Tokugawa-Earth 18Civ on Noble

[Khalid Peer]

OK here goes
Any advice on how to win with Tokuga with the following scene: 18 civs, noble, temperate, marathon, all victory cond. possible?

 

[Racsoviale]

he is a fun one to play. You have tons of possibilities, and are quite safe from China, and anyone else for that matter.
You can go all out on a colonizing spree in southeast asia and Australia(GLH anybody), maybe try and get a strong foothole in mainland asia in Korea(which is almost essential no matter what direction you go, since that area is too good and too close to let go).
Alternatively, you can start colonizing north/south america(I believe it is possible to cross the pacific with a galley, I'm quite sure I did that once)

Furthermore you get 17 civs to interact/trade with, oppossed to only 16 if you take any other civ

On winning conditions, I believe to have read something here about someone getting a domination/conquest victory, where the key seems to be to conquer china ASAP!!...the land is priceless anyway, and then simply steamroll the rest of the world with samurai.....But I might just be rambling. But space seems quite feasible too, since the UB helps with prodution, but then expansion south seems to be way.

This is just my own ahem "noble" 2 cent

 

[Yared]

OK here goes
Any advice on how to win with Tokuga with the following scene: 18 civs, noble, temperate, marathon, all victory cond. possible?

• Get a foothold in Mainland-Asia. Korea and Thailand are good targets but be careful so that you don't get in between the ever-present China-Mongolia wars.
• REX in Maritime-Southeast Asia. Australia is good cuz it got Uranium - a resource very needed in your quest to rule the seas. I think there's oil in Malaysia but I'm not sure whether it's on land or on sea...
• Monty usually settles Northwest America a little later in the game so remember to grab that cuz Alaska got oil and the Seattle-area got some nice minerals. It's also a good base if you ever decide to invade the Aztecs or Americans
• South America is a very nice play to REX as well as it has some nice resources (Aluminum, Iron, Gold, Oil) and some of my best cities - whether I'm American, European, African or Asian - lie in just that place. It's also good cuz there aren't any civs there (except for the locked Incas) . So don't neglect it and watch out for them darn Europeans!

If you can, I'd recommend you to settle:

• South Africa: It could make a decent prod-city and and a nice base in Africa as it's the farthest place from the Malinese and Egyptians. If you choose to do that, watch out for Cyrus and Saladin!
• Iceland: This island is usually taken by the English (along with Norway-Sweden) but If you get the chance TAKE IT!!!! It wont be a good city as it's most likely the farthest place (but a courthouse will help) from your capital and it's a small island; but when you get the Flight tech you'll be happy you have it! Build an airport and BAM!! You got an awesome city for future Euro-invasions as you can quickly spam soldiers and just fly them there! It's also relatively easy to defend as you can fly soldiers every turn and it's an island.

I hope what I wrote was helpful.

EDIT: I forgot to add that you should try to go for wonders and civics that complements an Island-empire - basically things that help increase the value of: trade routes, sea-tiles, etc.

 

[r_rolo1]

You might get some ideas from here

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I usually hate airlifts, but on huge they're at their best. Still, rails + shipping can get you anywhere pretty quickly, definitely < 10 turns to go anywhere in the world typically.

Anyway, with Japan you'll probably want to move the palace onto the mainland continent, and possibly wipe out china/mongolia early (I've successfully warrior rushed china before...) Australia and those pacific islands are easy enough to colonize so that should be done. From there, it's just preference whether you want to move in through india, or head east to work north america a bit.

 

[Feyaria]

If you conquer China or settle more then 3 cities on the mainland, move your palace there ASAP, else the colony costs will ruin your research.

 

[ChiefTonfa]

i beat it with japan on emperor on the longearth3noturncounter earth 18 mod. which is a great earth 18 mod if u dont have it heres the link the new world is left open and theres new civs and resources.
http://www.civearth.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=26&func=view&id=2781&catid=2
its the ones at the very bottom of the forum, zip file not rar.
anyways the rules also were marathon no vassal no tech trading. and i thought since tokugawas traits and UUs were all strong militarily, i would go for a domination victory. heres what i did. my first city was on the southernmost spot on the island, to gain immediate access to the gold for fast research. i build a work boat then a worker and tech mysticism. after worker build stonehenge so ur cities grow faster and get a GP. 2nd tech is mining for gold. then get sailing third or fourth and build a settler and a galley. 2nd city should be in southern china by the marble and bannana and clam. then 3rd and 4th city in mid and north japan. my tip is that dont rush military until after you've teched construction. go for construction fast but until then just build buildings cause the military will slow your research down and delay construction. once u have construction you'll be fighting constantly. i invaded mainland china taking shanghai then the capital. once you have a strong base in china you can decide where to go from there. i went through khmer and india to take out persia cause cyrus can sometimes get too strong. i remember that in this game i was very low in points for a while and also would fall behind in techs but i kept a strong military and eventually took the lead and nabbed an easy domination win from there. but the very early part of the game was the hardest. i got 43000 points one of my better scores.

 

[Abraham Lincoln]

First, settle 3 cities on Japan, and build 4 cities on the mainland before 500 AD. Send the most of your troops to the cities on Asia. Research machinery and civil service early (then you'll get samurais). Try to settle some cities on the Indonesian islands and Australia. Build many buildings in your cities (especialy Market and Library is important). Make many workers, and try to found a religion as early as possible and spread it to your neighbours. Build the religious wonder with a prophet. Try to produce many samurais and trebuchets. When you see you are superior against China in the military, then attack and conquer. Try to research Astronomy before 1500 AD, and use galleons to transport settlers and troops to America. Build on both sides of the continent, and try to research Chemistry before 1600 AD, when every one tries to settle many cities. Put a long row of Privateers 4-5 tiles from the coast of America. Put them 4-5 tiles from each other and put 2 and 2 on each plot (if you loose one then you have an other). With a long row of Privateers you can attack your friends ships without declearing war, when they try to settle cities on America. Try to settle entire America full of settlements before 1800 AD. When you have got Tanks, Aeroplanes and Panzerboats, try to attack and conquer some of your neighbours (for example Asoka or Genghis Khan). Research Fusion as early as possible, and win a space race victory!

- AL

 

[Zubbus]

On winning conditions, I believe to have read something here about someone getting a domination/conquest victory, where the key seems to be to conquer china ASAP!!...the land is priceless anyway,

China is indeed a very good place for starting or for anyone to take over. I played China there and it was my first noble win ever. West side is generally very safe, mostly mountains as long as you seal off SW and NW Tibetian mountains then you have very little border to worry about. To SW you can take all of the "Southeast Asia region" and block India at a choke point or if you for any reason failed at it you can concede that region and choke just behind. But India's going to be stuck clearing Jungles for the first 4000 years so there's really no reason to lose SE Asia to them or even to fail to conquer India at your convenience. There's Japan from the sea but Japan doesn't quite have anywhere close to the land or resource to match to be a threat (unless you play it yourself at lower difficulty to get the bonus yourself).

Oh and there's the South East Asia you already mentioned. It's free for grabs and China's probably the most advantageous considering both distance and starting resources.

 

[Japsnap]

Playing noble ang going for a domination of asia seems to be everybody's choice. But, in fact, Japan like the English has the great advantage of being isolated. Insularity is the key, even if Korea and Thailand are rich lands. For some reasons, I don't advice settling on the continent.

1- It's quite dangerous to colonize Korea. Whatever you do, China and Mongolia are going to exceed you in term of production and by the way you send a settler there, China has already put a city here, a very good one and trust me, it is not good to become the target of mongolia once Gengis has keshliks

2- See maintenance cost strategy. China would be I think your best ally. You need to let Qin Shi settle everywhere on the continent but not in the islands. Doing so, China is going to face tremedous maintenance cost and won't be a menace for you to grab all the lucrative southern islands. Same thing for India.

3- See military strategy. As I usually do with Elizabeth, I use continental powers like an army for me. China should protect you and in return, you need I think to grant Qin Shi for his protection. If you want to conqueer him, wait for tanks, Samurai won't last against Chu ko nu....but anyway, I think it's a better idea to see China as a great wall for Japan.

4- See Key ressources. Your main rival is situated on the other side of the map: England, the forever tech leader. You can compensate Elizabeth's ridiculous advantages (philosophical/financial upon islands including stone!) by getting calendar's ressources and think about corporations, mainly sid's sushi, ethanol and civ jewelers. You need Oil and Uranium. Oil can be found on the Borneo's shores and Uranium is waiting for you in Australia. So, as you see, there's no need for you to settle on the continent. You'll be able to trade for missing ressources such as deer, cow, sheep and obviously England is your best trade partner, while opening trade routes with chinese giant cities (think about the GLH) is a good way to make a ton of money (intercontinental routes, which is not the case of you colonize the continent). If you want horses or Ivory, I think that both Catherine and Mansa would exchange them against some of your calendar's ressources.

So the key is: Settle the islands (don't forget Taiwan!) and until you colonize the whole southern Asia, do not intend a war, that will be to expansive. Once done, you will be able to start and finance any war. It's usually a good idea to do so in America.

On this map early rush are good only for Germans, Romans and Greeks

Sorry for my english

 

[Japsnap]

1-On this map the Aztecs have the best starting position. If you settle your capital two tiles North to grabs four corns, the deer, the silver, found a religion (monotheism or rush code of laws thanks to Oracle), you're going to be the tech leader, and nobody will reach you. Huyana is stupid when controlled by the IA and America is forever concerned by production issues.

No need to declare war...just let Roosevelt colonize all toundra (he'll be your eastern frontier), the Incan will protect for you the west coast of South America. Both are going to vassalize one day and you usually win a diplomatic victory because in the late game, thanks to your american settlement you represents more than 60% of the mondial population.

2- Second best start for the Russian. If you settle one tile south east your capital and next settle your first cities not so far from your capital, controlling the actual european russia and limiting yourself, at first, on the Ob river, you will only need to wait for cossacks and canons to conqueer Europe. But you do need to let Cyrus settle in Siberia (you don't want to have direct borders with Mongolia first and doing so Cyrus would dig his own grave (maintenance costs!)

Try to build Stonehenge, the great wall and the Oracle in Moscow (code of law rush). To win the game you're going to use both Catherine's trait: culture and wars (but later).

3- The third best start. Cyrus. If you settle your capital on the Ivory (to have access to shores) and next mesopotamia (grabing copper, deer, sheep and wheat) and next anatolia (on the marble), you won't need to settle more, just conqueer the world! Cyrus is wonderful when warring (imperialistic and charismatic).

The worst start ?

EGYPT!!! Flood plains are good, but all the game long you lack of health bonuses and metals. Each of your settlement are usually under a military menace. You also have production troubles, and Hatchy is the best target for everybody. It's very hard to play Egypt and not to be conqueered before the renaissance.

 

[JoeHollywood]

...Japsnap...

I would completely disagree with your interpretation of the map, the strategies laid out to handle the map, and the ranking of civs that you listed as the "power civs"

 

[Yared]

Land = Power

I wouldn't just let Qin have all of that land for himself. I'd rather settle a couple of city blockers in southern China and expand that way all the way to India. Let Qin handle Mongolia.

edit

BTW, maintenance isn't that big of a deal on Noble

 

[Yared]

So ya, I'm just quickly playing it out to show how to do it.

Unfortunately, there is a tiny crack to the west through the mountains but a well placed city around Bangladesh or Burma would quickly deal with it.

I was easily able to get Korea as well.

The land I secure myself by settling those cities is very nice.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The worst start ?

EGYPT!!! Flood plains are good, but all the game long you lack of health bonuses and metals. Each of your settlement are usually under a military menace. You also have production troubles, and Hatchy is the best target for everybody. It's very hard to play Egypt and not to be conqueered before the renaissance.

The worst start is *easily* Mali.

Your capitol is a trash compost of floodplains without resources . Your surrounding land is food poor or outright desert. You have barb trouble from the south, and the land there isn't especially great (the jungle river cities are good, but take forever to develop). If you settle near Spain the fact that you're near the capitol on the same continent will culture press you. Your only way out is a drawn out empire development of flatlands, or war without any serious means of early production.

It's doable (I've done it on immortal, and it was actually one of the games I streamed), but it's definitely the hardest opening possible. Egypt at least has some production (quarry resources and horse) and food, not to mention access to a UU that can quickly murder its surroundings. Actually, Mali can do that too if you settle a bit to the SE and hurry it up...and you definitely want Egypts land, which should say a lot for whose start is worse, since an early rush target for Egypt is *not* mali.

 

[Jerrymander]

Inca?

"oh hey stuck behind these peaks. feels good man"

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Inca?

"oh hey stuck behind these peaks. feels good man"

However, in default earth 18 the other North American civs will 1) never declare on you and 2) never settle any of South America.

You can get sailing before settling > 3 cities, and you DO NOT pay colonial maintenance on cities across the mountain like Japan has to contend with for mainland Eurasiaca.

Also, the land quality for South America is far superior to that of Africa. Inca isn't even close to being the worst start, although it's annoyingly micro intensive you can pretty much cover like 20+ cities using one galley. On top of that you're not isolated.

Complete war security and the most uncontested quality land on the entire map is *not* the stuff of which bad starts are made.

 

[Jerrymander]

I've never played Earth18, but I notice Inca sucking bad in a lot of other people's games.

 

[the343danny]

Just go right ahead and take Korea, then axe/cata China. Mongolia isn't a threat with its terrible start, unless it takes Beijing, which you'll be taking anyways.

I'd say Japan is the easiest non European civ, because of a safe start, rich land, and from being far away from others even after you control all of China.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've never played Earth18, but I notice Inca sucking bad in a lot of other people's games.

Yes, for the same reason that the north american civs won't settle south america, Inca will never ever leave its 3 city hell on the western side of south america.

The default BTS (and pre-bts) AI doesn't consider city sites blocked off by peaks to be on different continents/landmasses, so it has no code to sail around them. Because of that, a default AI will never sail around a peak wall to settle sites on the same continent as their palace...

So in the default earth 18 civs, none of the western hemisphere civs will *ever* settle south america. A lot of people work around this by simply deleting the blocking peaks, turning them into hills. Inca does do a little better then, although good ole HC runs into the same trouble as roosevelt then ----> monty ownage. HC doesn't develop the jungle quickly enough and winds up fighting a spammy aztec that's 2-3x his size and power.

I'd say Japan is the easiest non European civ, because of a safe start, rich land, and from being far away from others even after you control all of China.

Arguably, Persia, Aztec, and China are all easier.