Things that dont make sense in civ.

[kcbrett5]

I was going after all victories in standard game but all im saying is it was insane to make sure that others were not beating me with other victory conditions

Yes I agree. I hate having to make sure other people don't beat me when I am trying to win. It would really be best if I could just announce to the AI what victory condition I was seeking and then they would have to stop trying for all other conditions except the one I choose for them. That would be much more realistic.

 

[Swedishguy]

Sure. 'Hey Julius, were tring to win the Space Race here!'
'Blasted! My military plans spoiled... I'll go for cultural when.'

 

[Winston Hughes]

Chairman Mao being born before 4000bc and surviving 'til the 21st century.

 

[jimbob27]

When my civ discovers space flight before they've discovered regular flight

 

[Swedishguy]

When my civ discovers space flight before they've discovered regular flight

Why do you find that so odd? Firaxis has even given an explanation for that; 'What if civilization took inspiration from artillery instead...'

Anything more?

 

[Xanikk999]

Why do you find that so odd? Firaxis has even given an explanation for that; 'What if civilization took inspiration from artillery instead...'

Anything more?

Rocketry before flight makes a whole lot of sense (It has happened that way actually).

But sophisticated space craft which at the same time are capable of flight before regular flight makes no sense.

 

[Swedishguy]

Any motivation?

 

[Lord of Civ]

Yes I agree. I hate having to make sure other people don't beat me when I am trying to win. It would really be best if I could just announce to the AI what victory condition I was seeking and then they would have to stop trying for all other conditions except the one I choose for them. That would be much more realistic.

Let me make the agreement sound even better.

Finally, that we both agreed that we hated to stop others from winning by launching stupid rocket or having many religious friends to vote for their sick victory and we hated that the Space Race and Diplomatic Victory had put us into an INSANE SITUATION which also ruined the game. Just like the NIGHTMARE ive gone through and that i previously posted. We should also disable these victory conditions since they are stupid type of winning and it would not distract us again.hehehe!!

Imagine, USSR won the USA in Space Race (in which they did(first man into space)) so it is the end of the Cold War race! That is not realistic and completely none sense.

Lets get this wonderful game going on without these none-sense exceptions.

 

[Swedishguy]

You mean USSR has been in Alpha Centauri?

 

[Lord of Civ]

You mean USSR has been in Alpha Centauri?

USSR launced the first man out into space. That means Space Race Victory!!!!! hehehehe!!!

But i would be very mean if i say that "it is because they won space race so it is the end of the cold war". Just like a Civ player launched the rocket first out into space or to Alpha Centauri so the game ended.

Thanks Gosh that the cold war did not really end so USA still could launch the first man to the moon.

 

[JonnyB]

The Space race victory has nothing to do with putting a man in space, it's building a ship that can colonize another planet.
The logic behind it being the end of the game is that the other civs are left behind on an abused and polluted planet. While the civ winning civ gets to start a new life on a new planet w/o competition.
So the Space Race win does make sense IMO

 

[Lord of Civ]

According to history on Cold War, putting Sputnik 1 and the first man out into space (Yuri Gagarin) was a sign of Space Race victory by USSR. Also the newspaper printed out "USSR WON THE SPACE RACE BY SENDING OUT SPUTNIK 1 AS WELL AS THE FIRST HUMAN BEING". (NOT BASE ON THE CIV4)

The game: The idea of Civ going on another planet first and the ending of the game does not make sense since there is still time for others to colonize other planets and also to gain other victories because nobody is perfect. Fine, we can get into Astronomy, there are billions of planets for many civs to colonize. Ending the game and claiming the victory was going too far. I got 1 final SS part which was also about to be done. Why does sending someone to Alpha Centauri means you would always win? I can still get the Time Victory in 2050. The Vikings won the Space Race but they would never win the Time Victory as an example. Standard game ending like this would make me angry. Making me a Mad leader would also annoy me. Anyway, i agree with you about disabling these vict. cond. the next time i play and they should not distract me or annoy me.

Space Race makes sense as long as it does not end the game or ending the cold war. This is why United States had enough time to win the Soviets by launching the first man to the moon. Despite USSR won Space Race, USA had won Diplomatic victory during the Soviet-Cuban Missile Crisis. You see?

Since nobody is perfect, i was thinking about the idea on having more than 1 winner. Each of the winners would have different Victory types such as Space Race, Diplomatic, etc. but the problem is it would be messy and confusing while it is interesting. If this idea does not work then Space Race could have been a World Project like the Internet or the Manhattan Project or in replace of Space Elevator... hmmmmmmm.....

 

[JonnyB]

We are referring to 2 different space races. The space race in the 60's and the Space race in civ are different things with the same name.

It's a game, the spoils go to whoever reaches a victory condition first.

The U.S. didn't beat the Soviets by going to the moon, they lost the space race so they changed their goal. (Assuming they ever went in the first place )

 

[Lord of Civ]

We are referring to 2 different space races. The space race in the 60's and the Space race in civ are different things with the same name.

I was actually defining what it means to archieve the Space Race Victory in REALITY which already occured in the 60s and that the race between 2 existing Civs: USSR and USA was far from over. (Not base on Civ Game but based on definition of space race) I would be happy that if the game would not end in case someone wins the space race. Its a game but it could have been better. At least please give me a Time victory in 2050 since i was being very great in maintaining my highest score.

Instead, in the game, they claimed that if you are the first one to launch a rocket to alpha centauri, you win space race and the game ends. Which i definitely found it to be a bit dumb and which drove me nutz.

The U.S. didn't beat the Soviets by going to the moon

I did not say that the US beat the Soviets to the moon, but they beat the Soviets about the race of sending the first man to the moon. However, The Soviets beat US by sending the first robotic rover "Lunar" to the moon but it was not Human being so Soviets failed to send the first man to the moon.

So..... Yes you are right that the US did not beat the Soviets by going to the moon because the Soviets arrived there before BUT WITH ROBOT....

 

[JonnyB]

I was actually defining what it means to archieve the Space Race Victory in REALITY which already occured in the 60s and that the race between 2 existing Civs: USSR and USA was far from over. (Not base on Civ Game but based on definition of space race) I would be happy that if the game would not end in case someone wins the space race. Its a game but it could have been better. At least please give me a Time victory in 2050 since i was being very great in maintaining my highest score.

Instead, in the game, they claimed that if you are the first one to launch a rocket to alpha centauri, you win space race and the game ends. Which i definitely found it to be a bit dumb and which drove me nutz.

It only annoyed you because you were on the short end, if you had the 2nd highest score and pulled off a space, or diplo victory youd' be laughing your off.
You chose to play with space race option on, if you lose the space race the one thing that doesn't make sense is for the game to change the rules to accomodate you. And you can always continue playing the game after a victory has been achieved.

(And if IIRC the Soviets weren't interested in sending a man to the moon, so that wasn't really a 'race')

 

[Lord of Civ]

It only annoyed you because you were on the short end, if you had the 2nd highest score and pulled off a space, or diplo victory youd' be laughing your off.
You chose to play with space race option on, if you lose the space race the one thing that doesn't make sense is for the game to change the rules to accomodate you. And you can always continue playing the game after a victory has been achieved.

(And if IIRC the Soviets weren't interested in sending a man to the moon, so that wasn't really a 'race')

Take it easy dude, i came here to discuss the result of my last game which did not seem right at all and not to laugh at anyone's off... Nobody is perfect...

No dude, I got the highest score which was very different from the Chinese and Viking's and i lost because an id*ot launched the first rocket to nowhere while i was about to do it too. Firaxis said so which was kinda ego but it does not mean that you had to agree. You can agree or disagree and Firaxis is willing to hear public opinion to improve their game rules.

Firstly, It actually annoyed me before i started the first game but i still bothered to play it to see if i was right about the sad ideas on ending the game quickly in this manner. It is ok to play it and discuss the result.

Secondly, the standard good rules must accomodate everyone in order for it to make sense and making it fair for everyone. Would you only allow Vikings to win with only Space Race and ending the entire game? I ended up in the dust bin while i still had chance to win Time Victory in 2050.. Nobody is changing the basic game rules but just the stupid goal archievement which is just an option/exceptions. It makes sense to make good rules and that is my focus.

Thirdly, the Soviets tried and tried to send the first man to the moon based on documantary but their rocket booster failed which angered the Soviet officials and the projects were cancelled and doomed. One project ended up in the pig's dirty pasture while most were destroyed and some were kept secretly in the garage til today. It was the top most concern goal for the Soviets and Americans. Besides, Soviets spent alot of money for this project and did not succeed. Anyway, I don't wanted to get any further into the deep discussion about History of Space Race but i was just trying to correct you.

 

[jimbob27]

Why do you find that so odd? Firaxis has even given an explanation for that; 'What if civilization took inspiration from artillery instead...'

Anything more?

Well, I believe in this reality man took inspiration from birds, and has been attempting to fly for as long as history has been recorded. In a world where man doesn't have the intelligence to say "i wonder if I can do what birds do", I doubt anybody would have the brain power to build a spaceship.

 

[Xanikk999]

Well, I believe in this reality man took inspiration from birds, and has been attempting to fly for as long as history has been recorded. In a world where man doesn't have the intelligence to say "i wonder if I can do what birds do", I doubt anybody would have the brain power to build a spaceship.

Exactly, people have had the desire to fly like birds long before artillery or even gunpowder was invented.

See the greek myth "Icarus".

 

[JonnyB]

Take it easy dude, i came here to discuss the result of my last game which did not seem right at all and not to laugh at anyone's off... Nobody is perfect...

I was always calm

No dude, I got the highest score which was very different from the Chinese and Viking's and i lost because an id*ot launched the first rocket to nowhere while i was about to do it too. Firaxis said so which was kinda ego but it does not mean that you had to agree. You can agree or disagree and Firaxis is willing to hear public opinion to improve their game rules.

We'll have to agree to disagree, to me a time victory is a consolation prize for being unable to win any other way. The score determines your level of success.

Thirdly, the Soviets tried and tried to send the first man to the moon based on documantary but their rocket booster failed which angered the Soviet officials and the projects were cancelled and doomed. One project ended up in the pig's dirty pasture while most were destroyed and some were kept secretly in the garage til today. It was the top most concern goal for the Soviets and Americans. Besides, Soviets spent alot of money for this project and did not succeed. Anyway, I don't wanted to get any further into the deep discussion about History of Space Race but i was just trying to correct you.

Upon review you are correct sir

 

[Lord of Civ]

We'll have to agree to disagree, to me a time victory is a consolation prize for being unable to win any other way. The score determines your level of success.

hmmm... Ok... If thats your opinion. I understood you.

This consolation prize of Time Victory means alot for me and it also means being success in the game, doing goodjob, and winning. Its value (score) shows the quality of the player as well as the chance of winning and showing the success (Based on Score Calculation). I was more success than the Vikings eventhough they beat me in the Space Race. Space Race should have been a World Project which would make more sense for me so it would not ruin the game. I was not qualified to win with highest score , which does not make sense for me. However, nevermind because this nightmare would not happen again.

Afterall, we are 2 individuals with different opinions and different views about winning the Civ game but it was nice to share each other's views. I appreciated that.

Upon review you are correct sir

Thanks JonnyB! I appologise if i had derailed the topic into a topic about History of Space Race...

Thanks for your contributions JonnyB, I am always glad to hear your opinion. Im afraid that i have nothing new to say in this thread. Bye and good luck with the game!