Three Gorges Dam causing +2 unhealthiness

[kingbeef]

I'm currently playing a game as Ethiopia on BTS 3.19 with the BUG mod running.

I built factories in my cities and held off on any form of power until I could get the Three Gorges Dam complete to stop any problems with health. I was under the impression that all my cities would gain the benefit of hydro power and that there would be no unhealthiness caused but, after completion of the dam, I noticed that all of my cities had +2 unhealthiness described as "from power".

Should this have happened or is it a possible bug? Am I missing something else which is causing the +2 unhealthiness?

 

[Tristan_C]

In the latest version, or BTS in general (can't remember) power gives 2 regardless of the source

 

[kingbeef]

Thanks.

Does that mean coal plants will cause even more than the +2 that other power sources will cause? They would surely decimate most cities around the time they become available.

 

[Willem]

They would surely decimate most cities around the time they become available.

Not really. By the time they come around, you should have a few buildings in place that reduce unhealthiness and be trading for all sorts of health resources. Healthiness was a bit of a joke previously, it was way too easy to avoid having any unhealthy cities at all. This balances things out better really.

 

[Sportyatuncw06]

This is garbage. What's the point of a hydro plant then? I wait for them all the time. I might as well build coal plants then.

 

[Dr.Null]

This is garbage. What's the point of a hydro plant then? I wait for them all the time. I might as well build coal plants then.

The pollution you suffer from a coal plant is in addition to the pollution you get from having power.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Environmentalism is practically a necessity for bringing under control.

 

[Trev]

Learn Genetics and get 3 health.

 

[azzaman333]

The pollution you suffer from a coal plant is in addition to the pollution you get from having power.

Environmentalism is practically a necessity for bringing under control.

I've never needed Environmentalism to control . Either I'm in Free Market with Sid's Sushi giving me more food than I know what to do with anyway, or I'm in State Property and can easily afford to build the buildings that cancel out

 

[Brownsfan02]

i guess you learn something new every day, I never knew hydro plants gave off un-healthyness

 

[TheWilltoAct]

I've never needed Environmentalism to control . Either I'm in Free Market with Sid's Sushi giving me more food than I know what to do with anyway, or I'm in State Property and can easily afford to build the buildings that cancel out

TheMeInTeam (a well regarded poster whose insights I respect) aspoused the benefits of Environmentalism + Coal Plants awhile back, I think the point of his argument was that in order to get your factories operating at full power with the greatest speed you needed to rely on Environmentalism. If you prefer to use Sid's that's fine, I don't have a lot of experience with running corporations, but I do think using sheer quantity of food to offset unhealth is potentially a tremendous waste.

Of course you can try to brute force away the by building buildings but it gets very costly once you start building hospitals and things, and even assuming you have numerous health resources and can see substantial benefit from building a grocer you are still unlikely to cancel out the in your larger cities.

A factory's negative impact on a city is gruesome without some substantial measures employed to counteract the tremendous amount of .

 

[azzaman333]

i guess you learn something new every day, I never knew hydro plants gave off un-healthyness

Technically, they don't. They cause an extra 2 from the factory though.

TheMeInTeam (a well regarded poster whose insights I respect) aspoused the benefits of Environmentalism + Coal Plants awhile back, I think the point of his argument was that in order to get your factories operating at full power with the greatest speed you needed to rely on Environmentalism. If you prefer to use Sid's that's fine, I don't have a lot of experience with running corporations, but I do think using sheer quantity of food to offset unhealth is potentially a tremendous waste.

Of course you can try to brute force away the by building buildings but it gets very costly once you start building hospitals and things, and even assuming you have numerous health resources and can see substantial benefit from building a grocer you are still unlikely to cancel out the in your larger cities.

A factory's negative impact on a city is gruesome without some substantial measures employed to counteract the tremendous amount of .

I tend to pack my cities in fairly close, so the from factories doesn't hurt me as much as it might otherwise. Also, I don't consider losing 1 food per to be a particularly damaging effect. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's not going to hurt me unlike

 

[Silu]

Technically, they don't. They cause an extra 2 from the factory though.

Technically, you're wrong - Hydro Plants give Power, which gives +2 with or without a Factory (even though Power is useless without a Factory). This is also the cause for the OPs concern I guess, since he got unhealthiness even in cities without a Factory.

Depending on the circumstances, Enviromentalism can be a good answer. Usually mostly for cottage-driven small empires, which 1) don't have a lot of resources of their own, and trades are unreliable at times 2) wouldn't get massive benefits from widespread corpos 3) don't want SP since mowing Towns for 'Shops is dumb. Most of the time Enviro sucks though and widespread corpos or SP should be aimed for instead.

Note that Enviro certainly doesn't prevent the use of corpos, only widespread use in big empires. Getting a big Mining Inc from trades and spreading it to key prod cities only in Enviro is very efficient for Space Race with small empires.

 

[azzaman333]

I thought power only caused 2 when there's a factory in the city?

Don't have civ on this PC so can't check now to confirm, but I'm sure the didn't apply til I built the factory...

 

[Silu]

I thought power only caused 2 when there's a factory in the city?

Don't have civ on this PC so can't check now to confirm, but I'm sure the didn't apply til I built the factory...

You cannot build power plants if you don't have a Factory, so it takes special circumstances for this to happen. Most common is capturing a city so that the Factory gets destroyed but the power plant doesn't. 3GD is another, so is the Factory fire event etc.

 

[Tristan_C]

A city can wile away half the modern era constructing those late health buildings. If any player is anywhere near victory, those should get put towards something more immediate.

 

[azzaman333]

You cannot build power plants if you don't have a Factory, so it takes special circumstances for this to happen. Most common is capturing a city so that the Factory gets destroyed but the power plant doesn't. 3GD is another, so is the Factory fire event etc.

I know.

 

[kivanc]

half building 3 georges dam with a GE pays out very well.


i cannot remember now, so let me ask a silly question. if you build the 3georges dam and then a coal plant in a city, do we have +50% for power and another +50% for coal plant? or is only 1 of them enough?

i think not cumulative, or at least i didn't try it in the last game. and the game generally ends before the player really needs to switch environmentalism.

if we could build a coal plant, a hydro plant, a nuclear plant and/or 3georges dam and each gave a +25% cumulative in hammers, then i would build them in all my huge prod cities and switch to environmentalism.

 

[Silu]

Power is power, having multiple sources of power does not give extra bonuses.

 

[bestsss]

>>3) don't want SP since mowing Towns for 'Shops is dumb.
Blasphemy.
Converting a riverside flood plains town into a watermill feels good and certainly committing to the final war doesn't require commerce any longer.
Just checked again, still feels good.

My favorite use of environmentalism (aside OCC) is late culture and having higher population is definitely a bonus.