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They need to hotfix AI agression now

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by godman85, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. ayronis

    ayronis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
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    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I agree that the AI appears to be playing more cautiously, but I have also seen much fewer suicidal wars where a dozen units march harmlessly up to the gates of a defended city.

    I have played two games so far on Standard/Standard-Perfectworld3 (one king, one emperor)

    The first game, Isabella and Kamehameha shared a long border and fought a total of six wars in the course of the game. No cities exchanged hands until the modern era, when Kame went Freedom and turtled so Isabella went Autocratic and starting eating her neighbors. She eliminated one and would have eliminated another if I hadn't won the UN vote. All the while this was happening, the rest of the world was exceedingly peaceful because the random civs were all peaceful and had sufficient room to build a decent start with 3-4 good cities.

    In the second game, I added 2 civs and 3 CSs to a standard map and pushed the difficulty up by one. The game is still underway but it is playing very differently. Haile got a tough start next to a superior Gajah, who boxed the Ethiopians in. In the Medieval, Haile asked if I would join a war against Gajah, which I agreed to because I was on the other side of the world and Haile seemed to have a stronger military (Gajah had expanded quickly). The Indonesians went on to take one of Haile's only three cities, driving him further into a hole. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is coalescing into three friendly trade-blocs, but I have seen two invasions of CSs (Denmark and China), and an opportunistic war by Isabella on the militarily weakened Ethiopia. It's still the late Renaissance so I cannot make any conclusions, but the limited space definitely increased the level of violence in the world.

    I understand why people are complaining. The old strategies definitely don't work, and I don't understand the economics of the new game well enough to judge if the AI aggressiveness is broken or not, but I can say that the macro-level, strategic AI seems to have a much better awareness of its actions now. They fit into a much larger diplomatic and political world in a way they never did before.
     
  2. ptoss1

    ptoss1 King

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
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    653
    I just saw Mongolia conquer Russia.
    Mongols are like 300 points above everybody else. It's insane.
    But then they failed at sieging Genoa. So...
     
  3. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
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    Deep inside...
    Exactly what I feel when I am playing now. And the feeling is refreshing, I missed it a lot.
     
  4. teejing

    teejing Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    After 5 easy wins on emporer in which nobody attacked me until ideology ( in 4/5 games i had 0 military units/walls)
    i started a game on immortal and it must be said there has been more war going on.
    Assyria was the pointleader and had by far the biggest army while i had none.
    I voted vs him + i send a great prophet to his holy city and other cities and when he asked me to stop i told him to himself.
    It lead to 6-7 red lines and a hostile stance.
    Around 80 turns on quick speed later he still hasnt attacked but i adopted his ideology turning those 6-7 red lines into green ones in the span of around 30 turns.

    After he has become very friendly to from very hostile he decides to start a war against me! He succesfully takes a city of me and soon after egypt won space victory.

    First let me say i am very happy AI is allowed to wage war vs another civ that has the same ideology, i didnt think this was possible.

    Sadly it again showed me that unlike in civ4 it is very easy and also very worthless getting a civ on friendly status.

    Although i have to admit it made sense for him to attack me since i was 2nd strongest voting power after him, but even with all my votes he would not have had enough + he stopped his war vs egypt which led to an egypt science victory.

    All in all i have to say i am happy i was attacked, but sad that diplomacy is not worth as much as it was in civ4.
     
  5. godman85

    godman85 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    122


    clearly this is a coincidence. Small sample size even though its EVERY GAME YOU PLAYED.

    <insert time i got attacked after ideology without mentioning the 4000 years that passed without a single war>


    BTW. I have proof of the . I made a map with every war civ in the game, cramped it, put 4 victim civs, and built no army.


    Never got attacked. Never saw a war. Medieval period is when i stopped recording,


    http://www.twitch.tv/godman85


    here is the original save if you wanna try that borefest.
     
  6. godman85

    godman85 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
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    122

    give me 50 years in world history where major civs in the world WERNT fighting. You cant in the entirety of the existance of the world. So stop acting like this is more realistic.
     
  7. teejing

    teejing Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
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    realism i just want some diversity and not be 100% sure i will not get attacked until ideology hits ^^

    Just suprise me AI please =)
     
  8. Kailan

    Kailan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Sorry but this boring, 1285AD and just 1 war on my continent of 5 civs. Very very tedious
     
  9. lwCoyote

    lwCoyote Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
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    3
    This makes an incredible amount of sense to me, thank you! I will keep this in mind and maybe play on smaller maps until that gets fixed :D
     
  10. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
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    1,814
    I cant believe that some people in this thread act like things havent changed.
    Bringing stuff like unchanged leader stats up :crazyeye:

    This is like a different game, a totaly different one and by that WAY WAY easier.
    Playing my 1. game, deity pangea and might set a new record spaceship time ... without doing a single war ..
    Japan on one side Mongols on other - both boarder to boarder and what happens - DOF requests from both in like turn 50 - sry this is - like this game aint no challenge anymore. 1 aspect of the game can be totaly neglected. I mean u cant neglect science either why should u be able to neglect miliitary?

    And this obviously isnt be mistake but by design .. Maybe its the bandfix to their horrible tactic ai - with no wars it doesnt matter ..

    This and other comments going same way just arent true - its just conincidence - on deity civs are still rich and still build LOADS of units - they just dont dow anymore. Even when their army is at boarder - it turns around and goes home ..
     
  11. VirtuallyJesse

    VirtuallyJesse Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
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    58
    I've now played 6 games (thank you vacation time), 3 on Immortal and 3 on Emperor. In my 3 Immortal games, which I played first, I had wars all the time. I didn't understand what any of you were talking about. Now my 3 latest games on Emperor (was playing around with culture focus), there were no wars until after Renaissance era and I was never attacked or even denounced once.

    I guess this thread is proof enough now. I think there is some issue with aggressiveness linked to difficulty. Or possibly its with expanding, in my 3 immortal games I went wide, and my 3 emperor I went tall. I don't know, but I hope something changes..
     
  12. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    I still wonder if the intent of AI opponents to be in DoF with you was a trade mechanic to stop you from beating up on them. Same with building lots of units and not using them, what are they trying to accomplish?
     
  13. Scam

    Scam Chieftain

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    It's funny, I've played only 2 games so far. The first game, I played with my dad (on emperor) and I started very close to Alexander and Shaka. They were so close, that they were basically one nation, with cities intertwined with each other. They NEVER went to war, despite the fact that Shaka had a massive army and navy from the start. I eventually invaded Shaka.

    The second game was single player, emperor difficulty. This game I got a DOW from Babylon on turn 40-50, getting rushed by his bowmen and warriors. I need to play more games before I can make a decision on this. The first game I thought was crazy and despite having fun with the new trade systems and what not, could not help thinking that the game would have been way more fun if people were going to war (even if I wasn't included in the war).
     
  14. Securion

    Securion Civ Veteran

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    Not may wars going on, maybe half from G&Ks. But at the same time I feel that the AI feels more sane and logical now. It actually tries to win Cultural, Science and Diplomatic victories now, instead of just starting hopeless wars on enemies far far away and wasting all of its resources.

    I have played one King, two Emperor and two Deity games. Always Continents, Large map, 2 extra civs, 4 extra city-states and standard speed.

    I vote for more wars, but at the same time I don't want the old insane idiot AI back that declares war on everyone and backstab for nothing. No more random DoWs please.
     
  15. animalcross

    animalcross Chieftain

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    My first BNW game had someone conquered within the hundredth turn. My current game already has me and Shaka against Napoleon in the late classical/early medieval. I have no problems.
     
  16. darko82

    darko82 Emperor

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    They have released a crappy game again - I do not buy it!
     
  17. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    Irrelevant.
    They need to just put the AI back where it was. It was perfectly fair if you didn't sit around with literally zero army expecting nobody to take advantage of you.
     
  18. JustinianIV

    JustinianIV Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
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    Yes, this.

    I have never complained about the aggressiveness of the AI in GnK. It made sense; early game had wars which would leave about half of the civs on the map with the second half of the game to work out their politics, economy, science, etc.

    It's like real life. In the ol' days there was a lot of war, and civilizations were quick to conquer and grab land. Those superpowers left standing now are now more "civilized" we focus on collective security and diplomacy, while still plotting in other ways.

    The only problem with GnK was that the "peaceful" portion of the game was boring and BNW was supposed to fix this. I see no need to make the AI peaceful in the early game.

    I'm not saying that this is what is happening in BNW, but I really hope not.
     
  19. Ellye

    Ellye Warlord

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
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    Just got suddenly backstabbed by two of my "friends" during the Medieval Era.

    Seems exactly the same.
     
  20. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    Austin, TX
    So much friendliness as I steal other people's allied CS's in my current Venice game. I half expect my competitors to pop up with helpful tool-tips and siggestions between turns.
     

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