There is no single greatest military unit in Civ3 - ?
- Thread starter John Lenin
- Start date
JonathanValjean
Porschephile
In order of strength and sure-fire infliction of damage to your opponent:
1) ICBM
2) Tactical Nuke
3) Cruise Missile
4) Modern Armor
5) Tank
Honorable Mention: Artillery. It is HM because, if used alone, it can not "defeat" the enemy. Used synergistically with other units and en masse, however, it is an extremely powerful unit, and essential to a quick and decisive military campaign.
Note: some may question my inclusion of the cruise missle. The reason I put it at number 3 is, although it is not cost effective as compared to tanks and modern armor, cruise missles ALWAYS inflict damage, sometimes lethal. This is in comparison to MA and tanks, in which case the RNG may foil our plans once in a while.
1) ICBM
2) Tactical Nuke
3) Cruise Missile
4) Modern Armor
5) Tank
Honorable Mention: Artillery. It is HM because, if used alone, it can not "defeat" the enemy. Used synergistically with other units and en masse, however, it is an extremely powerful unit, and essential to a quick and decisive military campaign.
Note: some may question my inclusion of the cruise missle. The reason I put it at number 3 is, although it is not cost effective as compared to tanks and modern armor, cruise missles ALWAYS inflict damage, sometimes lethal. This is in comparison to MA and tanks, in which case the RNG may foil our plans once in a while.
When one thinks he would be sure it's better not to be surtain who will win. If being lucky tank could win against modern armor but I think there is no chanse spearman wins against tank - if needed he even could be run over. But... civ sometimes makes spearmen stronger than Hercules (not sure for spelling). Even he will be scared to face tank (or at least I think so). So I think battles are more random than thay should be
. I think there is no way that spearman wins vs ICBM (maybe I should say hope but I haven't seen it yet if the ICBM is not just sleeping in the town)
. I think there is no way that spearman wins vs ICBM (maybe I should say hope but I haven't seen it yet if the ICBM is not just sleeping in the town)I disagree with many things said here.
To me, Artillery Units and Bombers are king. In C3C, they got lethal bombardment.
A tiny land force, Tanks or Infantry, plus lots of Artillery and Bombers form a deadly stack of doom. Bombers add the element of high mobility.
There is no real "combined arms" warfare in Civ3. There is a distinction between defensive and offensive unit types, fast and 1-move units. The faster usually being better attackers for various reasons like retreat ability or mobility.
But why rank people nukes so high? Because of their one-shot destructive power? They are useful as long as the enemy has none, as soon as other nations have nukes, you can have a cleaner victory when resorting to non-nuclear means...
Cruise Missiles being ranked before Modern Armor is more than questionable. For the one-shot price of a CM you can have much more efficient units like bombers, artillery, Tanks... they have their uses, but come on, they are never the mainstay of any Civ3-Army!!! nor is their destructive potential great.
20 Artillery, 10 Bombers and 4 Mech Infantry to protect the Arty stack - what do you need more?
You can increase the size to 50 Arty, 30 Bombers and 10 Mech Infantry and take cities without the enemy ever firing back. You might lose a bomber to air defence perhaps, but besides that...
at this stage of the game, it is already decided.
ARTY AND AIRPOWER RULE! ... add in Modern Armor, and say goodbye to the AI.
To me, Artillery Units and Bombers are king. In C3C, they got lethal bombardment.
A tiny land force, Tanks or Infantry, plus lots of Artillery and Bombers form a deadly stack of doom. Bombers add the element of high mobility.
There is no real "combined arms" warfare in Civ3. There is a distinction between defensive and offensive unit types, fast and 1-move units. The faster usually being better attackers for various reasons like retreat ability or mobility.
But why rank people nukes so high? Because of their one-shot destructive power? They are useful as long as the enemy has none, as soon as other nations have nukes, you can have a cleaner victory when resorting to non-nuclear means...
Cruise Missiles being ranked before Modern Armor is more than questionable. For the one-shot price of a CM you can have much more efficient units like bombers, artillery, Tanks... they have their uses, but come on, they are never the mainstay of any Civ3-Army!!! nor is their destructive potential great.
20 Artillery, 10 Bombers and 4 Mech Infantry to protect the Arty stack - what do you need more?
You can increase the size to 50 Arty, 30 Bombers and 10 Mech Infantry and take cities without the enemy ever firing back. You might lose a bomber to air defence perhaps, but besides that...
at this stage of the game, it is already decided.
ARTY AND AIRPOWER RULE! ... add in Modern Armor, and say goodbye to the AI.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
What about mechanical artillery or whatever its called, you know, the modern age version.Tomoyo said:
Tomoyo
Fate
Radar artillery just comes too late. I don't think I have ever used it.
TWC_ShaDowZ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 2
Thank you Tomoyo , because of you my finger has a tick meaning it cant stop clicking on the other hand i do have some more spare time
On the topic 1) Bombers 2) Artillery 3) Modern Armor 4)Mech Inf
I played 5 full games now and im starting to think the arty+bomber+mechs/infantry first is starting to just get lame.
In my last game on emperor the germans (tech leader and about 3 techs ahead of me , no mil techs though , about same pop and territory size) putted a sneak attack on me. I had around 35 arty's , 15 infantry and 15 bombers , after i took his entire empire (around 25 citys) i came to the conclusion i only lost 2 infs in the entire progress , so im trying to play without this combo for now.
On the topic 1) Bombers 2) Artillery 3) Modern Armor 4)Mech Inf
I played 5 full games now and im starting to think the arty+bomber+mechs/infantry first is starting to just get lame.
In my last game on emperor the germans (tech leader and about 3 techs ahead of me , no mil techs though , about same pop and territory size) putted a sneak attack on me. I had around 35 arty's , 15 infantry and 15 bombers , after i took his entire empire (around 25 citys) i came to the conclusion i only lost 2 infs in the entire progress , so im trying to play without this combo for now.
John Lenin
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 56
All good intriguing info - but I still don't really 'get' what all the fuss about artillery is. OK, used in a combined arms force they can help to reduce a numerically and/or technically superior enemy to manageable levels. I will have to play a few more full games to really see any benefit from using this tactic.
But the main inspiration behind my original post was the seeming lack in Civ3 of a clearly superior defensive unit. 2 units of Phalanx and musketeers behind city walls in Civ2 could be pretty much relied upon to cope with all but the heaviest onslaughts. In Civ3 I don't see an equivalent, but this actually improves the game for me, as the 'guaranteed defence' aspect of Civ2 made for a much less nervy time of it as your enemy drew closer. I actually watch the battles in Civ3 with a kind of fascinated attention, emitting groans of despair and pathetic little yelps of joy where appropriate....
Having said that, IF there is a good defensive unit in Civ3, that can be utilised as effectively as the ones in Civ2 behind their city walls, I would love to hear about it. I won my first full game on Warlord very easily, but have become stuck on Regent. I always have a bad start and fail to recover in time.
But the main inspiration behind my original post was the seeming lack in Civ3 of a clearly superior defensive unit. 2 units of Phalanx and musketeers behind city walls in Civ2 could be pretty much relied upon to cope with all but the heaviest onslaughts. In Civ3 I don't see an equivalent, but this actually improves the game for me, as the 'guaranteed defence' aspect of Civ2 made for a much less nervy time of it as your enemy drew closer. I actually watch the battles in Civ3 with a kind of fascinated attention, emitting groans of despair and pathetic little yelps of joy where appropriate....
Having said that, IF there is a good defensive unit in Civ3, that can be utilised as effectively as the ones in Civ2 behind their city walls, I would love to hear about it. I won my first full game on Warlord very easily, but have become stuck on Regent. I always have a bad start and fail to recover in time.
Bombers...lots and lots of bombers. That, coupled with 20 or 30 artillery, will waste anyone.
Tomoyo
Fate
The defensive units? Hoplites?
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
John Lenin said:
The single best defensive unit is an army filled with 4 elite Mech Infs. I don't think in terms of numbers, you can get any better.
But if you put it behind city walls, it is probably still far from invincible. Because the AI is programed to come after the cities no matter what the defense is, and if they send a SoD of 100+, no single unit(or an army) can possibly survive that.
The C3C AI does have a major flaw, that it doesn't attack healthy armies in the open field. So yeah, you can take advantage of that expoit to produce a 'guaranteed defence'.
@ John Lenin
Here's a fresh idea...Arty....the reason you could not defend your territory was...not enough ARTY! IMHO on rails there is almost nothing more powerful over multiple turns. You could be weaker by 3:1 margin and with enough arty beat any MA and MI with simply tanks, cav and inf.
Then you can even take their cities that are within 2 squares of your rails, take the cities and start using THEIR rails.
Here's a fresh idea...Arty....the reason you could not defend your territory was...not enough ARTY! IMHO on rails there is almost nothing more powerful over multiple turns. You could be weaker by 3:1 margin and with enough arty beat any MA and MI with simply tanks, cav and inf.
Then you can even take their cities that are within 2 squares of your rails, take the cities and start using THEIR rails.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
"All good intriguing info - but I still don't really 'get' what all the fuss about artillery is. OK, used in a combined arms force they can help to reduce a numerically and/or technically superior enemy to manageable levels. I will have to play a few more full games to really see any benefit from using this tactic. "
There's plenty of reasons artillery are so powerful:
1. They're cheap.
2. They're really cheap.
3. They're upgradeable.
4. They're very cheaply upgradeable because they're so damn cheap.
5. They don't care about whether or not a Barracks is in the city.
6. They can make it so you're other units (the expensive ones) almost never die.
7. They get a free shot on every counter-attack in addition to their bombard or move on your turn.
8. They're about the only way to get a kill ratio that you need on higher levels.
I'll come back with more when that come to me.
There's plenty of reasons artillery are so powerful:
1. They're cheap.
2. They're really cheap.
3. They're upgradeable.
4. They're very cheaply upgradeable because they're so damn cheap.
5. They don't care about whether or not a Barracks is in the city.
6. They can make it so you're other units (the expensive ones) almost never die.
7. They get a free shot on every counter-attack in addition to their bombard or move on your turn.
8. They're about the only way to get a kill ratio that you need on higher levels.
I'll come back with more when that come to me.
Tomoyo
Fate
Sorry, but what does that mean?
gunkulator
Emperor
Artillery is meant to be used in large stacks. There's really very little benefit in dragging around only a couple. Their chief advantage is that you don't have to keep building tons of other units since your casuality rate will be low. This helps tremendously with war weariness if you use Republic or Democracy.
Even if you don't plan a big offensive soon, it's good to have arties to help counter a surprise AI SOD. Knock a few hps off the units in the stack and they will turn back. No, they won't die, but they'll keep the stack from overwhelming you and give you time to rush units to the front.
Even if you don't plan a big offensive soon, it's good to have arties to help counter a surprise AI SOD. Knock a few hps off the units in the stack and they will turn back. No, they won't die, but they'll keep the stack from overwhelming you and give you time to rush units to the front.
Dumbo Donkey
Chieftain
Correct! There is no "Best" unit. The AI warriors are fearless, even in front of tanks and other modern devices. Oh, by the way, bombers are a whole lot better than artillery. 
There is no "Best" unit. The AI warriors are fearless, even in front of tanks and other modern devices. Oh, by the way, bombers are a whole lot better than artillery. Tomoyo
Fate
How do you figure? Bombers come later, are too slow, and can't bomb on the same turn as they move. Also, they require oil and can be shot down. Even though they can lethally bombard, all those setbacks amke artillery better.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
The ideal, of course, is a combo. A bomber on a redlined infantry is not a guaranteed kill, but pretty close.
klopolov
WarBug
ARTILLERY!!! Now, before reading whole bunch of enries and articles on how good arti is, I NEVER EVER used it. Consider the game I am playing:
Rome is direcly south of me with the same territory and roughly the same power. I have depleted their budget and they cannot stand it anymore, so they declare war. My border city has 40 cavalry, 5 infantry and 30 arti garrisoned in it. I am just beginning to get tanks. I bomb the living hell out of their SOD of knights and cavalry (no money to upgrade the knights) and finish them off with my cavalry. I then move my arti next to their city, garrison 5 infantry with them and move my cavalry there too. I send a spy to them and my eyes start to open very very wide: they have no more offensive units, only 80 infantry! still a lot for my cavalry, but thanks to this site, I got arti. Every turn I take 1 or 2 cities with no casualties. there are not many infantries left now and I have about 20 tanks and more arti now. The fun part, though, is watching their city go from size 15-18 to size 1-4 and all their defenders red lined!!! What other unit could give you such an advantage?!!! Thank you guys for preaching the usefulness of arti!!!
Rome is direcly south of me with the same territory and roughly the same power. I have depleted their budget and they cannot stand it anymore, so they declare war. My border city has 40 cavalry, 5 infantry and 30 arti garrisoned in it. I am just beginning to get tanks. I bomb the living hell out of their SOD of knights and cavalry (no money to upgrade the knights) and finish them off with my cavalry. I then move my arti next to their city, garrison 5 infantry with them and move my cavalry there too. I send a spy to them and my eyes start to open very very wide: they have no more offensive units, only 80 infantry! still a lot for my cavalry, but thanks to this site, I got arti. Every turn I take 1 or 2 cities with no casualties. there are not many infantries left now and I have about 20 tanks and more arti now. The fun part, though, is watching their city go from size 15-18 to size 1-4 and all their defenders red lined!!! What other unit could give you such an advantage?!!! Thank you guys for preaching the usefulness of arti!!!
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