TNT Files - Term 5

[fe3333au]

This is where the term 5 records concerning TNT live ...

Outstanding is what we want to trade for Construction ... our options are ...

>Map Making
>Code of Laws
>Literature
>Map Making
>Polytheism


What are your thoughts?

 

[Kentharu]

Dear MIA,

We are glad to hear you would be willing to teach us of the many gods and the storing of and reading of books, in exchange for the secrets of Construction. However, before we finalize the deal, we have but one condition. We kindly ask of you to not trade these secrets to the Galls or the Iroqi. We in turn will forswear not to trade to the Galls or Iroqi. This tech trading program would be between our two nations only. If you would accept this one condition, we will gladly sign any document for the trade.

Also, we would like to discuss more long range trades in the tech trading program. In general, what technologies would be of use to your people? What would you be willing to trade for them? Together we could keep technologies out of the hands of KISS and the Doughnuts, and keep our nations atop the technology scoreboard...

Lastly, could you please for now on send any future diplomatic correspondence to me, along with our Grand Vizier donsig. By sending it to both of us, you ensure a quicker reply. This would be greatly appreciated.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

horay for diplomacy

 

[General_W]

Way to go TNT!!
(I keep saying it... our warm relationship with these losers is going to pay off big time!)

Thank goodness construction isn't part of our deal with KISS.

I'm all for making this trade and advancing to the middle ages without KISS. KISS wants to be free of our deal? Fine. Have it your way.

We should probably avoid completing this deal with TNT until we've got Republic in the bag - and heard KISS's response on the 20 turns of peace.
(But really - knowing we can trade with TNT without them trading with KISS allows us to walk away from the Republic deal if necessary - and beat KISS to the MA by quite a spread)

 

[Chamnix]

Well, we could probably swear not to trade Construction to KISS or Donuts, but I'm not sure if they are asking for just that or asking us to forswear any trades with KISS or Donuts. I think we really want Monarchy if we can get it within 15 or so turns, and our only hope for that is Donuts.

A literal reading of their letter seems to say MIA will not trade Construction to the other civs, and TNT will not trade at all, and I'm sure that's not what they meant. I suspect that if we ask for clarification, then they will try for no trading, so I suggest we don't ask.

We should send them a parchment that says we will provide Literature and Polytheism, and they will trade Construction. MIA agrees not to trade Construction to KISS or Donuts (bye-bye Green Alliance). Can we ask TNT just not to trade Construction to KISS without raising suspicions that we will be trading other techs to Donuts? That's the only thing we really care about.

I think we need to word this carefully to enable us to trade other techs to Donuts for Monarchy and keep TNT from trading Construction to KISS without raising suspicions that we are planning a trade with Donuts, but we also want to send it fairly soon to get their official "Vizeer" to sign it.

 

[peter grimes]

Here are a few attempts at language. I'm not really happy with any single one, but I think that number 1 is the most concise. If we get a stable wording I can prep a scroll for Fe to approve and send.

1. MIA will provide Literature and Polytheism to TNT, who will in exchange provide Construction, which may not be traded to any other team.

2. MIA and TNT will trade Construction and Literature and Polytheism amongst eachother, but not with any other team.

3. TNT and MIA will trade Construction and Literature and Polytheism, but only with eachother. This is binding until the Middle Ages.

 

[fe3333au]

How about this .. to be extended and fluffied after we finalize the KISS scenario

Dear greekguy

We agree to your caveat on the deal for Construction to not trade it on to either KISS or D-Nuts. When will it be ready as we are eager to build big stone things

Any war news ... how goes the good fight?

Yours sincerely in peace and ... blah blah etc

 

[Chamnix]

That is definitely what we want. We could send them an official parchment now - I think we already agree on the terms so let's get it executed. The official one should also somehow specify that TNT will not trade Construction to KISS.

 

[fe3333au]

I have sent this to TNT mailbox

Trade

Can you tell us when you will have Construction ready for trade?

How goes the war?

What government will TNT be researching towards? ... we may be able to assist.

 

[Chamnix]

We are currently trading Lit and Poly to KISS - do you think TNT will understand that?

 

[fe3333au]

We have already done it this turn yes?

So the KISS deal has already happened ... no problem

 

[Chamnix]

Yes - I just sent it. I guess your point is that we will not trade any of them after the deal is executed, but I thought we might try to be a little less devious with TNT to build goodwill. It should be OK though.

 

[peter grimes]

I don't think the parchment should be sent. It is intentionally misleading TNT into believing that we will not trade Poly or Lit to KISS. We cannot afford to be caught in even the appearance of misleading.

Let's not make another mistake like we did with KISS. We MUST watch our words more carefully!

EDIT: I guess I spoke too late

 

[fe3333au]

sorry already sent ... and as the KISS deal was already agreed to prior to this turn then there is no problem.

 

[Chamnix]

I understand the KISS deal was agreed previously, and we are not breaking our word to TNT, but I agree with peter grimes that misleading can be as hazardous long term as breaking our word.

The question is, do we want to tell TNT right now and blame an overzealous Foreign Minister (no offense, Feaurius) for sending an official parchment without the team seeing it first, or do we roll with it? Maybe because Feaurius was away, he didn't realize we had a KISS deal? Or he didn't realize Lit and Poly were included? Maybe we be completely honest and say Feaurius was misleading, but the rest of the team said, no, we are honest - let's revise it immediately? We obviously don't want to hang Feaurius out there, but I don't know how best to handle it without having to deal with (justifiable) TNT anger later.

 

[peter grimes]

We tell the Truth: Feaurius had been absent for a few days, and didn't realize that we'd already talked to KISS about a deal... Therefore the parchment is not accurate.

We would be happy to send a revised parchment.

Maybe send an email to TNT alerting them?

 

[fe3333au]

I can't see the problem ... seriously ...

1. TNT Document sent after deal with KISS
2. Document says that there will be no future agreements to trade these particular technologies ... it is made concrete when signed or written.
3. When written there was no further trading of these techs.
4. TNT are primarily interested in us not trading Construction to the other teams ... which has been discussed in the thread and agreed to.
5. A sence of urgency has been prevalent to concrete and for the FM to stop his AWOL RL behaviour

 

[Chamnix]

@peter grimes - but what would the revised parchment say? It becomes painfully obvious what we are doing regardless. I don't think a revised parchment is sufficient - we would have to explain exactly what we did/are doing.

@fe3333au - look at it from TNT's point of view. What we are doing is not strictly dishonest, but I think it would be construed as sleazy and underhanded to trade techs immediately before a promise not to trade them in the future. I will feel somewhat better about it if TNT at least gets the save first so they see KISS has received those techs before they sign... although, quite honestly, I have been so unimpressed with TNT, they might not be too good at checking tech prices to figure out how many civs have what, and they certainly shouldn't be able to tell what Donuts/KISS each have. Maybe we can get away with it...

 

[General_W]

It does make me a little nervous that we're going around trying to convince everyone that KISS is slippery, dangerous, and can't be trusted… and then behaving in a slippery manner ourselves.
Uniting the world against KISS seems more important that getting a short-term good deal with TNT to me. I'd rather pay a steeper price for construction, and have TNT love us and be cold to KISS.

But it's not my call! (happily!)

 

[peter grimes]

I think we could, rather than revise the parchment, let TNT know that we had already been bound into a trade (that we wish we hadn't been bound to) when the parchement was sent. TNT should know that we regret the impression they may get from teh timing: we are not trying to be slippery, we just failed to properly word the parchment.

 

[Chamnix]

Although I am changing the subject here, I had another thought... if we don't get Feudalism as our free MA tech, we could consider making a deal with TNT - we give them Map Making and Code of Laws, they give us their free MA tech. If they get the same tech we got, then they give us the first MA tech they research.

Downsides - it requires us to be very trusting since we have to give with accept before they can give anything. If we get the same MA tech, it may be a while before they can research anything to give us to close the trade.

Just thought I'd throw it out there, and see what people think...