra attack)on the other contenant is great.Im saying aztec JW i was OK in Civ 3 gold but they jacked up the price 5 shields now it is pure bad

 

[Gogf]

Can't agree there. In most games, the suicide galley effort starts at Map Making, and succeeds at the latest around Theology. If you wait until Astronomy to make contact with the other continent, it's already too late. You're missing out on the brokering chances of most of the middle ages, and some more advanced AIs may have Navigation already.

The carrack is just a transport with an extra useless attack point. It is no better than the unit that it replaces.

Hm... Perhaps on smaller maps, but on large maps with enough ocean coverage, it can take a galley five turns to cross the ocean, which gives you no chance with Suicide galleys. It's not that hard to keep up in techs in the late middle ages with the civs you have contact with, so you should be able to rush a carrack or two before they can get Navigation.

Also, in an age of purely defensive ships, the extra attack point is quite nice. With the seafaring bonus thrown in, the Carrack can be extremely powerful.

EDIT: After reading over the rest of the thread, I'm clearly not alone in this opinion .

 

[Corvex]

The F-15 is a very, very bad unit. Jet Fighters are pretty much useless at the best of times, but having a UU that late in the game is just stupid. 90% of the time, the Americans are annihilated before they even reach modern times.

 

[RegentMan]

I am playing a game right now with America. An F-15 just triggered my golden age. Now, with the modern wonders being built and me being drug into World War Three, this F-15 induced golden age is actually quite useful. Remember, the F-15 is the best fighter out there. Your opponents will never be able to build anything better. Immortals are pretty good, but eventually cavalry come along. The F-15 is nice and no one can ever produce anything more powerful.

 

[gunnerxtr]

stealth fighter isnt better than the F-15?

 

[Dreadnought]

the stealth fighter is worse than the F-15...only good thing is its hard to hit, but besides that...

 

[Scuffer]

This has been debated much, and the overall consensus is that the new American unit should be a super aircraft carrier, really currently the symbol of it's power. I tried to find the thread, but couldn't.

It would still be a really crummy UU. Very late in the game, not desperately useful anyway (IMHO). PLus how would it kill anything to start a golden age? It's basically a transport for planes. Maybe if a plane launched from it killed something, but that makes it even less worthwhile than the f15.

 

[Grohan]

F-15 and Chasqui scout.
F-15 comes too late and isn't that big improvement over Jets.
Chasqui scout would other wise be OK but its too expensive so it slows down your expansion.
But F-15 is still worse.

 

[MeteorPunch]

It would still be a really crummy UU. Very late in the game, not desperately useful anyway (IMHO). PLus how would it kill anything to start a golden age? It's basically a transport for planes. Maybe if a plane launched from it killed something, but that makes it even less worthwhile than the f15.

It would be cool if they could get it to launch GA somehow. Double the plane capacity and give it some attack power and it would be useful...in the modern age.

 

[RegentMan]

F-15 and Chasqui scout.
F-15 comes too late and isn't that big improvement over Jets.
Chasqui scout would other wise be OK but its too expensive so it slows down your expansion.
But F-15 is still worse.

Your logic doesn't make sense. "The F-15 comes too late and isn't a big improvement over jets" is your case for the F-15. However, your justification for the Chasqui scout is that it slows down your expansion. In Civ III, expansion is king. If you lose even one settler to a barbarian early on, you're severly handicapped. I fail to see how losing the game from the start is worse than having a unit which you have forever and that no one can ever build anything better. With the F-15, you rule the skies. It never becomes obsolete. Immortals and siphai go bye-bye; the F-15 does not.

 

[Scuffer]

It would be cool if they could get it to launch GA somehow. Double the plane capacity and give it some attack power and it would be useful...in the modern age.

Yeah, that might make it worthwhile - maybe even too powerful.

@regentman
F-15 never become obsolete, true. But they are only valuable if the game gets that far, you are at war and the game is still in the balance. A good earlier UU (and sensibly time GA) can put you in a position where you simply can't lose.

 

[RegentMan]

Even if you know that you're going to win the game, knowing that your skies are properly defended will make it go quicker/easier. Plus the same can be said for any unit. You could be Persia and not have iron. A destructive early war for the resource could put you so far behind that a golden age couldn't even save you.

 

[Dreadnought]

F-15s are ok, because while all the other civs had their GA, you will get yours. You would have more shields being produced, which makes modern armors come quicker, and it could win a war (it did for me)

 

[Corvex]

Really, I think that the American UU should be 'US Marine.' Like a regular marine, only with two movement and blitz.

You say Chasqui scouts are lame? There's a string of Mayan widows between Cuzco and Chichen Itza who might tend to disagree. They're actually pretty good, you've just got to use them right away.

 

[S!n!st3r]

It would be cool if they could get it to launch GA somehow. Double the plane capacity and give it some attack power and it would be useful...in the modern age.

I still don't think it would be too good, it would come near the end of the game, with a GA way too late. If it came earlier, it might be ok. Possibly a Aircraft Carrier from WW2, they were small and fast, and used in the Pacific, instead of building massive ones. I have forgot their name (the only time I can't think of it ) They might have like a lot more movement or sumthing.

 

[Dreadnought]

You say Chasqui scouts are lame? There's a string of Mayan widows between Cuzco and Chichen Itza who might tend to disagree. They're actually pretty good, you've just got to use them right away.

Using them right away takes time away from building settlers. Also, you start with a scout, so you don't need another one (or do you ) So it basically takes time away from the expansion of your civ

 

[S!n!st3r]

I still don't think it would be too good, it would come near the end of the game, with a GA way too late. If it came earlier, it might be ok. Possibly a Aircraft Carrier from WW2, they were small and fast, and used in the Pacific, instead of building massive ones. I have forgot their name (the only time I can't think of it ) They might have like a lot more movement or sumthing.

Just remembered!!Essex Carrier

 

[RegentMan]

Using them right away takes time away from building settlers. Also, you start with a scout, so you don't need another one (or do you ) So it basically takes time away from the expansion of your civ

If you're expansonist, you must take advantage of your trait and pump out three or four additional scouts. This is where the Incas are handicapped; for the price of two regular scouts, they can only build one Chasqui scout.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

There are good UUs (Ansars, Immortals), mediocre UUs (Cossacks, Panzers), situational UUs (Carracks, Conquistadors, Keshiks) - and there is the F-15 and the Chasqui.

The F-15 at least is better than the unit it replaces; in the rare occassion a game isn't won at that time, they're a small help.
The Chasqui seems to be deliberately added to weaken a Civ that would be otherwise overpowered due to its traits.

And no, there is no 'common opinion' a Carrier would be in any way better than the F-15. A useful UU would be a better Para, or Marine. Please don't come with that silly Minuteman myth again . I could name a comparable militia unit for almost any Civ...

 

[Arachnaphobia]

), mediocre UUs (Cossacks, Panzers),

Panzers aren't all that bad, I mean, they can be quite useful.