Time for some bullying (or not)

[kossin]

Turn 0
-stopped a few workers current actions, planning some roads to yellow dot - it would be changed later

-renamed following cities as well as MM'd a bit to get improved tiles

-also changed Lolco to stables that will be whipped in 4 turns (faster than whipping library)
-cancelled exploring chariot's movement, we don't need more info on Orange Mansa right now.
-move worker to improve horses that got pillaged
-move warrior out of Lolco for fogbusting
-put research at 50% hoping 26 additional beakers would net us Alphabet the coming turn

Turn 1
-convert to Hinduism: orange Mansa goes to Pleased and get negative boni with every other Mansa

-warrior loses, Spear at 2.5/4 health, I put one turn into an axeman in Spear'D @ 7 so I can whip next turn if needed

-spear shows from the north so I road the copper instead and change Cow misser to Axeman for 2-pop whip

-move Cow misser warrior northeast to fogbust
-Blue Mansa has Currency so I trade HBR<->Alphabet+20 gold

-Black Mansa HBR<->Mathematics

-Yellow Mansa HBR<->IW+Archery

-Red Mansa HBR <->Polytheism+Masonry

-Peach Mansa HBR<->Sailing+Meditation I also OB with him and insta-gain 2 more commerce

-Horice workers move to pre-chop 3 forests (mine+2 that could be culturally challenged by Mansa)
-send back medic warrior east, we'll have enough troops west
-research set on Aesthetics
-Seeing Iron allows to re-dotmap. I'm even more in favor of my western dotmap while the east could add another city perhaps as Slibluhr suggested earlier

Turn 2
-our warrior wins at 1.6 health left so I cancel the Axeman in Spear'D
-I whip Cow misser's scientists and set the city to grow (due in 2 turns) where I'll add them back, also add a cottage and begin chopping a forest
-move warrior next to spearman and promote him to melee
-trade for Monotheism and Priesthood

-Turn 3
-our warrior defeats the spear - too bad for the Axe, he will be put to good use come his time. I send him to the barb city
-tech situation looks better now

-No trades this turn

Turn 4
-add back scientists to Cow misser, growth in 7
-whip Horice and Lolco

-I decide to disband an exploring warrior, saves upkeep and we have 2 chariots scouting anyway
-Peach Mansa moves a settler in - I hate that guy

Turn 5
-Peach settle right next to our Rice, we'll need some more culture here so I change to a Monastery and add a chop for insta-completion

-sentry warrior spots an Axe so re-route our Axe towards it

-whip Spear'D into a barracks
-Cow misser will finish Stable next Turn, HA queued

Turn 6
-OB with Blue Mansa as I found a trade route to his cities
-Black Mansa makes an arrogant demand so I flip him

Turn 7
-whip Lolco
-Make an arrogant Demand

It succeeds!

Turn 8
-Axe arrives in place and gets promoted to Melee

Turn 9
-barb Axe chickens and doesn't attack, I'll leave to the next player to decide to attack or wait another turn (I'd wait for the defensive bonus)
-cow misser set to grow this turn, it can stop or keep its scientists, we'll have to decide
-GS born, we can settle him, make an Academy or bulb Compass

-settler is in place to settle the yellow dot
-we have a HA ready to run around and 3 more coming soon (Queued in Lolco after the Barracks, already has half needed)
-I also made a few more 'friendly' requests but for some reason Peach Mansa is not too happy with us now

-Horice will get a border pop in 3 turns so the Rice should be safe

Info screenshots:

Spoiler :

Things to do:
Decide what to do with the GS. Bulbing would allow us to trade for Calendar+CoL and build the Sacrificial Altar.
Check that the 2 Mansa's without Math/HBR get Monarchy to trade for it
I neglected Lolco a bit this round in favor or chopping some things out. Send the 2 workers by Cow misser over there and farm the Bananas (unless we get Calendar, then we can make plantations on it and the Dye) It also needs a mine on the jungle hill
We may want to disband a few warriors to have less unit upkeep.
-Let Lolco grow so it can run 2 scientists

Anyway...

1. Slibluhr - UP!
2. cripp7 - On deck!
3. Gumbolt
4. mlinneak
5. Meerk
6. mjg5591
7. kossin - Just played

 

[mjg5591]

Nice set Kossin. It looks like we are building up an army. But is switching to OR in future viable for future city sites?

 

[cripp7]

OR would speed up those buildings. i'm going to be gone unitl sunday if my turn comes up before then i can do a swap.

 

[kossin]

I'm not sure if OR will do much beside the whip, I'll look into it and make an edit in a few. I did not revolt as the economy really isn't that strong and I didn't want to pay more upkeep.
Thanks for the heads up cripp7.

Edit: it would speed up the barracks in Lolco by 2 turns but cost 1 more per turn, maybe more when the new city is up. I don't think it's essential right now but it might be sometime later. Not convinced the next 10 turns would be helped by it unless we bulb Compass and get CoL+Calendar to build Sacrificial Altars.

Just remembered... make sure our power ratio to Peach Mansa stays under 1.00 or else he may be too scared to DoW. Adjusting will be needed as we might lose the Demographics view in 40 some turns otherwise.

 

[Meerk]

Looks like a good set. You got a lot of mileage out of trades. I am thrilled we have reached the point of bullying our neighbors.

 

[Slibluhr]

in 11hs I'll check the save (as soon as I get out of my job)

Let's decide what to do with our barb city and if I shall bully another mansa

Our economy stinks, we need cottage spam a bit, and before the war begins I want to settle fishy town so we can whip more.

I usually decide the future of my GP viewing the F1 screen, but as there are no screenies I can't say much about it.

 

[kossin]

@Slibluhr
No cities as any GPP as of now but Cow misser can keep running 2 of them. It would produce another GS in 33 turns which we can use to bulb Philosophy. Or we can wait for Lolco to run two of them in like 10ish turns.

 

[Slibluhr]

But in that screen I can see how many bakers they are producing and how good will it be to settle or build academy.

But I'd say that our move shall be to tech compass ourselves and then bulb pihlosophy with this boy, unless it takes many turns to do so, in which case it will be better to build academy or settle him, but I dont really know as I don't really know our tech-pace situation

 

[kossin]

Here goes... keep in mind I've severely modified my F1 screen so it may look wacky Just ask if you can't figure out a row. I've also included individual cities for tiles purpose. All screenshots at 100% research (good for 5 tuns atm)

Cow misser on Scientists...

Spoiler :

Cow misser on cottages

Spoiler :

Cow misser view

Spoiler :

Horice view

Spoiler :

Spear'D view

Spoiler :

Lolco view

Spoiler :

One thing that would fix the economy is Currency. It'll give us 8 (10) with new city) instantly whereas Sacrificial Altars will give us, atm, 4 , a bit more with the new city. I would almost be tempted to wait until Currency can be traded to bulb but it's probably smarter to just keep looking every turn to trade for it. (It's the same price as Compass so we should invest a minimum of into it)

Yet another option: build science everywhere and research Currency directly gives...

Spoiler :

6 turns or so. Do we go for it or wait for a trade?

 

[Slibluhr]

I'll try to grab it from blue mansa, even if i have to pay for it!

That said, the path ahead shows us bulbing compass and investing some bakers on currency, Right?

What's about production? Army, army and.. err... army?

I know that mansa is not going todeclare if we are too strong, btw I've never managed to be DOWed by mansa... new experience to me.

still open for discussion for another 5 hs...

 

[kossin]

Blue Mansa will not trade Currency after I demanded his per turn.
It's either we tech and get it in 6 turns or hope another Mansa techs it so we can trade for it.

At Furious, even Mansa will DoW us. He might even bribe in another MM!. It's just a question of not growing too strong. That's why I suggest staying below 1.00 power ratio with him. I don't remember the threshold but it's not very high above that. Once he DoW, we can stay at war for as long as we want... MM never makes that many units so we can whip several and take him out if needed. With Sacrificial Altars, we can whip up an army in no time given our land.

Bulbing seems like the logical choice as it nabs us CoL and Calendar. We can improve Dyes and Bananas as well as the Spice when it comes to it.

I vote for going down the Aesthetics line after having put 1 turn of research in Currency (set the slider so we don't lose , just so it can be traded once it becomes available). We can trade it for Currency if worst comes to worst after a bit of research into it.

Odds are after we trade Compass, one Mansa will use it to trade for Currency with Blue Mansa so Aesthetics can be traded for it with a bit more investment in Currency afterwards. Anyway, keep an eye on the tech screen every turn in case the 'backward' ones get a tech we want.

After Aesthetics I'm not sure but Literature to open up HE could be nice. Given that we'll have CoL, Philo bulb will already be open but the question is will a MM already have gotten it and shared it around?

Production: enough units to take the barb cities. raze the north one once we have a settler ready and decide if we keep/raze west. I vote for raze but that's just me Another worker per new city won't hurt either.

Edit: found the post by DanF
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84

MM will NOT attack us if our power ratio goes above 1.00 so make sure we don't cross that line. (Switch EP weight so we get 2 on him and whatever on someone else)

Edit2: To further increase DoW odds, we have to stay below 0.90 power ratio

 

[mjg5591]

I agree about razing west barb city.

I would go Lit after aesthetics. If we are planning war alot, HE would be nice.

 

[Meerk]

I looked at the DanF post mentioned by Kossin a bit. I had not previously realized just how unlikely Mansa is to declare on us. It looks like on a given turn, an annoyed Mansa has about a 3/400 chance to DOW (assuming that they have no vassals, we aren't currently at war, and our power < theirs).

Seems like we need to bully multiple of them if we are hoping someone will DOW.

 

[kossin]

Yes but a MM not bordering us will only declare if our power is 0.50 compared to his so that's not very likely. I don't think we should bully too many of them, 2 is a good start for now. We can always bully more later.

 

[Slibluhr]

So i'll piss two of 'em until they DOW us or Bluey give us Currency... (as the second is impossible...)

I'm playing... Played!

I'll post the report in no time!

 

[Slibluhr]

Well, Barb city razed, Compass, CoL, Curr, Calendary, Metal Casting in the bag, extra worker without losing in growth... nice turn in my opinion

100 - 375 BC
First of all Compass bulbed and Frosty settled.

Spoiler :

MMed a bit all around the nation, and whipped in Cow-misser (got a 1-turn worker for doing so)

101 - 350 BC
After checking what to do with our workers I think that after all we needed more farms in some places so started with them, but without stopping with a slow but persistent pace.

The northern barb is a chicken.

102 - 325 BC
After another coward tactic of the barb I lost the patience and send our axeman to clean the forest from that bastard...

Spoiler :

Victory! (phew!)

Spoiler :

YAY! After a hard bargain, Yelly taught us CoL!, so Cow-misser started with his S. Altar.

106 - 225 BC
This rounds will be the one who gives the round it's title

Spoiler :

I've got Currency, Calendar, MC and some gold

108 - 175 BC
Mission: Barb City

Result: [RAZED!]

I've stopped at turn 109 after moving some workers.

Actual situation:
Far West:

Spoiler :

Aztec Lands:

Spoiler :

Free Lands:

Spoiler :

Peach Frontier:

Spoiler :

Who's angry with Monty?

Spoiler :

Tactical Position of our troops:

Spoiler :

Tactical known positions of Peachy:

Spoiler :

I'd say that we need a stronger army...

Btw, the next can whip right now in Lolco and Horice to get the maximun benefit of the surplus

White dots are uncertain cities, blue is the one Kossin said

I've razed barbtown for two reasons: two of the three overapped tiles between Barbaria and Capetown aren't tundra forest as they seemed, they are grassland forest... or what's the same, bonus to our primery whipping place =)

 

[kossin]

Good set

Some comments:

-great name for the city
-we can get 6gpt by trading ivory to Red Mansa, copper and cows to others. Just remember to hook up Lolco's cow and Horice's rice for - there are 2 workers paired next to cow misser with one having a movement left. Separate them and use that one to hook the cows
-we can't make much more units before going over Peach's power. Just send an axe and add a spear to Horice while deleting the warrior
-revolting to OR to whip forges can be useful now
-we can run 2 scientists in Lolco
-working several unimproved tiles rather than improved ones. Cities can always be stagnated to avoid unhappiness, or you can queue a worker/settler
-putting research on 100% gets us Aesthetics in 4 turns with these modifications
-Horice could work 2 matured cottages
-we don't really need more units right now, actually deleting a few could help (exploring ones aren't that useful, we don't need 2 for certain). Warrior next to Frosty can move in the city. The one next to cow misser disbanded.
-I'd build a Forge in cow misser and then build wealth -> better than a Market
-I'm a bit puzzled by the worker south of Horice, what's he doing there? there's a riverside grass jungle that's better in any case

We need a plan to keep up in tech since Philosophy is going to be spread around, too late for a bulb.
In the case that no MM will have the guts to DoW us, we should start putting up the other cities so getting a settler or 2 out at some point could be good.

We have to start working some cottages quite soon in Cow misser, we're losing in on 1AD. Other option is to run 2 scientists in every city but that'll only get us so far.

After Aesthetics I'd put the slider back to 0% to see where they start teching so we can make a better decision. Since we are spiritual, it could be a good idea to get out a few fast GSs to bulb down the Liberalism line. But we need to get CS for that... how to trade for it is the question though.

I'll try to think of something else in the meantime because 2 MMs are starting to pull away now.

1. Slibluhr - Just played
2. cripp7 - (swap until Sunday)
3. Gumbolt - UP!
4. mlinneak - On deck!
5. Meerk
6. mjg5591
7. kossin

 

[Slibluhr]

The wirker at cow-misser is building a cottage, there are 2 workers at horice to fix that

 

[kossin]

The wirker at cow-misser is building a cottage, there are 2 workers at horice to fix that

I meant this guy:

If you don't ungroup them this turn, we lose a worker turn.

Edit: we could consider Espionage to nab technologies away from Peach Mansa. Since we'll want to have Sacrificial altars everywhere, every city can run 1 spy. Moreover, Kukiya is really close to our Capital so it will not cost a fortune and Horice's next border pop will dump culture into the city, making it even cheaper to steal. We don't get the Holy city Religion discount but we can spread Hinduism there.
I would still finish Aesthetics first so that a quick army can be built. With the above in mind, I would make the HE in Cow misser as it can get 24 base and would be able to build a unit every turn or so.

Stationary Spy: -10% per turn, up to -50%
Trade Route with Target City: -20%
Own State Religion is Present in Target City and You Own that Holy City: -25%
Own State Religion is Present in Target City and Target is a Different Religion: -15%
Distance Penalty: varies, but typically +10% to +30%

We're looking at potentially 60ish% price techs.

 

[Gumbolt]

Been a busy week and I suddenly have 2 games to do rounds on!!

Will have a look tomorrow if thats okay. I also need to look at Kossin and others comments. So much to do and I just keep falling asleep!. How will i get anything done.