To wipe out Siam or not?

DeeBo

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
52
Playing as Persia. Difficutly is King and map is Pangea. He only had 4 cities and I took all but his smallest. Should I go ahead and finish him or just leave him with this 7 pop city? Is there a diplomatic penalty if I wipe out a civ? That's my biggest concern. I'm probably going to go for a domination victory and right now my biggest threat is Germany.

W1Rtf.jpg
 
Take it. Yes, huge diplo hit, so have defensive troops stationed in case the AI decide to pick fights with you. But you're going for Domination, so there's no real reason not to. Though--an alternative plan would be to leave the city behind, let the AI make more cities (and take them as they are being built).
 
I don't think I could resist killing that Mongolian settler above Pasargade.
 
I don't think I could resist killing that Mongolian settler above Pasargade.

lol yea I don't know WTH Gengis thinks he's doing. He kept trying to war with everyone but lost every time so now he's way behind. I just noticed he threw down 3 cities below Maya nowhere near the rest of his empire. I guess that's how he thinks he's gonna come back?
 
If Gengis is not a threat to you, how about trying to bribe him into DoW'ing Siam and see if he can take the city? That will make him take the diplomatic hit, and if he's not too strong anyway, it probably won't be a problem for you to have him sit on that puppet city for a while, at least until you decide to DoW him.

As it is now prior to patch, AI never anexes puppeted cities after capturing them and therefore can't build proper defences in them, so it will be easy for you to take it from Genghis when that time comes.
 
Don't wipe out Civs.

AI will consider you a threat. I've noticed huge shift in their attitude when I eliminate Civs or kill off city states, which counts as Civ eliminations. So something in the code is tweaking their grand strategy AI. This isn't something like going from 'we like you' to 'we sort of like you' linear shift, this can totally turn AI civs off because once they consider you a threat, they will not consider renewing your DoF and it could be the start of a denunciation chain.

Some AI will be more sensitive to it than others. Warmongers AI will generally tolerate your warmongering, but they usually don't make great friends unless they are far away. Builders will be very sensitive and quick to denounce you as a threat to them.

My rule of thumb, don't kill unless you absolutely have to.

Edit: Challenge to the OP. Kill off Siam and see how Sweden reacts. I'm pretty sure Ghengis Khan won't care, but Adolfus might get mad.

I assume you are not at war and is relatively friendly. If that is not the case, cancel the experiment :P
 
Yea right now Sweden is the only one I have a decleration of friendship with so we're on good terms. I already took a city state though (Zanzibar as you can see in the screenshot) and the only one that seemed to care was Siam and only because he had pledged protection to them.

EDIT: Actually I believe Sweden is also currently at war with Siam. Wouldn't it be a little bipolar of him to get mad at me for wiping out a mutual enemy?
 
EDIT: Actually I believe Sweden is also currently at war with Siam. Wouldn't it be a little bipolar of him to get mad at me for wiping out a mutual enemy?
It would, but don't expect the AI coding to make sense. You can wipe out 99 % of a civ and everybody will love you, but if you kill that last pop-1 city, they'll consider you a warmongering menace and denounce you - even if they hated the civ in speak. That's just another example lf the game's great AI coding. So try to persuade someone else to take out the last city.

You can also buy a city state allie and gift them a couple of units and see if they can do it, but it's usually not a good strategy as city state will normally approach with one unit and a time until they are all dead.
 
I`ll wipe out a Civ if it has been a huge pain.

Sometimes I`ve let Civs live with one city after crushing them, make Peace, then next turn they DENOUNCE me?

When they do stupid things like that, I destroy them, even if it upsets other Civs. the smart defeated Civs keep quiet until I forget about them.
 
It's a mongolian missionary.
 
Yea right now Sweden is the only one I have a decleration of friendship with so we're on good terms. I already took a city state though (Zanzibar as you can see in the screenshot) and the only one that seemed to care was Siam and only because he had pledged protection to them.

I usually don't recommend reloading turns as it is a crutch, but take this challenge (if you have the time/interest)

Kill of Siam and see how sweden + rest of the world reacts. It may not be immediate, but I'll be interested to see if they don't renew or DoF or add 'you're a warmongering menace' in your diplo screen.

In anycase, back to the main game. Let them take it, or keep Siam alive as a buffer between you and Sweden.

EDIT: Actually I believe Sweden is also currently at war with Siam. Wouldn't it be a little bipolar of him to get mad at me for wiping out a mutual enemy?

Why would it be? Your 'common foe' modifier will outweight your Civ elimination penalty in the near term, but over the long term, they will know you killed off Siam and will count it against you. Plus if you grew fat from the war, some AI will treat that as a threat, because not only if the elimination penalty weighing on you, you also have your score changing and the AI very much do look at scores to figure out who their next threat it. They may not look at it like humans do, but if you play through enough games, you'll notice they act very predictably accross many games and there's very definately 'score' competition among the top civs.

This is why in cases of joint wars where 2 or more civs including yourself dismember another Civ, its best not to be the one to eliminate. Because you are already getting hit some a warmonger penalty with each city you take, mild but it adds up over many cities. You get hit with another penalty with taking a capital (conquest VC flag), and a third penalty for killing off the Civ.
 
It's a mongolian missionary.

That's actually an English missionary. If you look just to the right of him you'll see the Mongolian settler.

I usually don't recommend reloading turns as it is a crutch, but take this challenge (if you have the time/interest)

Kill of Siam and see how sweden + rest of the world reacts. It may not be immediate, but I'll be interested to see if they don't renew or DoF or add 'you're a warmongering menace' in your diplo screen.

In anycase, back to the main game. Let them take it, or keep Siam alive as a buffer between you and Sweden.

Yea I think I'll kill Siam just to see what happens. A few civs already have me labeled a warmonger but not all. Actually the warmonger label might be gone by now I can't remember but I got it when I warred with England earlier on.
 
Yeah you have Siam's capital. So that's one hit against you. If you also have London its another hit.
Add in all cities you take and you're on your way :)

May not matter obviously if your going for a Conquest VC.

On that note, what is your vC?
 
Okay my mistake.
 
Siam is no more! I actually didn't get a diplo hit the next turn either. Everyone except Sweden and Japan already thought I was a "warmongering menace". I was going to do a before and after of Sweden's diplomacy but they were both the same so I only did a before.

XxDDM.jpg


XSjoG.jpg
 
Also, you were right about how I should have killed that Mongolian settler. Look what they just did lol. I was gonna go war with England next but now Mongolia is just asking for it... I demanded that city from them and they said no. Guess I'm just gonna have to burn it to the ground by force.

FE88o.jpg
 
An inquisitor will stop prophets from converting your cities. Can you can just move it around to stop them. Don't need one in each city. 2-3 empire wide is all you need.

I usually buy one early when they are 200 faith for my capital. Then buy more as needed.

Don't sign open borders with Civs you thing have a good likelihood of spreading their religion and you can deal with their missionaries via attrition.

As for diplo hit, it usually doesn't happen right away. A switch usually goes off several turns later when the grand strategy AI reassess threats. As I noted, the effect of eliminating civs appear to go far beyond simple numerical modifiers in their opinion towards you (the green/red stuff) but affects grand strategic thinking of the AI.
 
i'd leave that city as a nice buffer between you and the west side civs. i would prioritize wiping out england and then mongolia though to secure your east side which would free you up to focusing all of your forces on the western side. right now you are in the position of possibly facing the dreaded 'two front war'.
 
Back
Top Bottom