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Thoughts of Slavery

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ahmedhadzi, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. ahmedhadzi

    ahmedhadzi Relocation Consultant

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    I'm trying recently some new tactics, especially early rush and drafting. In my personal opinion there is no better leader than Montezuma for such a task. His unique unit and building are among the best in the game, and his traits fully support that style of play. I'm also a player on prince level (although moving up a level soon) and I think I understand power of slavery more and more. I had a question in mind which is maybe a question of game mechanics.
    When you use slavery and drafting in newly captured cities which have overwhelming culture which is not yours, wouldn't be logical that using these options will diminish cultural presence of the foreign nation? I mean if you will slave and draft wouldn't you use people of the other nationality before yours? These options in this cities can of course be balanced with let's say prolonged unhappiness from slavery and maybe a unit which starts with negative expirience if drafted (so they need more time to get promotions)?
    Do you think that slavery would be overpowered in that case?
    These are all gameplay mechanics questions, I'm not looking for any moral discussions on this issue which of course may arise.

    Looking forward to your thoughts and answers...
     
  2. mica8911

    mica8911 Warlord

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    I think that using slavery in a newly captured city would have more revolts in that case.
     
  3. scothed

    scothed Chieftain

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    I think it would be interesting to have a function where by troops produced in a captured city, whose culture is not majorly your own, could have a risk of rebelling and fighting against you. Also, this would be interesting if that cities original country is still free and functioning where this unit could turn and fight for them. Or even if that country has been wiped out or made a vassal these 'turned' troops could liberate a city under the banner of "Free <insert country>"
     
  4. TheOgre

    TheOgre Chieftain

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    my captured cities always revolt for this reason, so i find myself razing cities to destroy foreign culture presence. otherwise i have to build monument, theater, temple and monastary. much easier to raze the city causing the culture problem and place my own settler.

    Scothed -

    in RFC, there is a similar mechanic, where a civ spawns and if you have a city in its core area, troops will rebel to join its civ.

    personally, i find culture slider and city razing to fix the revolt problem better than making a bunch of buildings.
     
  5. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

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    Except the razing the city does not eliminate the culture problem. "Culture" remains on the map on the tiles that the city formerly controlled. Blowing up the city and placing a new one will still show overwhelming foreign culture in it. The only reason revolt chance would be lower is because there isn't as much pop in the city. And you can easily "use" the population through the whip (although not the draft, unless you have more than 10% culture) to quickly throw up some buildings there.

    Blowing up the city usually isn't a good idea if you're going to refound it in the exact same spot, since you are basically forfeiting all the population and captured buildings in the city (along with wonders and any settled great people). The only reason I can think for doing something like that is if you're using a Combat Settler, and rushing an airport so you can airlift reinforcements in.
     
  6. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    If you REALLY want an early rush, nothing like HC of the incans, who have the Quecha. A Quecha Rush on difficulties were the AI has archery is insanely effective (overrun their capitol with them!!)
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Culture is based on tiles, not pop, so having slavery or drafting impact it would be difficult.

    You can compensate for AI culture in a couple ways, and you can completely remove all AI culture if you kill it outright.

    Note that you can't draft unless at least 10% of the tile culture for the city is your own. You can slave though, and to an extent this CAN help get rid of anger by whipping it away :p. You have to whip for multiple pop though, since whipping itself creates anger.

    The whip is powerful, by the way. You get armies like this over 20 turns or less:

    Spoiler from monarch student V in strategy and tips, ~ 1350 AD:

    Spoiler :


    Drafting can be good too (this one's emperor):



    In both cases (mass whipping and drafting of advanced units), you probably want 1) theater and 2) coliseum. With those two buildings, you get +2 base :) and another 3 :) per 20% culture. So, running culture at 40% will give you 6 happiness - enough to stack quite a few two pop whips or keep your draft cycle going a long time if you have the globe theater, even with a relatively small empire.

    Also note that whips are affected by multipliers like forges and heroic epic, so get those if possible.
     
  8. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    Please, for God's sake, nobody ever make a mod with an AI who plays like TMIT. No one will ever win a game again.

    And if those are screenies from your games, nicely done sir! :)
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    They're me alright...I just wish Immortal went this smoothly every time...that's where I'm struggling at the moment (I'm starting to get it though. If you want to use cottages as the basis for your nonbulb research one of the easiest/most consistent ways is a massive library/academy/university/oxford/observatory bureaucracy capitol). I've had such a capitol hand me around 300 bpt by itself in the mid-late ADs, and higher when running deficit research or building wealth. Couple that with a bulb here and there and enough expansion, and all you have to do is survive ;).

    The large/emp one that isn't in the spoiler could be a little tricky if you're not careful though, given how the religions tend to fall in that one.

    If you think this is impressive...well I think the same thing about ABigCivFan, Unconquered Sun, Snaaty, etc. Nothing like seeing someone smack down deity AIs with infantry around 1200-1300 AD. U Sun wins liberalism well before 500 AD consistently, and on normal speed!
     
  10. ahmedhadzi

    ahmedhadzi Relocation Consultant

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    I haven't thought of that, but that would be also cool addition to the game. Spicy it up a notch.
    And TMIT also had a point that people doesn't influence the culture, but maybe should be connected like 1 pop for let's say 3% or so...
     
  11. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    It's been a while since I've played a game using the Revolution mod, but doesn't the new Rev' mod version include some of this? I'm thinking of Rise of Mankind 2.5, because I play it occasionally and it includes Rev'DCM. I may have to start a game today and see, but I do remember a "Traitor" function...

    @TMIT:
    It's a trickle-down effect. You look up to those guys, and I look up to players like you and a few others (as well as those guys). Heck, there might even be someone out there playing on Chieftan who might look up to me. (And if you're the guy, stop reading what I say and admire someone who makes sense on a regular basis. :lol:)

    Everybody has their own level that they aspire to. Personally, anybody who can win at Monarch and above is a civ god in my book, and is worthy of my respect. :)
     

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