(To Thal) Why should the vanguard unit line upgrade to a ranged gatling gun?

[ExpiredReign]

Whilst looking through the code in preparation of the mod-mod, I noticed something odd in the vanilla code that carries over into CEP that has a bearing on these units.

All the ranged units, Archer, Crossbow etc., all the way up to Gatling Guns have their DefaultUnitAI set as UNITAI_RANGED. Once the upgrade to Machine Guns & Bazooka is made this gets changed to UNITAI_DEFENSE, the same as Infantry type units. This may have a bearing on the numbers of units the AI have been making instead of units that can actually take cities. Not sure exactly, just thought I'd mention it.

Should this be changed?

 

[mystikx21]

"It would promote unit diversity in earlier eras" - is medic the only reason to build a spear/pike unit right now? I should think that having a counter unit to protect archers/siege against horses and a relative short list of available iron/horses would be enough in most games to have need of them. They should also be available sooner than their sword-based equals. Medic promotions are also not needed on very many units to keep an advance going. That doesn't really promote unit diversity to have a few units in this role.

The main reason I would submit medic as needed to the regular infantry units is that I would propose just getting rid of the vanguard units as they're currently set up. There's no real reason to treat them differently as a unit class versus having some statistical variation that makes them more suited to a particular counter-defence role (but still capable of other roles).

 

[Hreat]

"It would promote unit diversity in earlier eras" - is medic the only reason to build a spear/pike unit right now?

Well, that or iron scarcity. The anti-cavalry promotion isn't strong enough to make them especially effective even in an anti-cavalry role due to the unit's lower base strength. Medic is the reason to make a spear/pike instead of a swordsman.

The main reason I would submit medic as needed to the regular infantry units is that I would propose just getting rid of the vanguard units as they're currently set up.

That's a much bigger change than simply editing the upgrade path, with very wide ranging ripple effects through UUs, UAs, unit balance... It's an entirely different topic:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=502565&page=13

 

[mystikx21]

I'd agree it's a wider change. I'm not sure it's warranted to keep the existing vanguard. If the anti-cavalry/defence role is too weak, we can adjust the unit balance. That may be necessary anyway if medics are the only reason to build them.

I'd settle for fixing the upgrade paths for starters though.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Question regarding the 'scout' units, ie scout & Shoshone Pathfinder.

Do we want them to have access to the regular 'infantry' type promotions and give them extra promotions such as 'Scouting'? Or just make like weaker infantry?

Personally I would like to make the 'scout' units have a wider range of promos than your regular 'infantry'. This would mean in addition to your regular choices such as Drill & Shock, you could 'specialize' that unit as a recon unit. However upon upgrade they would lack the experience a spearman would have gained by that time along with those melee type promos. I guess this is where 'promos lost on upgrade' come in, not sure how those work just at the moment.