Time for some bullying (or not)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Looks like you got a lot done!
Also, I think you forgot to attach the save.
The barbarians feel a lot more aggressive than I am used to.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the significance of a 10xp unit?
10xp opens up the Heroic Epic, yes those barbs seem more agg. We need some more fog-busters.
Looks like a good set but.... you forgot the save.
Regarding dotmap:
-NW peninsula for 2 fish
-on the copper for copper/silver/fish/marble/fur (fast HE)
-NW of pig for pig/deer/silk
-SE of sheep for sheep/deer/spices
Which puts us at 8 cities with a bunch of
resources.
Personally, I would start pissing off Peach Mansa (the usual color Mansa) to our East. His capital seems yummy. Nothing prevents us from bullying more than one at the same time though
Regarding dotmap:
-NW peninsula for 2 fish
-on the copper for copper/silver/fish/marble/fur (fast HE)
-NW of pig for pig/deer/silk
-SE of sheep for sheep/deer/spices
Which puts us at 8 cities with a bunch of
resources.Personally, I would start pissing off Peach Mansa (the usual color Mansa) to our East. His capital seems yummy. Nothing prevents us from bullying more than one at the same time though
BEHOLD!
As you can see, I suck with paint...
White dot: We shall definitely keep it, because it doesn't overlap too much with Kossin's City (red dot)
Grey Dot: I think that we shall resettle it 1E to avoid overlapping useful tiles
And weird as it shall sound I'd suggest settling both yellows dots, (yes, on top of copper) but if you disagree perhaps blue, or even green could be viable spots (although I don't really think that that icy corner have enough
to work both furs, the silver mine and the cooper)As I said before: we NEED more miltary... why to build cities when you can conquer 'em?
Slibluhr, the problem I see with your dotmap is too many cities and some that will take forever to become useful/contribute to the empire. Moreover, it wastes a lot of green tiles close to our cities.
For example, orange dot has 4 snow tiles that are unusable, as well as several tundras. It also overlaps quite a bit with grey but you addressed that problem by moving it 1E.
Here is the dotmap I meant in my post (you can also notice I also suck at Paint! sorry for doubled colors - thank god for BUG mod).
The only spot that will not be contributing much is Blue. But its purpose is to get us resources. That's 4 if we get a market and forge otherwise 2 so it's a great city in it's own. Combined with the fish, it can work the silver and 2 scientists/more tiles if we want (or grow on coast and build Moai is another possibility).
Western Red is an obvious GP farm. Could also build Globe Theater there. Moai is also a good idea as it has a bit more water than Blue.
Yellow has 2 food resources, spices (3) and several green tiles for either whippable farms or cottages. There's an alternative to this one, placing it SW from my proposed location(but I prefer it where I put it). It grabs the extra spice but trades a grassland and a plains for a grassland hill and an unimprovable coast as well as waste the deer (and no, a city north to grab the deer (4)is not worth it.)
Similarly, Eastern Red also gets 2 food resources and a silk, plus many green tiles.
From my count, this only loses 4 grassland, a grassland spice and a grassland hill. Spice isn't the best resource ever so I wouldn't sweat over it.
Lastly 4 cities has way less upkeep than 6.
I would leave the east desert area (has a few green tiles) to Mansa to develop so we can pillage/capture it at a later time.
For example, orange dot has 4 snow tiles that are unusable, as well as several tundras. It also overlaps quite a bit with grey but you addressed that problem by moving it 1E.
Here is the dotmap I meant in my post (you can also notice I also suck at Paint! sorry for doubled colors - thank god for BUG mod).
The only spot that will not be contributing much is Blue. But its purpose is to get us resources. That's 4
if we get a market and forge otherwise 2 so it's a great city in it's own. Combined with the fish, it can work the silver and 2 scientists/more tiles if we want (or grow on coast and build Moai is another possibility).Western Red is an obvious GP farm. Could also build Globe Theater there. Moai is also a good idea as it has a bit more water than Blue.
Yellow has 2 food resources, spices (3
) and several green tiles for either whippable farms or cottages. There's an alternative to this one, placing it SW from my proposed location(but I prefer it where I put it). It grabs the extra spice but trades a grassland and a plains for a grassland hill and an unimprovable coast as well as waste the deer (and no, a city north to grab the deer (4)is not worth it.)Similarly, Eastern Red also gets 2 food resources and a silk, plus many green tiles.
From my count, this only loses 4 grassland, a grassland spice and a grassland hill. Spice isn't the best resource ever so I wouldn't sweat over it.
Lastly 4 cities has way less upkeep than 6.
I would leave the east desert area (has a few green tiles) to Mansa to develop so we can pillage/capture it at a later time.
Its not as bad as it looks. If we connect copper to the capital I think we might be able to whip a axe in city. We can certainly whip a warrior this turn.
The Ai has a habit of building lots of spears if you just have chariots.
Lets not panic yet! Our science does seem a touch slow. lack of cottages? Need to study save when more awake.
The Ai has a habit of building lots of spears if you just have chariots.
Lets not panic yet! Our science does seem a touch slow. lack of cottages? Need to study save when more awake.
Yeah I didn't cottage much either. Was afraid to open borders and demand some techs. Really didn't know which direction team wanted to go in. I should have tried to start specializing our cities. Need to find out where are commerce is coming from.
Ok, just looked at the save.
Good set
.
With everyone's permission, I will rename some cities as it's a headache to spell everytime
There are 2 warriors sitting in Lolco, any reasons? I'll send one fogbusting to the west. There are a few roads that weren't needed just yet but it's no biggie. Same for some improvements east.
We don't need more warriors, we've already got a 6gpt unit upkeep - there are 2 in the threatened city. I'll cancel one currently being built the other fogbusts east. The barb troubles are almost over and Axes will be available soon.
Here's my proposed dotmap, done in BUG:
Things to do:
-Lolco builds stable whip>Library or HA
-road to peach Mansa for
-revolt to Hinduism as it spreads
-connect copper
-built a couple settlers. I would prioritize yellow dot for the resources and the marble for HE/NE. We also need to take out the barb cities for the other sites. We can also settle the double-fish site
-rebuild improvements
-let Teotihuacan grow to 4 since the
will wear off at the same turn.
-trade for Alphabet, Mathematics, IW, lower end techs (archery,sailing,religious line)
-make an enemy(ies)
-start building some units to take the barb cities (stables+HAs?)
-what to do with the GS? Settle? Academy? Keep for bulbing?
-techpath? I'm thinking Aesthetics (HE/NE+tradebait)>Drama(tradebait) so we can bulb Philosophy and trade it around. We can also go for Currency but I think Mansas will go for that sooner than later. Construction we can trade for.
-Workers will need to road to Yellow dot as it is caught in between two patches of ice.
Too much for 10 turns but it's a start.
Things to decide:
-dotmap
-friends/foes
-techpath
-City specialization
I would make cow misser the science bureau capital.
Other cities whipping factories with Tenochtitlan as HE. Not a great HE city but better than nothing I guess. Will be better come workshops.
Anything I miss?
Good set
.With everyone's permission, I will rename some cities as it's a headache to spell everytime
There are 2 warriors sitting in Lolco, any reasons? I'll send one fogbusting to the west. There are a few roads that weren't needed just yet but it's no biggie. Same for some improvements east.
We don't need more warriors, we've already got a 6gpt unit upkeep - there are 2 in the threatened city. I'll cancel one currently being built the other fogbusts east. The barb troubles are almost over and Axes will be available soon.
Here's my proposed dotmap, done in BUG:
Things to do:
-Lolco builds stable whip>Library or HA
-road to peach Mansa for
-revolt to Hinduism as it spreads
-connect copper
-built a couple settlers. I would prioritize yellow dot for the
resources and the marble for HE/NE. We also need to take out the barb cities for the other sites. We can also settle the double-fish site-rebuild improvements
-let Teotihuacan grow to 4 since the
will wear off at the same turn.-trade for Alphabet, Mathematics, IW, lower end techs (archery,sailing,religious line)
-make an enemy(ies)
-start building some units to take the barb cities (stables+HAs?)
-what to do with the GS? Settle? Academy? Keep for bulbing?
-techpath? I'm thinking Aesthetics (HE/NE+tradebait)>Drama(tradebait) so we can bulb Philosophy and trade it around. We can also go for Currency but I think Mansas will go for that sooner than later. Construction we can trade for.
-Workers will need to road to Yellow dot as it is caught in between two patches of ice.
Too much for 10 turns but it's a start.
Things to decide:
-dotmap
-friends/foes
-techpath
-City specialization
I would make cow misser the science bureau capital.
Other cities whipping factories with Tenochtitlan as HE. Not a great HE city but better than nothing I guess. Will be better come workshops.
Anything I miss?
@ Kossin I tried roading to Peach mansa if you see down near Ten.
Question I thought we were connected though looking at BUG mod. Between power and OB near name section. Am I right or am I wrong?
2 Warriors in Lolco because spear was heading there but went to Teo. I should have moved him west to fogbust that samll fogged area.
DOT map looks Ok to me. So does teching Aest for trading and the HE.
Question I thought we were connected though looking at BUG mod. Between power and OB near name section. Am I right or am I wrong?
2 Warriors in Lolco because spear was heading there but went to Teo. I should have moved him west to fogbust that samll fogged area.
DOT map looks Ok to me. So does teching Aest for trading and the HE.
I don't think so as we don't have Sailing for river connections outside our culture.
OK for warriors, couldn't tell.
Can the city be saved from the barb spearman??? We have 2 warriors. If the first dies the city will be in real trouble if we dont have axes.
We could trade HBR for sailing?
There's a chariot that can move in the city this turn.
Our warriors should have a decent chance at taking out the spear:
2+10% strength+20% culture+25% from city = 3.1 vs. 4 The second warrior or chariot can finish him off. In the odd case that he beats the warrior unharmed, I'll whip another one or an axe.
I'll trade for Sailing in a turn or two or could try to bully a Mansa into giving it to us...
Our warriors should have a decent chance at taking out the spear:
2+10% strength+20% culture+25% from city = 3.1 vs. 4 The second warrior or chariot can finish him off. In the odd case that he beats the warrior unharmed, I'll whip another one or an axe.
I'll trade for Sailing in a turn or two or could try to bully a Mansa into giving it to us...
I don't think so as we don't have Sailing for river connections outside our culture.
OK for warriors, couldn't tell.
OK thanks for the clarification. See learned something already from this game.
Kossin, your dotmap equals to the same number of settlers that mine, on less city and one spices less.
The red point is a really future city (just to trade furs to some mansa)
Blue and yellow are ok, even your location for pig city (conveniently pink) is ok.
But I can't understand why we shall put your blue city there when we can keep the barb's one and later in the game found orange one.
IMHO take care of orange's forest + lighthouse + moai + Replacement Parts = decent production city. But meanwhile it can grant some commerce... even to pay for itself with deers + lightouse.
And that extra spice can prove useful in trades, after all, it's a resource
please, can you explain why those cities are going to require too long to be useful?
The red point is a really future city (just to trade furs to some mansa)
Blue and yellow are ok, even your location for pig city (conveniently pink) is ok.
But I can't understand why we shall put your blue city there when we can keep the barb's one and later in the game found orange one.
IMHO take care of orange's forest + lighthouse + moai + Replacement Parts = decent production city. But meanwhile it can grant some commerce... even to pay for itself with deers + lightouse.
And that extra spice can prove useful in trades, after all, it's a
resourceplease, can you explain why those cities are going to require too long to be useful?
If we're going to war, then we need less cities otherwise upkeep will kill us. If we are planning a peaceful approach then I would probably agree to get more cities. It kinda defeats the point of the SG but it certainly is not out of the books. Might be harder to keep up in techs than warring I think.
We'd also need more workers than with less cities. I have two cities less planned.
I guess my objection comes mostly from the facts that:
- more cities = more upkeep
- added to the fact that our research is pretty low right now.
- less cities with more food = better cities that come online sooner
- cities with too much overlap or tundra/desert/snow should only be built to claim >1 resource
- We might not get Calendar so soon
- We will be whipping a lot so we need a higher surplus. anger goes away after 5 turns with the Sacrificial Altar, I don't think 1 extra resource will be life threatening, anyway not in any matter that a military police can manage under HR. We can always bully it out of a Mansa
In any case, I will never agree to building your Red, it's just bad At least not before Biology/Communism
Orange I would not settle before at least CS.
I'll play my set tomorrow, in the meantime let's ask the group to decide if we keep the western barb city or not. IMO, quality>quantity.
We'd also need more workers than with less cities. I have two cities less planned.
I guess my objection comes mostly from the facts that:
- more cities = more upkeep
- added to the fact that our research is pretty low right now.
- less cities with more food = better cities that come online sooner
- cities with too much overlap or tundra/desert/snow should only be built to claim >1 resource
- We might not get Calendar so soon
- We will be whipping a lot so we need a higher
surplus. anger goes away after 5 turns with the Sacrificial Altar, I don't think 1 extra resource will be life threatening, anyway not in any matter that a military police can manage under HR. We can always bully it out of a MansaIn any case, I will never agree to building your Red, it's just bad
At least not before Biology/CommunismOrange I would not settle before at least CS.
I'll play my set tomorrow, in the meantime let's ask the group to decide if we keep the western barb city or not. IMO, quality>quantity.
mlinneak
Prince
Your plan looks good, kossin.
The only thing I would say - and it's just as a reminder because I am sure you already planned on this, is to try to get as much as you can out of HBR. There are 5 Mansas who can trade techs right now so ideally you should be able to get something different out of each one of them. I imagine we will have to plan our research carefully so we learn techs that no one else has to get the most trade value from them. We will only be able to bully so much I'm sure.
As far as the dotmaps, I'm fine with either of them. Upkeep might be a deterrant to more cities, but we should also keep in mind that if it comes to space, we will likely need the additional production. What do you guys think?
The only thing I would say - and it's just as a reminder because I am sure you already planned on this, is to try to get as much as you can out of HBR. There are 5 Mansas who can trade techs right now so ideally you should be able to get something different out of each one of them. I imagine we will have to plan our research carefully so we learn techs that no one else has to get the most trade value from them. We will only be able to bully so much I'm sure.
As far as the dotmaps, I'm fine with either of them. Upkeep might be a deterrant to more cities, but we should also keep in mind that if it comes to space, we will likely need the additional production. What do you guys think?
If we want high food surpluses, we shall not befriend orange! he is in the middle of a jungle path (grassland heavy terrain!)...
Re-settling barb city 2 E has the same qty of grasslands + a desert hill + an overlapped forested hill
I know that where it is it overlaps fishy town, but either way we are only going to whip the hell out of that city (+8 at pop 2 + 11 self sustaining tiles with lighthouse) we can whip since lvl 3 without any problem!, and that's why we shouldn't care about giving a few tiles.
I'm complaining about the extra settler needed and the hammers not invested in military
It doesn't really matter the upkeep as far as we keep on constant warring with at least 2 mansas. and spying an allied one. captured gold + pillaged gold 30%-40% slide can sustain our empire for a while and to avoid falling too far behind our beloved mansas in tech, EBE Tactics... Espionage, Bully, Extortion 'em without mercy should be enough.
Re-settling barb city 2 E has the same qty of grasslands + a desert hill + an overlapped forested hill
I know that where it is it overlaps fishy town, but either way we are only going to whip the hell out of that city (+8
at pop 2 + 11 self sustaining tiles with lighthouse) we can whip since lvl 3 without any problem!, and that's why we shouldn't care about giving a few tiles.I'm complaining about the extra settler needed and the hammers not invested in military
It doesn't really matter the upkeep as far as we keep on constant warring with at least 2 mansas. and spying an allied one. captured gold + pillaged gold 30%-40% slide can sustain our empire for a while and to avoid falling too far behind our beloved mansas in tech, EBE Tactics... Espionage, Bully, Extortion 'em without mercy should be enough.
Unless someone else voices an opinion I will try to settle yellow, raze the northern barb city and have a settler on the way to rebuild it 1 south. We can decide about the west later as it will be sealed off from Mansas with purple dot.
@mlinneak - yea I plan on trading it around quite a bit
@mlinneak - yea I plan on trading it around quite a bit
cripp7
Playin' Bored
I'm ok with the dotmap, and your plan sounds pretty solid kossin. So go ahead and go!
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