MAS
Deity
I'd say, keep republic and get rid of said army, or better yet, use the army, but that is already mentioned.
This is Where it Always Starts Downhill
- Thread starter LowEndUser
- Start date
I'd say, keep republic and get rid of said army, or better yet, use the army, but that is already mentioned.
MAS
Deity
But to become more powerful, you need lebensraum You don't gain more tiles under your control by gifting away cities...
TheOverseer714
Overseer
They've all given you great advice, so I probably can't add anything to that. If any of you want to try a Succession Game as a player or an advisor(lurker), I am tryig to get one going. I think it's a great way to learn, especially with high quality lurkers
Just click on the link on my profile if interested. I just hope me "advertising" isn't a violation of site terms of agreement. Oh well, I hope I would be forgiven....
Just click on the link on my profile if interested. I just hope me "advertising" isn't a violation of site terms of agreement. Oh well, I hope I would be forgiven....
First thing I do is hit F4 and see an RoP, which I dislike. There are very few times, I would have an RoP. The only one that comes to mind is in a Demi or Deity game very early. Some civs are at war and crossing my lands.
I may give one of them an RoP after the war ends, to get them out of my lands quickly. This is done to encourage them to leave before they decide I make a good target.
Next I look at F1 and see 10% research and 20 on lux. Wow no real sense in doing 10%, may as well go to zero and use one scientist, same rate of research. This current setting yields +3 gpt.
This smacks of a very bad empire management. Will have to see what the cause of this is, but I am sure the root cause was lack of early workers and expansion.
Couple this with to many units and structures and that is what you get. I did not mention trading and such, because you can do none and not be in this boat.
At regent with many civs on my land, I would expect to have eliminated someone by 1130AD.
This is another cause of the state of the empire. You want to take some land from the AI as sooner or later that is the only way to expand.
26 gold on hand, income 381, -22 for science, -45 entertainment, -18 maint and -158 support.
Nearly all towns are on wealth, not a good plan. That is for late late game or in a massive map where you have 250 or more towns. I suspect that citizens are not working on the optimal tiles and some tiles are not improved properly.
F7 shows an ugly picture. Japan has only one wonder and it is sort of an unique one as not everyone could build it anyway (SoZ).
I am not a big fan of wonders and mostly I have no chance at them, but at Regent you should be able to build many of them, in fact most of them. I have build all of them a few times, just to do it.
Now the 2 wonders I would want the most you did not get and you did not even start Leo's. Sun's being the other one. No reason in the world to miss those two. Why no pre to get it soon after getting the tech?
15 native workers for about 20 towns, that is way to low and you see the consequences. Lots of tiles without a road.
The capitol is not even at size 12. It has no barracks. This is a crime as you have SoZ there. You just threw away the extra hit point that makes the AC such a terror in the AA and early Middle Age.
With the SoZ you can win the game quickly. I would have gotten a rax up and used my 5hp vets to crush someone. If I get a leader and I surely will, I make an army and turn out some lights.
6 hp AC's will just smash units at that stage of the game.
I see many units that are regulars, that is not allowed IMO. It is fine to make a few regular warriors, but no others in a standard game. Build all units in places that have a rax.
Next I am not fond of making spears or archers in a game like this, no need for them. If you are without iron and without horse, then archers can be used.
A normal game at regent or monarch, you can win without a single spear. Swords defend as well, and attack. Defending is for the AI anyway.
The whole map should be known about this time, get those curraghs out quickly.
What to do now that we are where we are?
First tell rome to hit the bricks and we have war. 3/3 sword kills the archer (1-0).
Slaves start road on the spot in memory of our soon to be glorious victory.
Stop workers near Izumi and start them home. This is no place to have civilians. Switch Izumi to a worker and will abandon the place next turn. Want to get any units to Bayonne to hold it and the one silk. Move the pike in to town.
Move 5/5 MDI to cover incoming workers and the army towards Casarea.
Izumo was placed poorly as it should have been on the hill behind it so it could use the two whales. I bite the bullet and start a settler so I can abandon it and found in the proper site. Will need a temple and a harbor there.
This is next to the capitol and should be a bumped up city by now. Could have had the FP as well. Not sure if you have one yet.
Not sure what is wrong with the save as I am not able to use CAII on it. Never had it crash before.
Disband both of the pikes to speed up the settler. Not one mine in the town.
many workers are working tasks that are not useful, at least not now. Making roads/mines on moutains that are never going to be worked or even traveled in some cases.
I stop them and find something usefull to do with them.
Units are guarding them, even though no war was going on and some are far inside your land?
13 turns to go on a mine, why? Consider that worker turns are like gold, you do not want to waste them.
Shimonoseki: move pop from the grass tile on the border, to the forest for now. Want some shields and start a temple. We do not want to have zero culture here. You could go for a treb otherwise. Sending the worker off the border next turn to chop the trees to speed the temple.
Matsuyama needs a temple or lib to get culture as it owns the only horse you have. Want to get borders expanded, so AI cannot jump on the place before you can react.
Switch Omi to a treb, do not want any Long Bows.
Really suffering from lack of income.
Start market in Nagasaki.
Toyama make a taxman to gain 1gpt. Set research to 0, not much use anyway at a 50 turn pace.
Lugdunum to temple.
Would not need these if these place were CxxC. Well some would as they are on the border and you are not in a position to roll anyone right now.
I see a lot of walls, why is that? I rarely make them in non AW games. Beachhead places and an occassional front line town. Should not need them at this level at all.
Yes they have no maint and are cheap, but you are making them when you could be doing something better, say a worker or cat.
Echizen is making a pike with no rax, I really hate that. It has a place in some games, like AWE or better on a huge map and that is the cheapest unit you can make for MP duty.
Switch to rax as we may need those full heal properties. It is on the border with Rome. The one place that could maybe use a wall.
Certainly needs a couple of cats.
I note you only have 3 cats and no trebs.
Luetia if it had a temple, it may be able to grab that wine. Not sure what the city is next to it, so I am not sure about its culture. Won't matter as you will have to capture or raze it now.
Yoko starts a temple and then a market.
Satsuma should have been next to the river. Then you would not be building a 100 shield aqua all this time. It would be size 12 and giving a lot of support.
Hakdate starts a harbor. This place can be useful and must be. It is close to the capitol and will have less corruption than others. Get a harbor and a temple to use more coastal tiles. Get the place to city size and those 2 gold per tile income. A market to boost that by 50%.
This should already have been done. These are the reasons you have low income.
Switch Osaka to MDI. I am not a big fan of hand building granaries. 2 or 3 in the best places, ok. No more, unless they have food bonus and it is early so you can spam out settlers. That is not the case here.
Start temples in a few others. Nagopya was doing a rax, but you could not handle a war with Ghandi right now, so it is not useful. You already have a harbor, but no pop using coastal tiles. Border expansion will help that and take pressure off us.
Kagoshima starts an aqua. It needs to get to size 12 and soon.
stop some more workers doing less than optimal task as we have important work to be done.
Need to chop the forest to get the aqua up asap.
Move some units up from the core to the front.
The real problem is not what to do from here as it does not matter in the long run. What you should be interested in, is how to get to this point in much better shape.
The start was not swell, but you could have gotten a worse one. I always tell
players to not play on maps other than std size, until they are solid in how to run an empire.
The game gets distorted at larger or smaller sizes and makes it easier on the human.
I may give one of them an RoP after the war ends, to get them out of my lands quickly. This is done to encourage them to leave before they decide I make a good target.
Next I look at F1 and see 10% research and 20 on lux. Wow no real sense in doing 10%, may as well go to zero and use one scientist, same rate of research. This current setting yields +3 gpt.
This smacks of a very bad empire management. Will have to see what the cause of this is, but I am sure the root cause was lack of early workers and expansion.
Couple this with to many units and structures and that is what you get. I did not mention trading and such, because you can do none and not be in this boat.
At regent with many civs on my land, I would expect to have eliminated someone by 1130AD.
This is another cause of the state of the empire. You want to take some land from the AI as sooner or later that is the only way to expand.
26 gold on hand, income 381, -22 for science, -45 entertainment, -18 maint and -158 support.
Nearly all towns are on wealth, not a good plan. That is for late late game or in a massive map where you have 250 or more towns. I suspect that citizens are not working on the optimal tiles and some tiles are not improved properly.
F7 shows an ugly picture. Japan has only one wonder and it is sort of an unique one as not everyone could build it anyway (SoZ).
I am not a big fan of wonders and mostly I have no chance at them, but at Regent you should be able to build many of them, in fact most of them. I have build all of them a few times, just to do it.
Now the 2 wonders I would want the most you did not get and you did not even start Leo's. Sun's being the other one. No reason in the world to miss those two. Why no pre to get it soon after getting the tech?
15 native workers for about 20 towns, that is way to low and you see the consequences. Lots of tiles without a road.
The capitol is not even at size 12. It has no barracks. This is a crime as you have SoZ there. You just threw away the extra hit point that makes the AC such a terror in the AA and early Middle Age.
With the SoZ you can win the game quickly. I would have gotten a rax up and used my 5hp vets to crush someone. If I get a leader and I surely will, I make an army and turn out some lights.
6 hp AC's will just smash units at that stage of the game.
I see many units that are regulars, that is not allowed IMO. It is fine to make a few regular warriors, but no others in a standard game. Build all units in places that have a rax.
Next I am not fond of making spears or archers in a game like this, no need for them. If you are without iron and without horse, then archers can be used.
A normal game at regent or monarch, you can win without a single spear. Swords defend as well, and attack. Defending is for the AI anyway.
The whole map should be known about this time, get those curraghs out quickly.
What to do now that we are where we are?
First tell rome to hit the bricks and we have war. 3/3 sword kills the archer (1-0).
Slaves start road on the spot in memory of our soon to be glorious victory.
Stop workers near Izumi and start them home. This is no place to have civilians. Switch Izumi to a worker and will abandon the place next turn. Want to get any units to Bayonne to hold it and the one silk. Move the pike in to town.
Move 5/5 MDI to cover incoming workers and the army towards Casarea.
Izumo was placed poorly as it should have been on the hill behind it so it could use the two whales. I bite the bullet and start a settler so I can abandon it and found in the proper site. Will need a temple and a harbor there.
This is next to the capitol and should be a bumped up city by now. Could have had the FP as well. Not sure if you have one yet.
Not sure what is wrong with the save as I am not able to use CAII on it. Never had it crash before.
Disband both of the pikes to speed up the settler. Not one mine in the town.
many workers are working tasks that are not useful, at least not now. Making roads/mines on moutains that are never going to be worked or even traveled in some cases.
I stop them and find something usefull to do with them.
Units are guarding them, even though no war was going on and some are far inside your land?
13 turns to go on a mine, why? Consider that worker turns are like gold, you do not want to waste them.
Shimonoseki: move pop from the grass tile on the border, to the forest for now. Want some shields and start a temple. We do not want to have zero culture here. You could go for a treb otherwise. Sending the worker off the border next turn to chop the trees to speed the temple.
Matsuyama needs a temple or lib to get culture as it owns the only horse you have. Want to get borders expanded, so AI cannot jump on the place before you can react.
Switch Omi to a treb, do not want any Long Bows.
Really suffering from lack of income.
Start market in Nagasaki.
Toyama make a taxman to gain 1gpt. Set research to 0, not much use anyway at a 50 turn pace.
Lugdunum to temple.
Would not need these if these place were CxxC. Well some would as they are on the border and you are not in a position to roll anyone right now.
I see a lot of walls, why is that? I rarely make them in non AW games. Beachhead places and an occassional front line town. Should not need them at this level at all.
Yes they have no maint and are cheap, but you are making them when you could be doing something better, say a worker or cat.
Echizen is making a pike with no rax, I really hate that. It has a place in some games, like AWE or better on a huge map and that is the cheapest unit you can make for MP duty.
Switch to rax as we may need those full heal properties. It is on the border with Rome. The one place that could maybe use a wall.
Certainly needs a couple of cats.
I note you only have 3 cats and no trebs.
Luetia if it had a temple, it may be able to grab that wine. Not sure what the city is next to it, so I am not sure about its culture. Won't matter as you will have to capture or raze it now.
Yoko starts a temple and then a market.
Satsuma should have been next to the river. Then you would not be building a 100 shield aqua all this time. It would be size 12 and giving a lot of support.
Hakdate starts a harbor. This place can be useful and must be. It is close to the capitol and will have less corruption than others. Get a harbor and a temple to use more coastal tiles. Get the place to city size and those 2 gold per tile income. A market to boost that by 50%.
This should already have been done. These are the reasons you have low income.
Switch Osaka to MDI. I am not a big fan of hand building granaries. 2 or 3 in the best places, ok. No more, unless they have food bonus and it is early so you can spam out settlers. That is not the case here.
Start temples in a few others. Nagopya was doing a rax, but you could not handle a war with Ghandi right now, so it is not useful. You already have a harbor, but no pop using coastal tiles. Border expansion will help that and take pressure off us.
Kagoshima starts an aqua. It needs to get to size 12 and soon.
stop some more workers doing less than optimal task as we have important work to be done.
Need to chop the forest to get the aqua up asap.
Move some units up from the core to the front.
The real problem is not what to do from here as it does not matter in the long run. What you should be interested in, is how to get to this point in much better shape.
The start was not swell, but you could have gotten a worse one. I always tell
players to not play on maps other than std size, until they are solid in how to run an empire.
The game gets distorted at larger or smaller sizes and makes it easier on the human.
Nasty business, I see a bunch of units on long goto runs. I dislike that, especially workers, they will get into trouble. Are they automated?
1150AD:
1st kills 2 spears in Caesarea (2-0).
Dang, more workers running off on their own. Trying to find all these idiots. They seem to be heading for the jungles. That is the last place you want to have all your workers.
They will spend forever clearing tiles for a totally corrupt town, why would you want to do that?
I disbanded an archer last turn and a warrior this turn. Archer to get the settler done and the warrior was to get rid of it and 2 shields for the temple.
disband a galley in Suo.
I should mention the 2 towns on the island, why do it? They will not be of much use and are going to be at risk. They just add to corruption and the resources could have been put to better use on the homeland.
[3-0]
1160AD:
Disband spear in Osaka.
1st kills 2 more spears and captures town and 2 slaves (2-0).
[5-0]
IBT:
LB attack the AC on a hill and red lined it. That would not have happened, if it was at 5hp.
1170AD:
Told Smoke to get out and he did.
AC that was with it, kills the LB flawlessly, but no promotion (1-0).
[6-0]
IBT:
nada
1180AD:
Another worker on the lose.
1190AD:
Kyoto is getting some mines as it has too much irrigation. I found a worker there irrigating a grass tile? This is crazy as that would have been the 14th irrigated tile? The city will only have 12 worked tile, so what is the point?
Not to mention that grass is not to be irrigated, unless you need the food and we are already at size 12 with excess food. I have gotten a rax up and getting a market. Then it can do maybe the Epic.
IBT:
A LB attacks an AC and dies we get a vet finally (1-0).
Smoke is probing, but I say nothing for now.
[7-0]
1200AD:
Nagasaki switched market to aqua. Thought it was on a river.
4/4 and 4/5 AC kill a legion and a spear and capture Byzantium (2-0).
1 slave in town.
Told Smoke to leave.
[9-0]
1220AD:
4/4 AC and 5/5 sword kill LB at Byz (2-0).
[11-0]
IBT:
LB dies attacking 5/5 sword (1-0)
[12-0]
1230AD:
Smoke keeps sending those 2 MDI's into our land.
Huh, Sumeria tells he does not like our troops around (ship)? We have an RoP?
I see there are 2 Sumerian civs and Mayans are also blue, nice 3 with the same color. No wonder CAII is puking.
5/5 AC kills LB (1-0)
5/5 sword kills LB (2-0).
4/4 AC kills one and is a vet (3-0).
1st kills legion at Antium and one goes elite, so now 12/12 (4-0).
5/5 AC kills a legion, is now 2/5 (5-0).
[17-0]
1250AD:
Force Mayan MDI back with blocking.
Declined RoP renewing.
Declined Korean trade of Dyes for Ivory and 9gpt.
1st kills legion and spear and razes Antium (2-0).
Gets 3 workers.
Upgrade 2 cats and 4 swords.
Let Rome off the hook for Mono
I need to get some techs so that is my way for now.
[19-0]
1260AD:
Set research to 20%.
We have the wines in our borders, did not notice when that occurred.
Rome has 3 LB in the land and I tell him to move them.
Something is wrong with this game. I noticed that tiles are giving an extra gold?
Getting 5hp AC's and have temples up in many places and a few markets. Once I steal Chiv, it will be fine. Doubt anyone wants to dance now anyway.
Started the FP somewhere after the city finished its market.
Looks like the circumnavigation of the land is nearly done, but one civs is still not met.
This not an AP game, is it? Near as I can tell it is not. I did not notice any msg about it being modified.
1150AD:
1st kills 2 spears in Caesarea (2-0).
Dang, more workers running off on their own. Trying to find all these idiots. They seem to be heading for the jungles. That is the last place you want to have all your workers.
They will spend forever clearing tiles for a totally corrupt town, why would you want to do that?
I disbanded an archer last turn and a warrior this turn. Archer to get the settler done and the warrior was to get rid of it and 2 shields for the temple.
disband a galley in Suo.
I should mention the 2 towns on the island, why do it? They will not be of much use and are going to be at risk. They just add to corruption and the resources could have been put to better use on the homeland.
[3-0]
1160AD:
Disband spear in Osaka.
1st kills 2 more spears and captures town and 2 slaves (2-0).
[5-0]
IBT:
LB attack the AC on a hill and red lined it. That would not have happened, if it was at 5hp.
1170AD:
Told Smoke to get out and he did.
AC that was with it, kills the LB flawlessly, but no promotion (1-0).
[6-0]
IBT:
nada
1180AD:
Another worker on the lose.
1190AD:
Kyoto is getting some mines as it has too much irrigation. I found a worker there irrigating a grass tile? This is crazy as that would have been the 14th irrigated tile? The city will only have 12 worked tile, so what is the point?
Not to mention that grass is not to be irrigated, unless you need the food and we are already at size 12 with excess food. I have gotten a rax up and getting a market. Then it can do maybe the Epic.
IBT:
A LB attacks an AC and dies we get a vet finally (1-0).
Smoke is probing, but I say nothing for now.
[7-0]
1200AD:
Nagasaki switched market to aqua. Thought it was on a river.
4/4 and 4/5 AC kill a legion and a spear and capture Byzantium (2-0).
1 slave in town.
Told Smoke to leave.
[9-0]
1220AD:
4/4 AC and 5/5 sword kill LB at Byz (2-0).
[11-0]
IBT:
LB dies attacking 5/5 sword (1-0)
[12-0]
1230AD:
Smoke keeps sending those 2 MDI's into our land.
Huh, Sumeria tells he does not like our troops around (ship)? We have an RoP?
I see there are 2 Sumerian civs and Mayans are also blue, nice 3 with the same color. No wonder CAII is puking.
5/5 AC kills LB (1-0)
5/5 sword kills LB (2-0).
4/4 AC kills one and is a vet (3-0).
1st kills legion at Antium and one goes elite, so now 12/12 (4-0).
5/5 AC kills a legion, is now 2/5 (5-0).
[17-0]
1250AD:
Force Mayan MDI back with blocking.
Declined RoP renewing.
Declined Korean trade of Dyes for Ivory and 9gpt.
1st kills legion and spear and razes Antium (2-0).
Gets 3 workers.
Upgrade 2 cats and 4 swords.
Let Rome off the hook for Mono
I need to get some techs so that is my way for now.
[19-0]
1260AD:
Set research to 20%.
We have the wines in our borders, did not notice when that occurred.
Rome has 3 LB in the land and I tell him to move them.
Something is wrong with this game. I noticed that tiles are giving an extra gold?
Getting 5hp AC's and have temples up in many places and a few markets. Once I steal Chiv, it will be fine. Doubt anyone wants to dance now anyway.
Started the FP somewhere after the city finished its market.
Looks like the circumnavigation of the land is nearly done, but one civs is still not met.
This not an AP game, is it? Near as I can tell it is not. I did not notice any msg about it being modified.
Well, 2 Sumerias would explain what I posted in spoiler tags earlier, but how is Sumeria in there twice in the first place?vmxa said:
Sure about that? I counted the right amount of gold on the tiles I checked just now.vmxa said:
No idea how that was done, other than using an editor. As to the gold, I see 2 gold on desert tiles and grass tiles, not of them with a river in sight.
River grassland tiles are getting 3 gold? If I try to load any of the files with CA, it puts out an error log to email. Never seen that before either. At first I thought it was an AP, but I am not even sure if that would do it.
Anyway it is not an AP game. It is just strange. After Gunpowder came in, I was able to do Chiv in 4 turns with out even going negative on cash.
I did not measure out how much it should have taken, but that is a huge discount. I think it is known to all 9 civs. It should have been around 800 beakers.
I am making about 110. So it should have been about 8 turns. Gun took normal time. Looks like Theo is about what it should be, 740 or so and 7 turns.
No idea what is going on. Does not matter anyway as with sami's online, it will be sad for the AI. Muskets for defense AC's and Sami to smack them.
One of the Sumerians are getting a taste and Rome was being punk before the UU came.
River grassland tiles are getting 3 gold? If I try to load any of the files with CA, it puts out an error log to email. Never seen that before either. At first I thought it was an AP, but I am not even sure if that would do it.
Anyway it is not an AP game. It is just strange. After Gunpowder came in, I was able to do Chiv in 4 turns with out even going negative on cash.
I did not measure out how much it should have taken, but that is a huge discount. I think it is known to all 9 civs. It should have been around 800 beakers.
I am making about 110. So it should have been about 8 turns. Gun took normal time. Looks like Theo is about what it should be, 740 or so and 7 turns.
No idea what is going on. Does not matter anyway as with sami's online, it will be sad for the AI. Muskets for defense AC's and Sami to smack them.
One of the Sumerians are getting a taste and Rome was being punk before the UU came.
They're roaded and Japan's in republic, so that's what those tiles should be getting, right?
If you click on a desert tile to get the info is shows +2 gold. IOW 0 food, 1 shield and 2 gold for a desert tile with no improvement at all.
If you look at the pedia, it shows 0 food, 1 shield and 0 gold. If I check info on the tile with a road it still say 012. If it has a road and nothing else.
I will confess I cannot remember the last time I was in republic, but I cannot image you get +1 gold for every tile. That would be massive.
The pedia says only increased commerce, but does not define it.
If you look at the pedia, it shows 0 food, 1 shield and 0 gold. If I check info on the tile with a road it still say 012. If it has a road and nothing else.
I will confess I cannot remember the last time I was in republic, but I cannot image you get +1 gold for every tile. That would be massive.
The pedia says only increased commerce, but does not define it.
LowEndUser
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
- Messages
- 32
Thanks for trying to save the Game, it just a standard C3C 1.22 Version from the Civ complete set, no mods, other then Spooky`s Green Tile set, but I doubt that changes the the Game rules ???.
I`ve noticed in another game 2 of the same AI civs poping up....perhaps it`s corrupted...?
What is the CA tool you guys can`t seem to get working with this Game Version ?
I`ve noticed in another game 2 of the same AI civs poping up....perhaps it`s corrupted...?
What is the CA tool you guys can`t seem to get working with this Game Version ?
It is Civilization Assist II in the utility forum, very handing. I am not trying to save it, I am winning it. I Have eliminated Rome keeping a few of their towns.
I just razed a few of Smokes cities after he got smart, because a border expansion covered a few workers. He paid me a city for peace and I abandoned it.
I have 5 armies now, but the bad news is I now have to attack France as I have no coal. I am dead even in tech, but I may go ahead a tiny bit as next turn I learn Electricity.
Well actually a couple have Nationalism, but I won' research that.
I just razed a few of Smokes cities after he got smart, because a border expansion covered a few workers. He paid me a city for peace and I abandoned it.
I have 5 armies now, but the bad news is I now have to attack France as I have no coal. I am dead even in tech, but I may go ahead a tiny bit as next turn I learn Electricity.
Well actually a couple have Nationalism, but I won' research that.
Hum CAII does not seem to be having any more problems with the game, don;t know what changed though.
Anyway took the coal from France, only to find I have no rubber, so going to have to hit India now.
Anyway took the coal from France, only to find I have no rubber, so going to have to hit India now.
LowEndUser
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
- Messages
- 32
Hi VMXA, looks like your doing OK, I`m going to see if I can follow you in the Game as a learning lesson.
Couple of questions:
You said,
"First thing I do is hit F4 and see an RoP, which I dislike. There are very few times, I would have an RoP. The only one that comes to mind is in a Demi or Deity game very early. Some civs are at war and crossing my lands."
Why is that ? I usually do it in the early-mid game to allow the AI Settlers through as well as letting me scout them out.
Do you manage the Cities yourself, I can`t seem to get the Advances as fast as you are doing ?
Thanks for all the detailed AAR help.
PS, never had time to start Wonders as Rome DOW me early on.
Couple of questions:
You said,
"First thing I do is hit F4 and see an RoP, which I dislike. There are very few times, I would have an RoP. The only one that comes to mind is in a Demi or Deity game very early. Some civs are at war and crossing my lands."
Why is that ? I usually do it in the early-mid game to allow the AI Settlers through as well as letting me scout them out.
Do you manage the Cities yourself, I can`t seem to get the Advances as fast as you are doing ?
Thanks for all the detailed AAR help.
PS, never had time to start Wonders as Rome DOW me early on.
I do not let the AI send settlers through my land, that is not allowed, unless it is either a nasty start at Sid or I know they are not going to be around long and will not be able to share my map.
The reason they come through your land is
1) open borders (spaces between towns, caused by wide spacing and no culture)
2) your are weak compared to them
At even Demi God, you can usually keep them from crossing your culture border. Above that you will need to be strong.
So if I know I am going to kill them before they met anyone else, I do not worry. If not and I do not want them planting towns, it is declare or die. Well actually it leave or die.
Now at Demi you will not keep them from crossing to fight, but they will not send settlers in, if you are not weak. Very early, I do not want to fight them most likely, so if they were fighting, I want them out soon as the war ends.
Otherwise, they will often decide I am next up and are already in place.
I manage everything. All workers all towns, all units. If you have seen the lousy job the AI does with its empire, you will understand the advantage of doing it yourself.
Rome started a war, because it saw you as weak and it needed to expand. This was likely becasue you have all warriors and spears. If you had horses and swords, it would not have messed with you.
My style is to nearly always be hurting one of the civs. I will go to war as soon as I can and that is as soon I am slowing down on my expansion.
Sooner if a real good opening comes up. IOW if I stumble upon an AI settler or empty town, I will jump it.
Reason, I know I can bloody their nose a bit and get peace, if it gets too hot. In the mean time, the loss of settler or a town so ealry, will mean they will never be able to keep pace (talking about Emperor or lower).
Advances can be gotten in three main ways:
1) self research
2) trade
3) steal
A fourth I left off as it is from war.
I used #1, #3 and #4.
#1 requires you increase your income and I set about improving the empire right away. Getting markets was the one big move.
I researched a tech that I could peddle or I traded or beat one out of someone. I peddle them around for tech and or cash.
I think I got into it with rome first and got a tech and later did a rinse and repeat. I also need more land to aid in unit support.
Not sure any more what came next. I know I got into with one of Sumerians and took a few towns and razed 1 or 2. Then it was Smoke and then I killed Rome off.
Next I thing it was India. I got a rax up quickly to get those 5 hp AC's and then got a leader and got Chiv from someone for tech and made a sami army.
It cracked heads. got another leader and so on and so forth. Stick in a nice trade here and there and keep annexing some land. Now it is down to needing to eliminate someone.
May need to switch to monarchy and go always war with someone. It will take too long to eliminate a civ and hold all of thier land. The bad thing is I want to hit the top sumerian civ, but they are not close.
They are 3 times your culture, but I am now only 48 points behind, so I will be #1 soon.
So far no one dare jump in on me while I am at war, too strong for their taste with some 8 armies now, mostly cavs. Inf up for defense and rails to all towns.
Nothing they can do now, be like a snake choking the life out at my leisure. I popped ToE. I want to hit Delhi for Suns, but I have been keeping my peace treaties, so I have to wait.
The reason they come through your land is
1) open borders (spaces between towns, caused by wide spacing and no culture)
2) your are weak compared to them
At even Demi God, you can usually keep them from crossing your culture border. Above that you will need to be strong.
So if I know I am going to kill them before they met anyone else, I do not worry. If not and I do not want them planting towns, it is declare or die. Well actually it leave or die.
Now at Demi you will not keep them from crossing to fight, but they will not send settlers in, if you are not weak. Very early, I do not want to fight them most likely, so if they were fighting, I want them out soon as the war ends.
Otherwise, they will often decide I am next up and are already in place.
I manage everything. All workers all towns, all units. If you have seen the lousy job the AI does with its empire, you will understand the advantage of doing it yourself.
Rome started a war, because it saw you as weak and it needed to expand. This was likely becasue you have all warriors and spears. If you had horses and swords, it would not have messed with you.
My style is to nearly always be hurting one of the civs. I will go to war as soon as I can and that is as soon I am slowing down on my expansion.
Sooner if a real good opening comes up. IOW if I stumble upon an AI settler or empty town, I will jump it.
Reason, I know I can bloody their nose a bit and get peace, if it gets too hot. In the mean time, the loss of settler or a town so ealry, will mean they will never be able to keep pace (talking about Emperor or lower).
Advances can be gotten in three main ways:
1) self research
2) trade
3) steal
A fourth I left off as it is from war.
I used #1, #3 and #4.
#1 requires you increase your income and I set about improving the empire right away. Getting markets was the one big move.
I researched a tech that I could peddle or I traded or beat one out of someone. I peddle them around for tech and or cash.
I think I got into it with rome first and got a tech and later did a rinse and repeat. I also need more land to aid in unit support.
Not sure any more what came next. I know I got into with one of Sumerians and took a few towns and razed 1 or 2. Then it was Smoke and then I killed Rome off.
Next I thing it was India. I got a rax up quickly to get those 5 hp AC's and then got a leader and got Chiv from someone for tech and made a sami army.
It cracked heads. got another leader and so on and so forth. Stick in a nice trade here and there and keep annexing some land. Now it is down to needing to eliminate someone.
May need to switch to monarchy and go always war with someone. It will take too long to eliminate a civ and hold all of thier land. The bad thing is I want to hit the top sumerian civ, but they are not close.
They are 3 times your culture, but I am now only 48 points behind, so I will be #1 soon.
So far no one dare jump in on me while I am at war, too strong for their taste with some 8 armies now, mostly cavs. Inf up for defense and rails to all towns.
Nothing they can do now, be like a snake choking the life out at my leisure. I popped ToE. I want to hit Delhi for Suns, but I have been keeping my peace treaties, so I have to wait.
I found I still had a few further logs, before I got lazy:
1270AD:
Not much fun everyone retreats upon demanding, so I just attack the 4 LB that Rome has sent over.
Two 5/5 swords kill one each. 4/4 MDI gets one and 4/4 AC's each do as well.
AC gets vet promotion (4-0). Send 1st and 2 5/5 AC's to see our man in Rome.[4-0]
1285AD:
2 5/5 AC's kill spears in Rome and go elite (2-0).
Both are now 3/6.
1st kills 2 more and we capture Rome (4-0).
It had 3 slaves and 1 gold. I thought the lame AI would at least have some
structures in the capitol, it only had ToA. So I abandon it.
How did they get to 1285AD with not even a barracks or a lib, nothing?
Sent over the 5/5 AC to cover the slave that we can always use.
1295AD:
Found the Arabian lands.
IBT:
LB attacks the 3/6 AC's sitting a hill healing and dies (1-0).
[9-0]
1300AD:
Disband the two galleys as I found all the civs now and see the whole landmass.
Bump reseearch to 30% at -3gpt.
1st kills LB (1-0).
Add the covering AC to the army stack.
[10-0]
IBT:
One of the Sumerian civs demanded Ivory and got the finger.
They attacked the 2 AC's with a LB and it died (1-0).
[11-0]
1305AD:
Sorry forgot to record this one, I know I killed spear in A Rome town and another Sumerian LB (2-0).
[13-0]
1310AD:
5/6 AC kills Sumerian Lb (1-0).
1st killed 2 spear and razes Roman town (3-0).
5/5 AC kill Sumerian LB (4-0).
4/4 AC kill Endu (5-0).
[18-0]
1270AD:
Not much fun everyone retreats upon demanding, so I just attack the 4 LB that Rome has sent over.
Two 5/5 swords kill one each. 4/4 MDI gets one and 4/4 AC's each do as well.
AC gets vet promotion (4-0). Send 1st and 2 5/5 AC's to see our man in Rome.[4-0]
1285AD:
2 5/5 AC's kill spears in Rome and go elite (2-0).
Both are now 3/6.
1st kills 2 more and we capture Rome (4-0).
It had 3 slaves and 1 gold. I thought the lame AI would at least have some
structures in the capitol, it only had ToA. So I abandon it.
How did they get to 1285AD with not even a barracks or a lib, nothing?
Sent over the 5/5 AC to cover the slave that we can always use.
1295AD:
Found the Arabian lands.
IBT:
LB attacks the 3/6 AC's sitting a hill healing and dies (1-0).
[9-0]
1300AD:
Disband the two galleys as I found all the civs now and see the whole landmass.
Bump reseearch to 30% at -3gpt.
1st kills LB (1-0).
Add the covering AC to the army stack.
[10-0]
IBT:
One of the Sumerian civs demanded Ivory and got the finger.
They attacked the 2 AC's with a LB and it died (1-0).
[11-0]
1305AD:
Sorry forgot to record this one, I know I killed spear in A Rome town and another Sumerian LB (2-0).
[13-0]
1310AD:
5/6 AC kills Sumerian Lb (1-0).
1st killed 2 spear and razes Roman town (3-0).
5/5 AC kill Sumerian LB (4-0).
4/4 AC kill Endu (5-0).
[18-0]
Sorry I did not do more logs, but I was always planning on stopping, but never seem to be able to abandon any game till it is won. Also I was not sure they would be read, so why bother.
1680AD:
I decided to hit India, I discovered that you had blown the reputation anyway. Razed a city.
1685AD:
Got a leader from an AC made Cav-9th. captured city, sold market. Again so little in a size 12 so late? Abandon and settler new town as this is next to Delhi.
Got another leader from AC Vs WE. The previous vs pike, both down to 2 hits.
Form 10th. It and another army capture another city. Sell market and bank and abandon.
Found new town on spot. Delhi is nearly surrounded by my towns now.
Well the great luck on elites end as 4 in a row failed to get a leader, not that I expect any, 2 out of 6 is nice.
India is so weak they only managed to send in 9 units. Losing 3 cities next to the capitol will not help them.
1690AD:
India had an MPP with stupid Hami, so I finally remember he had a town on the island we own.
Sent two cavs and now it is ours and we cover the whole island now. It came with a nice rax and a harbor.
Kill off some strays units coming in here and there and send 6 armies to Delhi as each will only attack once if I can. That works as it turns out it had 6 defenders.
5 armies move in to quell resisters and I now have Sun's. Sell of all structures, except the rax and disband units to rush the temple.
Next turn, I will turn as many pop as I can into CE's to speed up a market.
BTW Hami is on the other land, so he cannot do anything. I have rails up and the island mostly railed as well and it had 6 cavs.
Will probably keep all Indian towns now as they are hurting. I have split the civ in half.
IBT:
don't see this often, but Sumeria declare war on the Sumerians.
1695AD:
Nasty business for the AI, now I have rax in all towns as they are taken. This means all armies will heal after sitting one turn.
8 of the 11 Indian citizens are now CE's and will starve them down while they speed up a market.
Sanitation comes in and I go for Espionage. No rush to tanks and such. I have not started the Dam as I wanted to pop a hospital into the capitol first. It has a factory and can make up the time with the extra pop working tiles.
Even if it cannot make all of it up, no rush as the AI will not be there for some time, if ever.
Well when I went to switch from Hoovers, I got a bonus, it had enough shields to finish the hospital now.
1700AD:
19 turns needs for Hoovers now, it was 16 when I switched, so I only have to make up 4 and I come out with Hoovers and a Hospital. I could do it quickly by adding workers, but no need for that.
BTW I did Sanitation in 4 turns and Espionage is also 4 turns, with a slight surplus. I had to run a deficit on Sanitation.
Capture another city, decide not to sit on 9 resisters, so combat abandon it.
IBT:
Smoke signs an MPP with Ghandi, fine.
Then I am told their MPP forces Smoke to declare war on me?
Wait this is the IT, I have not attacked any Indian units?
Oh, well will be tough on Smoke when I get done with Ghandi.
India lands 2 units on the island.
1705AD:
Capture another city.
Kill two units in our land on the mainland.
Kill the units on the island.
1710AD:
5 more elites kill Mayans and get a leader.
Popped 10 of Smokes units.
Capture Calcutta.
Killed a NumMerc also.
1715AD:
Starting up the IA, researching Corp in 4 at -170gpt, with 650 in the kitty. Should be ok as I expect I can drop the last turn down as get it.
Smoke send 23 units in one stack to die.
I decided to hit India, I discovered that you had blown the reputation anyway. Razed a city.
1685AD:
Got a leader from an AC made Cav-9th. captured city, sold market. Again so little in a size 12 so late? Abandon and settler new town as this is next to Delhi.
Got another leader from AC Vs WE. The previous vs pike, both down to 2 hits.
Form 10th. It and another army capture another city. Sell market and bank and abandon.
Found new town on spot. Delhi is nearly surrounded by my towns now.
Well the great luck on elites end as 4 in a row failed to get a leader, not that I expect any, 2 out of 6 is nice.
India is so weak they only managed to send in 9 units. Losing 3 cities next to the capitol will not help them.
1690AD:
India had an MPP with stupid Hami, so I finally remember he had a town on the island we own.
Sent two cavs and now it is ours and we cover the whole island now. It came with a nice rax and a harbor.
Kill off some strays units coming in here and there and send 6 armies to Delhi as each will only attack once if I can. That works as it turns out it had 6 defenders.
5 armies move in to quell resisters and I now have Sun's. Sell of all structures, except the rax and disband units to rush the temple.
Next turn, I will turn as many pop as I can into CE's to speed up a market.
BTW Hami is on the other land, so he cannot do anything. I have rails up and the island mostly railed as well and it had 6 cavs.
Will probably keep all Indian towns now as they are hurting. I have split the civ in half.
IBT:
don't see this often, but Sumeria declare war on the Sumerians.
1695AD:
Nasty business for the AI, now I have rax in all towns as they are taken. This means all armies will heal after sitting one turn.
8 of the 11 Indian citizens are now CE's and will starve them down while they speed up a market.
Sanitation comes in and I go for Espionage. No rush to tanks and such. I have not started the Dam as I wanted to pop a hospital into the capitol first. It has a factory and can make up the time with the extra pop working tiles.
Even if it cannot make all of it up, no rush as the AI will not be there for some time, if ever.
Well when I went to switch from Hoovers, I got a bonus, it had enough shields to finish the hospital now.
1700AD:
19 turns needs for Hoovers now, it was 16 when I switched, so I only have to make up 4 and I come out with Hoovers and a Hospital. I could do it quickly by adding workers, but no need for that.
BTW I did Sanitation in 4 turns and Espionage is also 4 turns, with a slight surplus. I had to run a deficit on Sanitation.
Capture another city, decide not to sit on 9 resisters, so combat abandon it.
IBT:
Smoke signs an MPP with Ghandi, fine.
Then I am told their MPP forces Smoke to declare war on me?
Wait this is the IT, I have not attacked any Indian units?
Oh, well will be tough on Smoke when I get done with Ghandi.
India lands 2 units on the island.
1705AD:
Capture another city.
Kill two units in our land on the mainland.
Kill the units on the island.
1710AD:
5 more elites kill Mayans and get a leader.
Popped 10 of Smokes units.
Capture Calcutta.
Killed a NumMerc also.
1715AD:
Starting up the IA, researching Corp in 4 at -170gpt, with 650 in the kitty. Should be ok as I expect I can drop the last turn down as get it.
Smoke send 23 units in one stack to die.
1720AD:
Smoke only sends 9 unit, running out of steam already, yeah this is Regent.
Capture two more Indian cities.
Kill a few Indian units.
1730AD:
Set research to 50% +143gpt, Corp in 1 turn.
Sunk a couple of ships.
Autoraze an Indian town and captured another.
Kill about 7 more Mayan units and got another leader.
Formed 12th and put 3 units in it.
Slow going on the rest of the Indian towns as they are behind mountains and on tundra.
Going to rail towards them now that I can cover the workers.
I see I have moved into the top score now.
1735AD:
Capture 3 Indian towns. They have 1 left on the South West tundra and 5 on the South East area.
1740AD:
Capture the last one on the west.
Get another leader and form the 13th. Not enough vets to fill it now.
Nearly all cavs are in the armies, except for a handful of elites.
One of the Sumerians declared on me, think it is the top one.
Sunk another caravel of Hamies.
1745AD:
Capture 2 more cities.
Kill 8 or so Sumerians.
A few Mayans.
Found a town to fill out the tundra.
Captured another town and Ghandi is a 2 town civ.
1750AD:
Arabia declares and we lose fur, no problem as I will be adding in Incense next turn.
Capture the Carthage town and the incense.
Get another leader form 14th.
Get another leader and form 15th.
Still have not filled the 14th yet.
Got another leader, but I cannot form an army as I am at max now.
I will disband the MDI army next turn. No more elites will fight this round anyway and I have not fill the last two armies.
Two towns left, but they are behind mountains, so cannot get to them yet.
1720AD:
Smoke only sends 9 unit, running out of steam already, yeah this is Regent.
capture two more Indian cities.
Kill a few Indian units.
1730AD:
Set research to 50% +143gpt, Corp in 1 turn.
Sunk a couple of ships.
Autoraze an Indian town and captured another.
Kill about 7 more Mayan units and got another leader.
Formed 12th and put 3 units in it.
Slow going on the rest of the Indian towns as they are behind mountains and on tundra.
Going to rail towards them now that I can cover the workers.
I see I have moved into the top score now.
1735AD:
capture 3 Indian towns. They have 1 left on the South West tundra and 5 on the South East
area.
1740AD:
capture the last one on the west.
Get another leader and form the 13th. Not enough vets to fill it now.
Nearly all cavs are in the armies, except for a handful of elites.
One of the Sumerians declared on me, think it is the top one.
Sunk another caravel of Hamies.
1745AD:
capture 2 more cities.
kill 8 so Sumerians.
A few Mayans.
Found a town to fill out the tundra.
Captured another town and Ghandi is a 2 town civ.
1750AD:
Arbia declare and we lose fur, no problem as I will be adding in Incense next turn.
Capture the Carthage town and the incense.
Get another leader form 14th.
Get another leader and form 15th.
Still have not filled the 14th yet.
Got another leader, but I cannot form an army as I am at max now.
I will disband the MDI army next turn. No more elites will fight this round anyway and
I have not fill the last two armies.
Two towns left, but they are behind mountains, so cannot get to them yet.
Smoke only sends 9 unit, running out of steam already, yeah this is Regent.
Capture two more Indian cities.
Kill a few Indian units.
1730AD:
Set research to 50% +143gpt, Corp in 1 turn.
Sunk a couple of ships.
Autoraze an Indian town and captured another.
Kill about 7 more Mayan units and got another leader.
Formed 12th and put 3 units in it.
Slow going on the rest of the Indian towns as they are behind mountains and on tundra.
Going to rail towards them now that I can cover the workers.
I see I have moved into the top score now.
1735AD:
Capture 3 Indian towns. They have 1 left on the South West tundra and 5 on the South East area.
1740AD:
Capture the last one on the west.
Get another leader and form the 13th. Not enough vets to fill it now.
Nearly all cavs are in the armies, except for a handful of elites.
One of the Sumerians declared on me, think it is the top one.
Sunk another caravel of Hamies.
1745AD:
Capture 2 more cities.
Kill 8 or so Sumerians.
A few Mayans.
Found a town to fill out the tundra.
Captured another town and Ghandi is a 2 town civ.
1750AD:
Arabia declares and we lose fur, no problem as I will be adding in Incense next turn.
Capture the Carthage town and the incense.
Get another leader form 14th.
Get another leader and form 15th.
Still have not filled the 14th yet.
Got another leader, but I cannot form an army as I am at max now.
I will disband the MDI army next turn. No more elites will fight this round anyway and I have not fill the last two armies.
Two towns left, but they are behind mountains, so cannot get to them yet.
1720AD:
Smoke only sends 9 unit, running out of steam already, yeah this is Regent.
capture two more Indian cities.
Kill a few Indian units.
1730AD:
Set research to 50% +143gpt, Corp in 1 turn.
Sunk a couple of ships.
Autoraze an Indian town and captured another.
Kill about 7 more Mayan units and got another leader.
Formed 12th and put 3 units in it.
Slow going on the rest of the Indian towns as they are behind mountains and on tundra.
Going to rail towards them now that I can cover the workers.
I see I have moved into the top score now.
1735AD:
capture 3 Indian towns. They have 1 left on the South West tundra and 5 on the South East
area.
1740AD:
capture the last one on the west.
Get another leader and form the 13th. Not enough vets to fill it now.
Nearly all cavs are in the armies, except for a handful of elites.
One of the Sumerians declared on me, think it is the top one.
Sunk another caravel of Hamies.
1745AD:
capture 2 more cities.
kill 8 so Sumerians.
A few Mayans.
Found a town to fill out the tundra.
Captured another town and Ghandi is a 2 town civ.
1750AD:
Arbia declare and we lose fur, no problem as I will be adding in Incense next turn.
Capture the Carthage town and the incense.
Get another leader form 14th.
Get another leader and form 15th.
Still have not filled the 14th yet.
Got another leader, but I cannot form an army as I am at max now.
I will disband the MDI army next turn. No more elites will fight this round anyway and
I have not fill the last two armies.
Two towns left, but they are behind mountains, so cannot get to them yet.
