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thoughts on civ vi from old-timers

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by LoudScott, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. TehJumpingJawa

    TehJumpingJawa Warlord

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    Underlying mechanics are sound?!? You having a laugh?!
    • Terrain is extremely imbalanced (hills=king).
    • Military balance is out of whack (melee is junk-tier)
    • At least 3 of the economic inputs (food, hammers, and beakers) are out of whack (hammers god-tier, science worthless, food mostly worthless).
    • Civics range from completely worthless, to insanely OP.
    • Same goes for the Civilizations/leaders; we've got some with obviously broken combos, and others that have so little synergy with the mechanics of the game that it makes you wonder what they were thinking.
    • Religions is just buffs. The combat aspect is mono-dimensional, and thus tedious & boring.
    • Culture/Tourism is an enigma to all.
    • Many of the wonders aren't even worth sacrificing a city tile for, let alone spending hammers on them!!
    The mechanics as they are right now favour one thing; Domination. Make an insurmountable army->go on the war path->upgrade as you go->win the game.
    There is absolutely no mechanic to inhibit expansion through conquest (and/or stealing workers/settlers). In my book that's a MAJOR flaw.

    However much I hated civ5's global happiness (give me back civ4's city maintenance any day!), civ6's amenities system is not a suitable substitute.
    Its fundamental flaw being that your conquests will by-and-large be self-sustaining, either because of their own districts, or thanks to the new luxuries their land gives you access to.

    There are other factors that result in unimpeded military expansion too:
    • cultural borders are static & immediately inherited by any captor
    • captured cities have no unrest, and besides damaged structures and paused growth, instantly become 100% productive members of your civ.
    More begets more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  2. idjit

    idjit Chieftain

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    To me, another old fart, it feels broken, nebulous and untested. Jarring interactions with the AI notwithstanding.
     
  3. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    The complaint that the game is 'incomplete' is a curious one; I would've thought that incompleteness is one of the things the game cannot be fairly accused of (and many reviewers seem to agree). A frequent comment about the positives of Civ6 has been that it includes a lot of the features that have previously only been included in expansions, making it the most 'complete' vanilla civ game yet.
     
  4. TapewormLondon24

    TapewormLondon24 Chieftain

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    I seriously can't understand how anyone can suggest this is worse than 5!

    This version is a great Base game. Few niggles, but nothing that can't be fixed.

    Civ 5 was total rubbish at release. Total utter rubbish. And it only got decent right at the end of its life span, after they added what they cut out of Civ 4!! The game was toilet.

    Civ 5 is easily the worst game of the series. Heck, I think 6 is better than 5 right now!
     
  5. TehJumpingJawa

    TehJumpingJawa Warlord

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    When you copy/paste features and stick them together without a cohesive design, you end up with things like this:

     
  6. dwarfling

    dwarfling Chieftain

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    Is the AI completely lackluster and the UI a mess? Well yes, but I wouldn't say the game lacks features. I mean, so far the only feature it seems to be lacking is Diplomatic Victory, but we got Religion Victory instead.
     
  7. WankIT

    WankIT Chieftain

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    been playing since early teenager on my x386. civ original. only non sports game i play. must wait for tbe hate but i miss the call to power 1 and 2. guess i like the stacks of doom. but there was a big bump from civ2 i think it was to call to power.

    but i do feel its incomplete only cause there is no world builder. i dont like playing uncustomized games. i am the consumer. where the hell is it. the could have had it on time. i feel like i am just practicing until they release it.

    but thats my two cents. i am not a gamer and quite frankly its embarrasing being 40 and buying a laptop just for civ. dont care what wife thinks since whatever she thinks i am she is the fool that married me. though its pron a surprise fir her since i reaaly didnt play civ5 cause the mods kept on crashing so i got fed up.
     
  8. TwiceTheJava

    TwiceTheJava Chieftain

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    I like vanilla V over vanilla VI so far, but to be fair I've got over 1,000 hours in V. I like VI's customizable civics. That and the main theme are the only things about VI that I like better than V. I've been playing since II.
     
  9. Larsenex

    Larsenex King

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    ^^^^ This is pretty much how I feel as well. (In response to OP)
     
  10. Skulbow

    Skulbow The Lonely Cyclist

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    I'm going to add my thoughts as well. Played 150 hrs in CivIV, 800hrs in CivV and so far already 50 hours in CivVI so I think I am fairly experienced and while VI has flaws at present, it is an enjoyable game to play and the flaws on the whole can be fixed with a few patches. I would like the Ai tweaked, UI gone over and some balancing done. I can also see some wonderful things that could be added with DLCs and mods. I would like to see diplomatic and economic victories added sometime in the future. The government features can be improved upon with mods.
    So at launch a very good game (not perfect) but still with a lot of potential to come in the next few months.
     
  11. Photi

    Photi Governor

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    My first game was in 93 or 94 on a mac, so many countless and enjoyable hours playing Civ original back in my college days. Loved 2, I like 3, 4BTS is probably my favorite, didn't play 5, and now probably 30-40 hours playing 6 this past week i anticipate it becoming my all time favorite. Military to me seems usually something to build after i get attacked or am clearly about to be attacked, so all the fuss about the AI must not really matter much to my style of play. I can say without a doubt military domination is not the only way to play 6, in my current game (Epic, King, Rome, legendary start, standard size, random map (i ended up w/continents)), none of the other civs have a chance of catching me. It's like the 1400s maybe, haven't researched flight yet but it's available, i have 20 cities, only 4 of which were acquired from other civs, two of which are size 18 and growing rapidly with housing to 28, by the end of tonight's session i predict i'll have 4-5 cities over 20 pop, and several more in the mid to upper teens. I don't know which victory path i'll end up heading in, don't really matter. Next game i'll have to up the difficulty level. I think 6 has some great new dynamics just barely explored, if the year-or-two-down-the-line-expansion is anything like 4 vanilla to BTS, an already incredible new game will be legendary, again. So many finer touches in this minting, from the day/night cycle, the functioning lighthouses, Petra for that one powerhouse desert city, coastal tiles that may or may not be embarkable or disembarkable (making possibility of canal cities to be truly fortress-like), the districts, the builders, civics and policies, and all the rest of the stuff that is new and interesting...Civilization VI is already legendary in my book.
     
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  12. Menzies

    Menzies Menzies

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    It is easily the most functional and complete release we've had since an era where such quirks in games were just "a part of it". It's shipped in a better state than Civ IV or V, arguably a better state that Civ IV after Beyond the Sword first dropped even.
     
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  13. Photi

    Photi Governor

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    correction from above, i just loaded the game, and the year is actually 1625 and Rome has a population of 21. Arpinum is the desert city, and you can see Aachen is 19 and soon to be 20:

    rome 1625.png
     
  14. Aetrius

    Aetrius Chieftain

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    I've been playing since Civ 1 (Tandy 486 with a whopping 4 megs of RAM), and I was pretty excited for this game. After starting a couple and playing one game all the way through, I gotta say I'm not as excited anymore. Early game isn't bad, actually Barbarians are way more of a threat than they've been in ages, but each era of the game seems to be less fun than the one before. The split science and culture trees make tech come way too soon, I had planes in the 1500s. But my biggest complaint is that I feel like I have way too little information about what's going on in the game, even though I have to manage a ton of cities. There doesn't seem to be any reason not to go big, but if you do, expect each turn to last about a month as you make 2000 decisions in cities you'd have just given over to the governor in the old days. Also, the AI is painfully bad, not only in diplomacy, but my god they're stupid at war. I conquered 3 civilizations with 6 units that I just upgraded all the way through the game in my last playthrough, and I wasn't even going conquest, I just got tired of the idiots denouncing me, or *****ing about something every 5 minutes. When 5 came out, I bought it, played through once or twice and then went back to 4 until gods & kings came out. I think 6 might force me back to 4 for a while again too. I really want to like this game, but for the first time I can ever remember while playing Civ, I was actually bored. By the end of my first play through, I was just waiting to finish my Mars mission so I could quit win. There wasn't any fun by that point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  15. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    I've played civilization games since I was a little kid. From Civ3 to Civ BE. Including Civ Revolutions and the Beyond Earth into space board game on steam. Forgot name.

    I play on biggest maps possible for my PC. I refused to purchase CIV6 because Firaxis was behaving so very suspiciously when asked about map sizes. They said, yeah, maps is bigger than usual, but refused to disclosed which map size got increased. After abit that Civ6 came out, I learned that Huge map got it's size shrunk.

    Then I referred to my previous gameplay experience on Beyond Earth and it's expansion pack. I had so much trouble because the maps in Beyond Earth was so unacceptably small on "Huge" to the point where the game just wasn't that fun at all. And then concluded that I would suffer through same pains if I purchased and play Civ6. Therefore, I decided to not get Civ6.

    :/

    I cannot say anything and I am speculating that Civ6 is likely far more complete and interesting than Civ5 was on release. However Firaxis' choice in "Huge" map size reduction is very regrettable and I would've preferred that it increased in size. Best wishes to all that can enjoy Civ6. I'll be sitting this one out as it turns out.

    At least I now know that Map Size is most important feature for me when it comes to civilization games otherwise I'd have bought it already. lol Alright, I said my piece. I'm moving on now.
     
  16. Photi

    Photi Governor

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    Oh man, I had a good 3-4 minute laugh off this post, literally. That's funny shet!
     
  17. Qin Shi Hung

    Qin Shi Hung Chieftain

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    Civ VI is a beautiful game with interesting systems, but no challenge because the AI is poor, predictable, and passive.

    I'd love to get my hands on the source code to improve the AI.
     
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  18. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Conquistador

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    Compared to other vanilla releases?

    -Many more features.
    -More or less the same balance / UI / AI issues.

    Therefore, a contender for best in the series even in its current state.
     
  19. Roald Amundsen

    Roald Amundsen Warlord

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    Actually this game reminds me of the release of HOMM IV.
     
  20. Roald Amundsen

    Roald Amundsen Warlord

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    Think you Are nailing the coffin here. I'll refer to this post in the future! :)
     

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