this can't be right... grow to happy cap with hereditary rule?

[papakapp]

So, I have read here that it's best to grow your cities to the happy cap. But when I run HR, I tend to have all my cities be full of archers (like 10 or so) by 1800 and very few buildings and few offensive units. There has to be some reasonable limit in there somewhere because even if i have all my cities doing nothing but producing the cheapest unit possible, I still can't meet the demand to keep all the cities happy.
Granted, for the rare times that I do NOT get somebody to DoW me (prince difficulty) I have a commerce juggernaut of an empire by the time I finally have all my cities at max population for their location but 90% of the time I get roflstomped before that because I have nothing but an empire full of happy archers.

I keep telling myself "ok, after this archer, i will make some offensive units, but there is ALWAYS one more city that just raised by one population point , and are now unhappy, so I try to quick crank out one more cheap military unit before I start thinking about anything else, but I never get to stop because the empire grows too fast. So, what is the REAL size you are supposed to grow your empire to? it can't possibly be "until you reach your happy cap" because under HR, the sky is the limit for happy cap.

Also, I posted this in quick answers, but apparently it is not so quick. If you have a save from 4000 bc, is it possible to save that map as a worldbuilder save, and play the same map with different mods installed? if so, how? I have never used worldbuilder.

 

[Jerrymander]

Having 10 archers standing around in each city is not the best way of managing happiness late game. By 1800 you should not be in HR anymore. :l

 

[papakapp]

right... so what I am saying is by say year 1200, I can theoretically grow my cities to size 15 if I do nothing but build archers all the time but like you said, that's "not the best way" I think it's fine to be running HR in the year 1200, but the way I am implementing it can't possibly be right.

So, after I have traded for all the resources I can get my hands on, I can't imagine the right thing to be to just keep growing my cities to the happy cap because the happy cap is limitless. So, I need a plan for ~1200 that does not result in having 10 archers in every city in the year 1800. What is that plan? or, what are some acceptable plans depending on the circumstances?

That's my real question.

 

[Jerrymander]

Luxury resources, buildings, and religions all provide happiness much more efficiently than Archers.

Also, being able to work one more plains cottage (for example) in a city isn't really a big difference

 

[AutomatedTeller]

It kind of depends. A size 15 city with 10 archers that is working a corn farm, 2 grass hills and 12 grass cottages is probably a good thing.

A size 15 city with 10 archers that is working a corn farm, 2 grass hills and 2 grass cottages and 10 unimproved grass tiles is a drag on the empire.

I have had the first (well, 6 or 7 archers), because cottage cities tend to have few hammers, so I have another city making a ton of cheap MPs while the cap builds unis and oxford.

I guess my point is that big is not necessarily better - I mean, you get more money from trade routes if you are big, but it's not that much. See what your cities need.

The idea of "grow to the happy cap" is generally advice from before HR - you generally have 4+ really good tiles in the cap and in other cities, so you want to be sure your cities get to that.

Under slavery, sometimes you want to grow BEYOND the happy cap and whip away 2 citizens at a time...

 

[Ataxerxes]

right... so what I am saying is by say year 1200, I can theoretically grow my cities to size 15 if I do nothing but build archers all the time but like you said, that's "not the best way" I think it's fine to be running HR in the year 1200, but the way I am implementing it can't possibly be right.

So, after I have traded for all the resources I can get my hands on, I can't imagine the right thing to be to just keep growing my cities to the happy cap because the happy cap is limitless. So, I need a plan for ~1200 that does not result in having 10 archers in every city in the year 1800. What is that plan? or, what are some acceptable plans depending on the circumstances?

That's my real question.

I'm normally out of slavery and HR by 1200. I'm also having a little trouble understanding the second paragraph. But here goes. After you trade for all resources, the cap on city size won't be happiness. Probably food in most cities. Eventually they max out at 20 or so, generally. A lot of the buildings help with happiness as well. Some people use corps like Sid's Sushi to get cities of 30 or so. That's a different area.

So after the happy cap is no longer a problem, you don't need the archers or HR. Probably disband them or give them to a vassal (he upgrades them cheaper than you can). If any are highly promoted you might upgrade them. Any of the three more "advanced" civics would probably suit you better. Rep for happiness in biggest cities and a research boost. Police State if you're planning to put the world out of its' misery. Or US for all those towns.

 

[s.bernbaum]

You say that besides lots of archers, each city has very few buildings. That may well be your problem. Several of the buildings multiply or give bonuses to the happiness that you are getting from happiness producing resources. If you aren't constructing those buildings and trading to get the happiness resources that you don't have in your empire, you will have a happiness problem.

 

[davelisowski]

sounds like depending on the military for happiness is what's the problem.

sure that can help, and one of the reasons to use HR, but don't depend on HR for happiness.
luxury resources, buildings, culture, etc.

it's okay to stop a city from growing. just click the little button in the city screen. lower right corner - it says 'prevent from growing' or something...

 

[Paw]

it's okay to stop a city from growing. just click the little button in the city screen. lower right corner - it says 'prevent from growing' or something...

Or reassign workers to different tiles and/or hire specialists

 

[Notenoughtrebs]

10 archers per city seems way like overkill to me. The maintenance costs alone will cripple you, at least at high levels.

I usually have one garrison unit in each city, more for border cities obviously.

Don't be afraid to keep whipping late. I whip universities. The free production of slavery is just too strong. If you have happiness issues, whip forge, market, and consider whipping religious buildings (though I almost never have to).

At Prince, building or getting hold of the Pyramids (for representation) should solve happiness problems.

With the hammers you spend on an extra nine archers per city you could make an army to take the Pyramids wherever they are.