Thinking of trying Victoria 2
- Thread starter mike3640
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Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
You can't compare Victoria 2 to Civilization. It's like comparing a space shuttle to a Volkswagen bug (as much as I love Civilization too). It's considerably more complicated than Civ but you have to worry about political parties, population professions, industries, getting the materials you need for your armies. Literacy is actually important rather than a piece of trivial whereas the higher literacy you have, the faster you can research technologies and stay ahead of rival powers.
I personally suggest starting with Europa Universalis 3 as a beginner on how most of Victoria 2's basic mechanics work. Hearts of Iron is still over my head in how to play it and I'm just beginning to understand how Crusader Kings 2 works.
I personally suggest starting with Europa Universalis 3 as a beginner on how most of Victoria 2's basic mechanics work. Hearts of Iron is still over my head in how to play it and I'm just beginning to understand how Crusader Kings 2 works.
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Hearts of Iron 3 is insanely complex and general opinion is that you need all the expansion for it to be even playable. Victoria 2 is also in a whole different ballpark compared to Civilization.
The issue won't be playing a bad game, for both are good (though I prefer V2). The issue is the ability to sit down, read, and actually learn to play the games.
The issue won't be playing a bad game, for both are good (though I prefer V2). The issue is the ability to sit down, read, and actually learn to play the games.
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Victoria II is a great game; we have a thread on it here.
That being said, I wouldn't really recommend it to a newcomer. I'd second Leonel's recommendation of trying EU3 (note: buy Chronicles, not Complete), though EU4 is about to come out in a couple weeks. Alternatively, try Crusader Kings II; its more about characters than countries but it is solid and isn't terribly difficult to pick up.
If you do get it, I'd advise getting at least the A House Divided expansion.
Hearts of Iron III I'd flat out advise against. Its easily one of the more complicated Paradox games. If you do want to play a WW2 grand strategy, I'd recommend one of the Hearts of Iron II games; my personal preference is Darkest Hour, though I've heard good things about Arsenal of Democracy. Both are fully fleshed out games built upon Hearts of Iron II, both cost $10, and both have good mods available.
That being said, I wouldn't really recommend it to a newcomer. I'd second Leonel's recommendation of trying EU3 (note: buy Chronicles, not Complete), though EU4 is about to come out in a couple weeks. Alternatively, try Crusader Kings II; its more about characters than countries but it is solid and isn't terribly difficult to pick up.
If you do get it, I'd advise getting at least the A House Divided expansion.
Hearts of Iron III I'd flat out advise against. Its easily one of the more complicated Paradox games. If you do want to play a WW2 grand strategy, I'd recommend one of the Hearts of Iron II games; my personal preference is Darkest Hour, though I've heard good things about Arsenal of Democracy. Both are fully fleshed out games built upon Hearts of Iron II, both cost $10, and both have good mods available.
Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
Exactly. I believe I bought Victoria 2 when it first came out but it didn't take me until about a little over a year before I fully understood how to play it. It took me that same time to figure out how to actually select Casus Belli's in EU3 when I just took the 2 stability hit.
I think both of these games had their problems on release but their expansion packs made them awesome, so no matter which you pick I would aim to get the expansions. Otherwise, you will need mods to help fix balance problems.
Both HoI3 and V2 are sandbox-type games like all Paradox games but they are a bit more constrained by "historical realism" than than EU3, where single-province minors can conquer the globe. I'd pick based on whether you want something that is more of a wargame (HoI series) or a civilization-like game where warfare is a component but you are also building a nation (V2). I'm gung-ho about Vicky--industrialization, mass politics, colonization, diplomacy, and the most recent expansion really fixes up the supply and occupation system so late-game wars aren't as terrible.
EDIT: The posts above mine are also good--I'd recommend shifting slowly into the Paradox world with the EU series like I did, otherwise they can be really intimidating.
Both HoI3 and V2 are sandbox-type games like all Paradox games but they are a bit more constrained by "historical realism" than than EU3, where single-province minors can conquer the globe. I'd pick based on whether you want something that is more of a wargame (HoI series) or a civilization-like game where warfare is a component but you are also building a nation (V2). I'm gung-ho about Vicky--industrialization, mass politics, colonization, diplomacy, and the most recent expansion really fixes up the supply and occupation system so late-game wars aren't as terrible.
EDIT: The posts above mine are also good--I'd recommend shifting slowly into the Paradox world with the EU series like I did, otherwise they can be really intimidating.
Thanks. Yes I'm planning on getting expansions in addition to the base game of whichever I decide. One thing civ and paradox do seem to share is that the base games are not nearly as good as the expansions. I hated civ 5 but god I love GnK and BNW. I'm mostly leaning towards V2 and the expansions. I expect a challenge. I've heard Brazil a good nation to learn the game with.
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Brazil is a good country to start. Other usual suggestions are Belgium, France, and Prussia.
Belgium is small and already has a little industry. France is pretty strong, and unlike the UK, its a lot more focused; no huge colonies and such to have to keep track of. Prussia is good to learn the sphering mechanics, and they are also pretty strong.
I'd suggest a secondary power or even a great power that isn't very far-flung. People like Belgium and Brazil as starters, and France is a good great power to learn with. USA, the Germans, and the Italians all have unique challenges to deal with.
Them and the Dutch--also all over the place, have mouth-watering cores on Belgium, but don't have the military strength to hold onto that empire without some good diplomacy and maneuvering.
Victoria 2 is not going to be a smooth transition if you're used to Civilization games. Paradox Development Studios makes famously complicated and detailed games, with extreme depth to their simulations and high attention to detail. The sheer number of factors involved in their games often makes them difficult to pick up as a newcomer. Victoria 2 has all that, and it's compounded by the fact that a lot of your impact on the game is indirect - you select events that shape public opinion that influence elections that adjust the ruling party that modifies your government. You change taxes to shape incentives to shift populations into different jobs that causes your country to have different strengths and weaknesses. And so forth.
So if you go straight from Civ to Vicky 2, it'll probably take you dozens of hours to even figure out how you can actually predict the consequences of your actions (without even getting into knowing what are good consequences and which ones are bad). I strongly recommend you start off by playing and learning one of their simpler games, like EU3 or CK2.
I'm also not the only one in this thread giving you that advice; you might want to carefully consider that just about everyone who has played the game is giving you that same advice.
So if you go straight from Civ to Vicky 2, it'll probably take you dozens of hours to even figure out how you can actually predict the consequences of your actions (without even getting into knowing what are good consequences and which ones are bad). I strongly recommend you start off by playing and learning one of their simpler games, like EU3 or CK2.
I'm also not the only one in this thread giving you that advice; you might want to carefully consider that just about everyone who has played the game is giving you that same advice.
Nintz
King of the Britons
I would suggest CK2, EU3, or maybe even EU4 when it comes out next week.
Vicky 2 is rather complex, even by Pdox standards. And Pdox has very high complexity standards.
It's still a very good game, but be prepared for a long (and rather painful) learning curve.
Vicky 2 is rather complex, even by Pdox standards. And Pdox has very high complexity standards.
It's still a very good game, but be prepared for a long (and rather painful) learning curve.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
Paradox isn't exactly known for its helpful tutorials either. If you're a newcomer to their games, I'd recommend watching somebody let's play the game in question on youtube. That seems to be the easiest way to learn. Alternatively, read a gameplay AAR on ParadoxPlaza; there are even a couple that are specifically written for newbies.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Vicky II is a good game, but I never got time to get into it.
I would like others suggest EUIII/EUIV or CKII as a gateway drug to PI. EU is the simpler and is probably the closest to Civ in terms of the "lol conquer the world" mindset, though not necessarily gameplay. CKII is, and while also complicated, is probably the most accessible PI game since it's easier to relate to ("my brother's a douche, I want to get rid of him" or "do I want to marry for love or for power and money?")
I would like others suggest EUIII/EUIV or CKII as a gateway drug to PI. EU is the simpler and is probably the closest to Civ in terms of the "lol conquer the world" mindset, though not necessarily gameplay. CKII is, and while also complicated, is probably the most accessible PI game since it's easier to relate to ("my brother's a douche, I want to get rid of him" or "do I want to marry for love or for power and money?")
I actually think CKII is probably the most simple in terms of mechanics, once you get the hang of it. I found it as an easier way to introduce Paradox games to my friends than EU3/4.
That, and when trying the EU4 demo I was completely lost.
That, and when trying the EU4 demo I was completely lost.
