To cut down forests or not to cut down forests?

[Canuck Bill]

Interesting to see the varying points of view. Love the way Civ has brought more strategy into the game. The pros and cons of each. More balanced.

One negative I believe is the inability to re-forest. I know forests will spread into non-improved tiles but what about creating a worker action after a required tech is researched. Being from B.C. in Canada I have seen forests where they were once clear cut. Sadly though I see more clear cuts of where there used to be forests. Anyways I would really like to see this added though I believe it should take many turns to re-forest and maybe make it so you have to wait a certain amount of years after the worker completes the action as using a stack of workers to create a forest in a turn or two would be too easy. It would be cool to watch them grow over a few turns. Just my two cents.

 

[Shillen]

It's misleading because a forest with lumbermill and railroad is just as much production and more food (without state property) than a workshop. You make it out like there's absolutely no reason to ever have a lumbermill. And I do put windmills on my hills in production cities if the city could not work that hill without the +1 food which is actually a fairly common occurrence.

 

[weimingshi]

Unless you have serious health problems in your cities and needs to adopt environmentalist civic to get a health boost, in this case lumbermill is worth it. In any other case, lumbermill is virtually worthless.

 

[Padmewan]

As I've noted in another thread, if you're expansionist you basically start the game as if every city has 5 bonus forests... I don't think that's an accident -- expansionists can mow down 5 forests, get the early hammer boost, and still be on even footing with competitors in the health arena.

 

[anton_z1]

Lumbermill = 1 food + 4 production on a plain. (with railroad). It is the same as a mine.

 

[tempuraki]

As for forest v workshop, if you have a large food surplus this can become worthwhile with Guilds, when workshops are +2 prod, one more than a forest. As I said in my edit, at replaceable parts a mined hill = workshop and windmill hill = lumbermill/forest (in terms of food and prod). At the start of the game you would improve your unforested tiles but there are few occasions when you would have a lumbermilled forest after replaceable parts. How many times do you put windmills on your hills in a city where you are maximising production?

I am a fan of workshops, since I am also a fan of state property. with state property there's no food panelty on the workshops, and with max upgrade a workshop is +3 prod, the same as lumbermill, and you don't need to build railroad over it (therefore don't need to have coal).

That being said, I still try not to chop too much in the beginning, only enough to keep up and maybe get a slight lead. That way I can have the forests regrow, and also have some leftovers to rush a later wonder. In one game someone researched Divine Right ahead of me by at least 10 turns, but i was able to complete the Versailles the very next turn after I got Divine Right by saving my great engineer until then and having 4 groups of workers chopping down the 4 remaining forests around that city. Ok, I was a bit lucky too, the chops netted me +112, +112, +112, and +71, but it would have been impossible without having the forests around.

As for windmills and mines, I usually still mine the hill even if I will turn it into a windmill later, just for that slight chance of hitting gold or gem or other resources, then convert it back to windmill later. Yeah that's also why I play the lottery...

 

[Allanon]

If you don't need to chop down a forest then its better to leave it because forest will grow into unimproved squares. All of which can be chopped down when for quick production (especially with improvements that are double for having the right resource) The forest can also expand outside your city limits and those can be chopped down as well. There is also the improved health. Also tundra squares can not improved so a tundra/forest is better than a plain tundra.

 

[Allanon]

You also get an additional plus 1 production if you put a railroad through it.

 

[vyapti]

In my capital, I chop as soon as I can so I can spam 2-3 settlers. I then cottage wherever possible. My capital then becomes a center for science/finance. Everywhere else, I wait for mills, unless I need the terrain for something else.