Aggie
Deity
I got it...
Tokugawa the Unsettled (Conquests 1.22 Deity Variant)
- Thread starter Nad
- Start date
Aggie
Deity
I'm sorry Nad, but I don't feel fit enough to play a difficult set of turns in a SG. Could I be skipped? 
Nad
Known Troublemaker
No problem Aggie...hope you feel better soon 
Nad...UP NOW
Greebley...ON DECK
I got it, will be playing tomorrow.
Nad...UP NOW
Greebley...ON DECK
I got it, will be playing tomorrow.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Civ 'flu? Aggie 
Get well soon.
Ted
Get well soon.
Ted
Aggie
Deity
Nonono! Nothing to do with civ
Nad
Known Troublemaker
I see gozpel is not kidding when he says our military is a "bit stretched".
Don't have much, do we?
Good job we can make peace. Take Ankuwa and 14g for peace. Next war will probably be against China. Looks like my job will be to build temples in captured cities and begin rebuilding some military for our war machines, Sir Bugsy and gozpel, to go play with again 
.
Science to 10%, lux to 20%. I keep the leader for the moment, Heroic Epic or army are not needed until we go to war again, so keep for the off-chance of getting flips/being able to build FP.
IT: Babylon building Sun Tzu.
Turn 1, 975BC: Army stays outside cities in case of flip. Hattusha hires scientist, science to 0%.
IT: Seville barracks ----------> granary. It's our 2nd city and can be a powerhouse once it grows.
Aleppo temple ---------> barracks.
Babylon building Hanging Gardens; Hittites building Artemis and Mausollos.
Turn 2, 950BC: Iroquois are the big boys in this game, but they lack horses, which is fortunate. Decide to form an embassy with them, they have no iron either but do have Pyramids and 2 luxuries. Form an embassy with China; they have 4 luxes, horses and iron, which means riders very soon unless we intervene...
IT: 4 city Byzantines declare war on Iroquois
Kyoto market ----------> horse
Santiago worker ----------> worker
Murcia warrior ----------> worker
Zulu start Sun Tzu and Hanging Gardens.
Turn 3, 925BC: Iroquois already have strong presence in area as they head towards Byzantines.
IT: China demands and gets 20g.
Turn 4, 900BC: form embassy with Spain for 30g...would rather spend the cash than have it demanded.
IT: Babylon demands horses! I refuse, they declare war.
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
China building Great Wall.
Turn 5, 875BC: that's changed plans a bit. Form another army with leader, fill with 1 horse and move to Seville to act as zone defence. Existing army moves towards Akkad.
Hattusha switches to warrior. Lux to 10%, adjust cities.
IT: Hattusha warrior ----------> worker
Zulu building Mausollos.
Turn 6, 850BC: move army to threaten Akkad next turn. Madrid horse joins second army.
Form embassy with Hittites, then sign free rop...don't want them or China to ally with Babylon.
IT: Bab bowmen near Akkad move. 2 Bab spears move into Madrid's borders.
Madrid temple ----------> worker
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
Aleppo barracks ----------> catapult
Iroquois building Great Wall. Zulu complete Artemis.
Turn7, 825BC: army attacks Akkad and kills a bowman and spear. Madrid army kills both Bab spears, promotes. Bab galley seen.
IT: FFS, Iroquois demand horses! This is an awful situation: they have a lot of troops in the area chasing Byzantium, and we would lose a couple of cities if we refuse and they declare war, which is likely given their power rating. But giving in is also nasty, because not only does it allow them to train mounties and have a perfectly timed GA, but it also risks our reputation since the route is risky while we are at war with Babylon. It's a horrible choice, but I have to give in to prevent immediate city loss.
Tarsus temple ----------> barracks
China buildng Great Wall. Iroquois complete Great Wall. Babs cascade to Hanging Gardens. Hittites complete Mausollos.
Turn 8, 800BC: kill 2 more spears in Akkad, still more Bab troops. Decide not to risk 6HP army attacking fortified spear, instead move away to heal. Third horse joins Madrid army.
IT: lots of Bab movement. 3 bowmen threaten Santiago which is probably toast unless we can make peace within 2 turns.
Hiitites and Iroquois ally against Byzantium.
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
Hattusha worker ----------> temple
Turn 9, 775BC: move warriors and worker out of Santiago to enable eacape route. Madrid army kills a Bab spear. Ankuwa whips temple. Iroquois have republic at monopoly.
I've just noticed a possibility. Santiago is probably toast, except we can ally with the Iroquois against Babylon for 26gpt and possibly save the city that way, but that would tie us into a long war. I will stop a turn early so we can debate this...is it worth it? The situation is depicted below.
I shouldn't have moved the warriors out of the city already until we'd discussed the plan, but unfortunately I only thought of the Iroquois possibility after I'd already moved them, so sorry about that. They can still move back to the city, but they would not be fortified by the time the Babs rached them.
What should we do team?
Greebley is up next, with 11 turns.
Don't have much, do we?
Good job we can make peace. Take Ankuwa and 14g for peace. Next war will probably be against China. Looks like my job will be to build temples in captured cities and begin rebuilding some military for our war machines, Sir Bugsy and gozpel, to go play with again .Science to 10%, lux to 20%. I keep the leader for the moment, Heroic Epic or army are not needed until we go to war again, so keep for the off-chance of getting flips/being able to build FP.
IT: Babylon building Sun Tzu.
Turn 1, 975BC: Army stays outside cities in case of flip. Hattusha hires scientist, science to 0%.
IT: Seville barracks ----------> granary. It's our 2nd city and can be a powerhouse once it grows.
Aleppo temple ---------> barracks.
Babylon building Hanging Gardens; Hittites building Artemis and Mausollos.
Turn 2, 950BC: Iroquois are the big boys in this game, but they lack horses, which is fortunate
. Decide to form an embassy with them, they have no iron either but do have Pyramids and 2 luxuries. Form an embassy with China; they have 4 luxes, horses and iron, which means riders very soon unless we intervene...IT: 4 city Byzantines declare war on Iroquois
Kyoto market ----------> horse
Santiago worker ----------> worker
Murcia warrior ----------> worker
Zulu start Sun Tzu and Hanging Gardens.
Turn 3, 925BC: Iroquois already have strong presence in area as they head towards Byzantines.
IT: China demands and gets 20g.
Turn 4, 900BC: form embassy with Spain for 30g...would rather spend the cash than have it demanded.
IT: Babylon demands horses! I refuse, they declare war.
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
China building Great Wall.
Turn 5, 875BC: that's changed plans a bit. Form another army with leader, fill with 1 horse and move to Seville to act as zone defence. Existing army moves towards Akkad.
Hattusha switches to warrior. Lux to 10%, adjust cities.
IT: Hattusha warrior ----------> worker
Zulu building Mausollos.
Turn 6, 850BC: move army to threaten Akkad next turn. Madrid horse joins second army.
Form embassy with Hittites, then sign free rop...don't want them or China to ally with Babylon.
IT: Bab bowmen near Akkad move. 2 Bab spears move into Madrid's borders.
Madrid temple ----------> worker
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
Aleppo barracks ----------> catapult
Iroquois building Great Wall. Zulu complete Artemis.
Turn7, 825BC: army attacks Akkad and kills a bowman and spear. Madrid army kills both Bab spears, promotes. Bab galley seen.
IT: FFS, Iroquois demand horses! This is an awful situation: they have a lot of troops in the area chasing Byzantium, and we would lose a couple of cities if we refuse and they declare war, which is likely given their power rating. But giving in is also nasty, because not only does it allow them to train mounties and have a perfectly timed GA, but it also risks our reputation since the route is risky while we are at war with Babylon. It's a horrible choice, but I have to give in to prevent immediate city loss.
Tarsus temple ----------> barracks
China buildng Great Wall. Iroquois complete Great Wall. Babs cascade to Hanging Gardens. Hittites complete Mausollos.
Turn 8, 800BC: kill 2 more spears in Akkad, still more Bab troops. Decide not to risk 6HP army attacking fortified spear, instead move away to heal. Third horse joins Madrid army.
IT: lots of Bab movement. 3 bowmen threaten Santiago which is probably toast unless we can make peace within 2 turns.
Hiitites and Iroquois ally against Byzantium.
Kyoto horse ----------> horse
Hattusha worker ----------> temple
Turn 9, 775BC: move warriors and worker out of Santiago to enable eacape route. Madrid army kills a Bab spear. Ankuwa whips temple. Iroquois have republic at monopoly.
I've just noticed a possibility. Santiago is probably toast, except we can ally with the Iroquois against Babylon for 26gpt and possibly save the city that way, but that would tie us into a long war. I will stop a turn early so we can debate this...is it worth it? The situation is depicted below.
I shouldn't have moved the warriors out of the city already until we'd discussed the plan, but unfortunately I only thought of the Iroquois possibility after I'd already moved them, so sorry about that. They can still move back to the city, but they would not be fortified by the time the Babs rached them.
What should we do team?
Greebley is up next, with 11 turns.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I've had a few beers so can't really contribute for another 8 hours or so 
Ted
Ted
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Pros -
1. We save Santiago - probably
2. The Iroquois are pulled into a two enemy war.
3. Good chance the Iroquois GA will be spent building military units - but they are already at war.
Cons -
1. A 20 turn war.
2. May lose Santiago regardless
3. Santiago isn't really contributing much to our economy other than the unit costs
I'm thinking that we abandon the city and go it alone.
1. We save Santiago - probably
2. The Iroquois are pulled into a two enemy war.
3. Good chance the Iroquois GA will be spent building military units - but they are already at war.
Cons -
1. A 20 turn war.
2. May lose Santiago regardless
3. Santiago isn't really contributing much to our economy other than the unit costs
I'm thinking that we abandon the city and go it alone.
Hmm... Tough one. I think I need to look at the save to judge things like:
How strong are the Babylons? Will 20 turns hurt us?
How important is Santiago?
Do we have troops nearby to take the city back?
In general I am in favor of the AI fighting one another in a game like this. The biggest threat of the alliance may be the greater possibility of ending up in a fight we are not so happy with. Will look at the save tonight for a better opinion.
I got it. I have another game to play first so this game is probably tomorrow.
[Edit: Looking at the save I don't think we should ally. The city is disconnected from our lands so hard to defend anyway and not very important. It is not worth losing options for.]
How strong are the Babylons? Will 20 turns hurt us?
How important is Santiago?
Do we have troops nearby to take the city back?
In general I am in favor of the AI fighting one another in a game like this. The biggest threat of the alliance may be the greater possibility of ending up in a fight we are not so happy with. Will look at the save tonight for a better opinion.
I got it. I have another game to play first so this game is probably tomorrow.
[Edit: Looking at the save I don't think we should ally. The city is disconnected from our lands so hard to defend anyway and not very important. It is not worth losing options for.]
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I've sneaked a look at the save and I don't think that Santiago is worth a 20 turn war
Ted
Ted
Nad
Known Troublemaker
If we're not going to ally, then should we abandon the city or gift it to another civ, so we can recapture it later?
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Gifting it to our next opponent might be a good option
Although China has some tough territory they have plenty of lux & resources too
Ted
Although China has some tough territory they have plenty of lux & resources too
Ted
Aggie
Deity
I agree with Ted here. Santiago is always going to give us problems...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I got it in a peace deal as an unexpected bonus. I agree that it isn't worth a 20 turn war. Give it away or abandon it.
Ok, I will abandon it or give it away - unless those bowmen don't approach the town next turn.
China does seem a logical choice. Abandoning it might not be bad; some AI will waste a settler rebuilding it and it will probably exist again when we are ready to claim it.
China does seem a logical choice. Abandoning it might not be bad; some AI will waste a settler rebuilding it and it will probably exist again when we are ready to claim it.
Since we are going for Literature, I decide to switch Seville to the Heroic epic with the idea of switching to the GLib.
IBT: The bowmen are next to Santiago.
750 BC: Oops, I remembered a bit late that I could have sent those units to the capitol. I moved them away instinctively and then remembered. I gift Santiago to China.
Out of curiosity if we are a despot why did we irrigate the wine? They are like Bonus Grassland. I would rather mine now and switch them when we swith governments.
710 BC: Iroquois and Byzantine sign peace.
690 BC: One of our armies does very poorly and is driven to the red attacking a fortified spear in Akkad
670 BC: Our other army captures the town.
Zulu Declares war on the Iroquois.
650 BC: Healing. Uruk seems far, but has iron... May go for it.
Iroquois are building Sun Tzu. We lose our supply of dyes
610 BC (aprox) Hanging gardens completed by Spain.
570 BC: Dang! the Iroquois start the GLib
IBT: Zulu start GLib Too
550 BC: I capture Uruk from Babylon.
Notes:
We need to decide if we want to compete for the GLib. Seville started before the Zulu and Iroquois, but the AI gets a discount. The two are about the same. We may be able to get it if we outproduce the size 7 capitol of Zimbabwe. We may be able to do so if we merged workers. Do we want to try?
Babylon will give us Lit or Monarchy for peace They will also give us their weaker town. Do we want to continue the war to get Republic from them? We could send an army toward the red outline and go for another town and see if they will give us Republic before and after. They do have some bowmen we may need to track down with an army as we don't have full defense in towns yet.
The next player should definitely pay attention to Akkad. The city is in danger. The real problem is that our army got hurt in the town attack.
IBT: The bowmen are next to Santiago.
750 BC: Oops, I remembered a bit late that I could have sent those units to the capitol. I moved them away instinctively and then remembered. I gift Santiago to China.
Out of curiosity if we are a despot why did we irrigate the wine? They are like Bonus Grassland. I would rather mine now and switch them when we swith governments.
710 BC: Iroquois and Byzantine sign peace.
690 BC: One of our armies does very poorly and is driven to the red attacking a fortified spear in Akkad
670 BC: Our other army captures the town.
Zulu Declares war on the Iroquois.
650 BC: Healing. Uruk seems far, but has iron... May go for it.
Iroquois are building Sun Tzu. We lose our supply of dyes
610 BC (aprox) Hanging gardens completed by Spain.
570 BC: Dang! the Iroquois start the GLib
IBT: Zulu start GLib Too
550 BC: I capture Uruk from Babylon.
Notes:
We need to decide if we want to compete for the GLib. Seville started before the Zulu and Iroquois, but the AI gets a discount. The two are about the same. We may be able to get it if we outproduce the size 7 capitol of Zimbabwe. We may be able to do so if we merged workers. Do we want to try?
Babylon will give us Lit or Monarchy for peace They will also give us their weaker town. Do we want to continue the war to get Republic from them? We could send an army toward the red outline and go for another town and see if they will give us Republic before and after. They do have some bowmen we may need to track down with an army as we don't have full defense in towns yet.
The next player should definitely pay attention to Akkad. The city is in danger. The real problem is that our army got hurt in the town attack.
Here is a picture of Akkad and the armies. The army in the circle has 2 moves left.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Got it
I won't be able to play for about 10 hours so feel free to chip in with comments & suggestions.
Ted
I won't be able to play for about 10 hours so feel free to chip in with comments & suggestions.
Ted
Nad
Known Troublemaker
I wouldn't bother with the Great Library...going for lit was purely from a trade point of view, there was never any desire to waste shields on the Great Library.
Maybe now we should decide what government we want? The consensus seemed to favour monarchy, and I'm happy to go with that too. If so then we could get that from the Babs.
The wines were irrigated as part of an irrigation path to the southern, ex-Hittite cities, IIRC, and also to provide 3 food tiles for fast growth in Seville as soon as we're out of despotism, which will likely be fairly soon.
Maybe now we should decide what government we want? The consensus seemed to favour monarchy, and I'm happy to go with that too. If so then we could get that from the Babs.
The wines were irrigated as part of an irrigation path to the southern, ex-Hittite cities, IIRC, and also to provide 3 food tiles for fast growth in Seville as soon as we're out of despotism, which will likely be fairly soon.
Well the wines are mined now. I was thinking we would go for republic which would take longer and possibly want the wonder and so want the shields. I do agree they are better irrigated once we are out of despot.
If we don't want the GLib, then I would let the heroic epic complete. That will be useful for us, or switch to a Market. I have probably played too much AW where the GLib makes a game SO much easier; especially AWE and above.
Monarchy is one option. Monarchy we can get NOW; Babylon will trade it for peace. That may be the best option - Get it and revolt immediately.
After the armies heal and head back into our own lands, we can go for China. The Mongols, Spanish, Hittites, and Byzantines are all good targets for war as well so we have a lot of possibilities.
We can consider Rebublic with more frequent switching off opponents to fend off WW. The setup works well with switching. We are Religious and could decide later if we want to switch.
If we don't want the GLib, then I would let the heroic epic complete. That will be useful for us, or switch to a Market. I have probably played too much AW where the GLib makes a game SO much easier; especially AWE and above.
Monarchy is one option. Monarchy we can get NOW; Babylon will trade it for peace. That may be the best option - Get it and revolt immediately.
After the armies heal and head back into our own lands, we can go for China. The Mongols, Spanish, Hittites, and Byzantines are all good targets for war as well so we have a lot of possibilities.
We can consider Rebublic with more frequent switching off opponents to fend off WW. The setup works well with switching. We are Religious and could decide later if we want to switch.
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