Tips before moving to monarch?

Err... I think I have overextended myself on this one... Raliuven, I think I might have build the UN or the spaceship. I'm never dead set on any VC when I begin but by 10AD, I normally decide what VC to go for. I was hoping for domination on this one, but the others will do just fine. I agree that invade is more fun at times, but it can be really irritating as well! At least if one invades too soon and that's what I think I've done. So here's the deal:

Germany and Russia went to war. Germany asked to me ally and I said yes because Russia had settled a city in my continent earlier, and I want my continent all blue and to myself. I captured that city and didn't do much after. G and R then signed a peace treaty. I checked the power in the info screen and saw that Germany had like 1/5 my strength. Alright, "let's have it", I thought and declared on the germans. Somehow, I got Russia to join me. I first landed a couple of knights and an cavalry army on a german island and razed two cities. I planned to build new cities on the spots after. I then landed 3 knights and a musketman on their main shore and razed Bremen. My guys stood tall and managed to hold back the first rush of soldiers. Seems they mainly have pikes, musketmen, longbowmen and a few knights. I had to wait a turn for my next shipment of soldiers to arrive, 8 cavalries. They landed on the same spot as the previous. Suddenly, the germans came and in one turn they took out all 16 of my soldiers. And don't even know what Catherine is up to, she has not lifted a finger... I guess I went to war too soon with too few units and too little planning... I thought it was gonna be easy because they had so little power in the statistics, but Bismarck can be clever... So I think I will try to make friends and trade with everyone and go for space or diplo. I don't think the others will attack me, because I have twice the power of both China and Russia and my empire is quite big(famous last words). vmxa, I'm ahead in tech, at least I think. You see it by looking in the trade screen, right? If I can trade them 5 techs and they can trade me 1, I'm four up right? I have only one army atm allthough I have built the MA in my capital and can build armies. I have one army the rest is individual cavalries and musketmen.

I must say however, that playing Civ on a standard map as I do now, is totally different thing than playing on small or tiny. And I really enjoy it! :)
 
If you've got the tech lead you are pretty much a lock for the space ship - so long as you have all the needed resources or can trade for them.

RE: Diplo - if there are only 4 civs left you'll need to play the diplo well. You can use Germany as your punching bag when it comes to the vote (if they survive). If you are not planning to invade, I'd dogpile Germany. Let Germany die and that leaves you and 2 other civs. When the vote is coming up, DOW on the civ that will be your rival. Depending on size, it might make sense to DOW early and make sure to ally with the remaining civ so it is 2-to-1 in your favor. Make sure your ally is the smaller Civ so that your ally is not your rival for the vote. Gift your ally some techs, lux, gold, etc. leading up to the vote then take your win to the bank.

Just be careful with the set up. You need to make sure you are allied to the civ that will not be your rival - if they suddenly start overrunning the other civ or qualify for the vote themselves, this could backfire on you. It is odd but you'll actually want to ally with the probable loser. You'll also need to make sure that your ally civ can be turned to polite or gracious with some gifts, alliances and RoP agreements.

Actually, in either scenario I would probably kill off Germany and let them be absorbed - but only if you know you can keep the tech lead vs. the AI. The remaining civs will make better trading partners with more land and you can grab a quicker space victory by tech trading for other techs, luxuries, needed resources and just plain money (lump sum or gold per turn).

With all that said, learning to plan and execute a major invasion is an important skill to master. vmxa is the laster at warfare, so I'd listen to him. I'm only making a suggestion as to alternate methods of winning. (though don't tell Darksi I even mentioned the whole UN thing . . .) :mischief:
 
AnthonyIII said:
I first landed a couple of knights and an cavalry army on a german island and razed two cities. I planned to build new cities on the spots after. I then landed 3 knights and a musketman on their main shore and razed Bremen. My guys stood tall and managed to hold back the first rush of soldiers. Seems they mainly have pikes, musketmen, longbowmen and a few knights. I had to wait a turn for my next shipment of soldiers to arrive, 8 cavalries.
Click to expand...

Why on earth are you fielding Muskets and Knights? You are in the modern age, IIRC.

You should have Infantry, or even Mech. Infantry as defenders.

Attackers are more tricky as there is a gap in the upgrade path. But you should have at least Cavalry for easier targets. For heavier targets - expect at least Riflemen as AI defenders - there are several options:
(1a) Fewer, but good, up-to-date attackers. Tanks, Modern Armour, Cav-Armies. Without bombardment by artillery and/or Bombers. Casualties will be light to medium.
(1b) Fewer, but good, up-to-date attackers. Tanks, Modern Armour, Cav-Armies. With bombardment by artillery and/or Bombers. You'll suffer next to no casualties.
(2a) Lots of less good attackers. Loose Cavalries or Infantry. Without bombardment by artillery and/or Bombers. Expect heavy casualties.
(2b) Lots of less good attackers. Loose Cavalries or Infantry. With bombardment by artillery and/or Bombers. Light to medium casualties.​
In an overseas invasion, where transportation space is limited, options (1b), (2a), (2b) are almost automatically out leaving you with (1a).


But the first priority is establishing a foothold and holding it. Which means top defenders, settler(s) and armies (to block and make room). And only then you can think about how to attack further.
 
Railuven, I decided to for for diplomatic and I kept all the others alive. They all declared war on me at some point leading up to my vicotry, but the attacks had no chance against my huge army. They all sued for peace quite soon. I then started to focus on research and entered the modern age and built the UN. I did what you said and got Germany and China to be polite towards me the round before the election! :) Good tips - they voted for me and I managed a diplomatic victory in 1942. If I had played on and not held votes I could expect a cultural victory in 1970, civassist told me. And yeah, vmxa has posted some great tips on warfare here which I will read closely. Haha, I won't tell! :D

Lord Emsworth, sorry to have misled you - I worte modern age earlier, but I meant the Industrial age. Sorry 'bout that! :) When I started to get riflemen and tanks I had decided not to attack anyone. Anyway, I think I will play the save again trying to go for conquest and use your and vmxa tips, because I really should try to master major invasions for Emperor difficulty.

I will then use transport and escort 6 and 6, right? Is there any point you think it's not worth to attack? Is there like a rule of thumb that says, "well, they now have tanks and merch infantery, it's not worth it"? Or is it just of determination and the number of you oen forces? The thing is, playing continents - all those enemy cities can be a bit overwhelming, and it takes a LOT of time to plan, get your forces together and then attack. I would think late medieval is best to take out a lot of opponents? If they are backwards and only have pikes for example and you have cavalry, it's a bit of fun! ;) What do you think guys? Do you ever give up an invasion plan and go for other VCs? And if you do, why?
 
Congrats! :goodjob:

Well, as you improve your play you will find that you are moving at the front of the pack (way at the front) in respects to techs. Even at Deity the AI can choke sometimes. This is important because you will often be invading a country protected by pikes and muskets when you have cavalry and rifles and infantry (if the AI is really luck) when you have tanks. With superiority like that, it doesn't matter how big the enemy civ has grown. Which isn't to say you should completely ignore tactics.

I've never played Sid, so I can't say if there anything too big. I'd wager it is pretty hard to find the AI civ that vmxa would run away from though. :) I think the answer is definately no. But there may be such a thing as 'too big for my current level of play', which is a different matter. Of course there is nothing wrong with trying and learning, even if you ultimately lose.

The main idea is to land so many troops that the AI cannot overwhelm them. Use armies to block advances. If I have enough armies I will land all of the units in a stack and them move the armies out so that there is NO WAY the AI can attack my landing force. Make my city and bulid the walls and barracks while the AI mills around trying to figure out how to get through these movable walls. When I am ready - possibly already having landed a 2nd wave of reinforcements, open a path to the city. My offensive units are outside the city in stacks that are covered by armies. I usually put my artillery outside the city though defensive bombardment may be a good reason to leave some in the city. All defensive units remain in the city, prepared to soak up the incoming attack. A heavy stack of artillery will make short work of the incoming AI as it mills around. Wounded units will try to retreat and fast movers can take them out so long as they can do so and return to the cover of the armies or city. Other AI units will impale themselves on the waiting, fortified, walled city's (hopefully on a hill and across a river) defenders. :D You can also use artillery to pillage surrounding tiles to slow the enemy and funnel them in a way that is advantagous to your invasion. Just rememeber, when it is time to move out and begin the conquest, you'll have to travel over the same terrain to break out.

If rails are involved, once the flood weakens, the AI is gassed. If no rails, it can be a little tricker - but the landing is also easier because the AI cannot mass its units (and does not mass its units) - they all arrive piecemeal and can be destroyed in detail.

I also use ship chains to keep the reinforcements coming as quick as they are produced on the mainland.
 
I have a Japan save lying around, tiny continents with Germany/Spain sharing the second continent. This will be perfect for testing your strategy and improving my warfare. You tips are very good and though it seems simple, it still can be hard for a new player like me! My most common mistakes on continents have been: starting war too soon, landing only offensive units - which then has made me adapt a habit of only razing captured cities because I can't defend them. Also my offensive units are getting killed all the time after I capture 2 or 3 cities. I have never any problem winning conquest/domination on Pangea, but continents seem much more time consuming and needs more planning. I'll play my old save and this time I'm set on conquest! Muhahaha. You guys are very helpful, helping me to improve! Even though I've learned a lot from the War Academy it's also good to talk about the game, like here! :D About pillaging, I think I've read that to pillage will make them much more angry with you and if you're gonna be friends later, don't pillage? Is that true? I pillage sometimes, mostly their iron and horses.
 
In that game invasion could not be delayed as they were in the modern age and already had tanks and mechs. They were around 60-65 turns from a culture win. To wait was to lose. They had bombers and Tupac had only infantry and was around 6 techs from flight.

It was a very tricky task, but I had the advantage of having played scores of Sid games and knew what to expect. It just took care. The 60 turns was not a factor as I only razed their towns and they went from about 484cpt to lower and lower output and the time elongated, till they were dead.

They were no where near the power of some I have invaded, where they had 1800-2000 units. They were more like 500 or maybe 600.

Anyway congrats on your victory.
 
vmxa, say whaat?? 500-600 units?? That's crazy. How long or at what level do you have to play to experience that? In my game from last nite I had 490 units, way more than I really could pay for... And even then I was much more powerful than the rest. I've never encountered such forces, must be a joy to beat such numbers! :) But surely it must take a long time? Did you take out their entire civilization or just the most important cities to stop them from winning culturally? Very, very good job! :D

Aabraxan, thanks mate! :goodjob:
 
AnthonyIII said:
vmxa, say whaat?? 500-600 units?? That's crazy. How long or at what level do you have to play to experience that? In my game from last nite I had 490 units, way more than I really could pay for... And even then I was much more powerful than the rest. I've never encountered such forces, must be a joy to beat such numbers! :) But surely it must take a long time? Did you take out their entire civilization or just the most important cities to stop them from winning culturally? Very, very good job! :D

Aabraxan, thanks mate! :goodjob:
Click to expand...

He was talking about sid I think. At the highest levels the AI gets huge armies like that :crazyeye:. it does sometimes take a few ages to accumulate all those units, but they have hordes and hordes because of the production bonus. Hopefully before long you will be on your way to beating sid :goodjob:.
 
When I have 500+ Modern Armors plus Artillery, then wars usually last 1 or 2 turns, during which I capture 20-30 cities, but one turn takes 4-5 hours. But that was in Vanilla though, where you cannot move units in stacks. In C3C I didn't yet play on huge maps.
 
AnthonyIII said:
vmxa, say whaat?? 500-600 units?? That's crazy. How long or at what level do you have to play to experience that? . . . .
Click to expand...
Somewhere around here, vmxa posted a screenshot in which the AI had something like 941 infantry . . . That was just the infantry. I don't recall what else they had. My suggestion: listen closely to his advice on warmongering.
 
Aha, yes, on Sid. That makes sense. I doubt I will ever beat Sid, but I will slowly make my way towards emperor and if I beat deity I shall be very happy! :goodjob: You play on Sid as well, creamcheese? :) nbd, that's some mighty big wars! 4-5 hours for a turn, I think my old computer would have crashed! ;) Is that on the biggest maps? I've never really enjoyed playing the Industrial og Modern Age, but this has changed the last weeks. I now find the wars in theese era much more interesting and fun than before.
I'd like to see that screenshot! I'll look around or maybe if you read this you tell me, vmxa? And yes, I've already started to take notes of what he's writing. You've already helped me a lot, vmxa! :D
 
Another 'monster army' supporter is that at higher levels, the AI is allowed extra unit support - basically they don't need to pay for some (a lot) of their units.

Monarch: AI Cost Factor: .9; 2 free defensive and 1 offensive units for AI at start of game; 4 extra units supported (and 1 per city); max 4 turn anarchy; 2 free citizens content for human; attack bonus of 100% vs. barbs;

Emperor: AI Cost Factor: .8; 4 free defensive and 1 offensive units for AI; 8 extra units supported (and 2 per city); max 3 turn anarchy; 1 free citizen content for human; attack bonus of 50% vs. barbs;

Demigod (Deity in Vanilla and Play the World): AI Cost Factor: .7; 6 free defensive and 3 offensive units for AI; 12 extra unit supported (and 3 per city); max 2 turn anarchy; 1 free citizen content for human; attack bonus of 25% vs. barbs;

Deity (in Conquests): AI Cost Factor: .6; 8 free defensive and 4 offensive units for AI; 16 extra units supported (and 4 per city); 1 free citizen content for human; attack bonus of 0% vs. barbs;

Sid: AI Cost Factor: .4; 12 free defensive and 6 offensive units; 24 extra units supported (and 8 per city); 1 free citizen content for human; attack bonus of 0% vs. barbs;

So if an Sid AI on a huge map has only 40 cities, they can support 344 units for free on top of anything allowed by their government. Combine that with the production bonus and the AI can build a huge army without crippling their economy.
 
Wow. That is a lot of units for free. So I take it from demigod and above you're at war 80-90% of the time? They have to use those units, I guess? And does that mean it's best to have your first shot at any higher difficulty on tiny maps? Because then the AI will have fewer cities and therefor fewer free units?
 
You try not to get into wars at DG or better in the AA, they tend to kill you. Aabraxan that was my favorite screen shot. I love it, I had 313 modern armor and the advisor said compared to them we are weak. That is scary.

One of the plays I saw years ago was a DG game, where the human got a DoW and they gifted the town under threat to a far off nation. That bought enough time to get peace and they could take the town back later as the far off nation would give peace by the time it troops arrived.

I don't think that would be a sure thing now as patches made insta peace harder to get.
 
AnthonyIII said:
Aha, yes, on Sid. That makes sense. I doubt I will ever beat Sid, but I will slowly make my way towards emperor and if I beat deity I shall be very happy! :goodjob: You play on Sid as well, creamcheese? :)
Click to expand...

No, lol, I usually play on demigod, or emperor if I am feeling lazy. I have a couple of deity wins under my belt and am thinking of trying sid soon.

vmxa said:
You try not to get into wars at DG or better in the AA, they tend to kill you. Aabraxan that was my favorite screen shot. I love it, I had 313 modern armor and the advisor said compared to them we are weak. That is scary.
Click to expand...

Do you know where the shot is? I'd love to see it. :eek:
 
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