Tokugawa the Unsettled (Conquests 1.22 Deity Variant)

[TedJackson]

I've had a quick look at the save...

Monarchy for peace seems a good deal and would incline me to revolt to Monarchy ASAP (we can pick up Republic later if needed). Take a couple of turns to heal and position troops for an assault on China, then hit them hard with our Armies

Heroic Epic or Great Lib would both be a bonus for us so I would leave that on the back burner and concentrate on military everywhere else

I think a Conquest/Domination victory is on the cards if we can keep up the pressure. The Zulu vs Iroquois squabble is playing right into our hands and, hopefully, will keep the Iroquois from becoming a real problem until it's too late to matter.


Ted

 

[Greebley]

We seem to be in agreement Ted

I also think that Conquest or Domination are very doable and your plan to go mostly for military is sound - one other exception would be to rush the temple in Akkad - we do want to keep Culture high as we are keeping cities and reducing flips is a win for us. I was thinking we could rush it in 4 turns (when it has 20 shields to go). It is stuck at 2 pop now anyway...

 

[TedJackson]

rush the temple in Akkad - we do want to keep Culture high as we are keeping cities and reducing flips is a win for us. I was thinking we could rush it in 4 turns (when it has 20 shields to go). It is stuck at 2 pop now anyway...

Hopefully, we'll be able to cash rush it from Monarchy. Good point anyway. I'll check for culture producers in all our cities before I get too carried away with reducing China to a pulp


Ted

 

[Greebley]

I forgot we were switching to Monarchy right away. The cash is probably better used elsewhere.

It also occurred to me though that once you make peace, you can at least make the town grow as you won't get the "war with mother country" unhappiness. I would just keep it on temple, so we have more culture than Babylon in the city which will reduce flip chance by 2 or so. Might be a good idea for Uruk too.

[Edit: I see I accidentally left Uruk on the default "spear". I would definitely change that]

 

[TedJackson]

OK,

I'll play a couple of turns over lunch


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

RL got in the way so I've only played 5 turns

I'm a bit wasted now so I'll try to finish off first thing in the morning.


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

Spain declared on the inter-turn (half expected) so has delayed war with China.

Turn 7 (410BC) I get a GL (Fujiwara) but I can't make up my mind what to do with him; we can't build another army yet so it comes down to a choice between the Forbidden Palace & the Great Library. Normally, I wouldn't hesitate and have just built the FP but the GL would give us Feudalism, Engineering & Republic immediately.

I'll wait for the team to comment before resuming play.


Ted

 

[Aggie]

A great leader? Is it a SGL or a MGL? When it's a MGL: no Great Library When it's a SGL: no army I guess you got a MGL, so the FP seems like the best choice?

 

[Nad]

If we have enough cities, I would concur with FP.

 

[TedJackson]

Old habits die hard it seems... Can't teach an old dog new tricks... Where did I leave my brain last night?

Of course it was an MGL so Forbidden Palace it is, although I'm not too sure about placement. I'll have another look and perhaps post a screenshot.


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

Nad-OBC 550BC

Pre-flight checks... OK

Military Status
We are:
Average vs Byzantium (Monarchy)
Weak vs China (Monarchy)
Weak vs Iroquois (Republic)
Average vs Babylon (Republic)
Strong vs Spain (Monarchy)
Average vs Hittites (Despotism)
Average vs Zulu (Monarchy)

Tech Status
Byzantium (annoyed, 33gp) are up Monarchy & Feudalism
China (annoyed, 0gp) are up Monarchy
Iroquois (annoyed, 192gp) are up Literature, Republic, Monarchy & Feudalism
Babylon (furious, 6gp) are up Literature, Republic, Monarchy & Feudalism
Spain (furious, 29gp) are up Monarchy
Hittites (furious, 1gp) are up Literature
Zulu (annoyed, 1gp) are up Literature, Monarchy & Feudalism
Interestingly our Scientific rivals both got Feudalism as their free tech.

Resources
Byzantium has both Iron & Horses
China has both Iron & Horses
Iroquois has Iron but no Horses
Babylon has Iron but no Horses
Spain has both Iron & Horses
Hittites have neither Iron nor Horses
Zulu has Iron but no Horses

I still think China is our best target. We could roll over the Hittites easily but they only have Silks (Harran) on offer. It might be worth picking them off after China.

0 - 550BC
Sell peace to Babylon for Literature, Monarchy + 8gpt
Research Monotheism @ Lone Scientist (Heading for Samurai)
Nobody is willing to trade either Republic or Feudalism
Hattusha switches from Market to Barracks
Uruk switches from Spear to Temple
Revolution
Kyoto hires 3 clowns

IBT
Lots of troops movements
We get the Forbidden Palace message
Resistance in Uruk ends

1 - 530BC
Armies set to heal

IBT

Enter Monarchy
China starts Great Lib

2 - 510BC
Iroquois, Babylon & Zulu know Engineering
Armies had back toward Kyoto
MM Kyoto for 15spt + Scientist
MM Tarsus for Spear at EOT
Lux 20% (Kyoto)
Can't find a lever to trade Feudalism

IBT
Kyoto Sword - Sword
Tarsus Spear - Sword
Byzantium starts Sun Tzu
Hittites start Great Lib

3 - 490BC
Armies continue toward Kyoto
Akkad hurries Temple for 92gp

IBT
Zulu demands Horses - I give in (it will make life harder for the Iroquois)
Madrid Barracks - Horse
Akkad Temple - Warrior
Babylon starts Great Lib

4 - 470BC
Armies continue toward Kyoto
Workers work
Lux 10%

IBT
Iroquois & Zulu exchange blows Northwest from Uruk
Spain moves 3 small stacks close to Akkad
Kyoto Sword - Sword
Ankuwa Barracks - Horse

5 - 450BC
Armies arrive at Kyoto
Workers work
Akkad hurries Walls
Sign RoP with Spain (just in case)

IBT
Spain declares war on us
Akkad fends off Warrior
Spain captures Slave (NE Akkad)
Akkad Walls - Spear

6 - 430BC
Well, that's thrown a spanner in the works

China will have to wait and may therefore have Feudalism & Pikes before we are able to tackle her.
Akkad short rushes Spear
Elite Horse kills Spear (NW Akkad)
Armies head for Madrid & Akkad

IBT
Iroq & Zulu at it hammer & tongs
Spain captures Slave (NW Uruk)
Kyoto Sword - Horse
Hattusha Barracks - Spear
Akkad Spear - Sword

7 - 410BC
Elite Horse kills reg Warrior (N Akkad) & produces GL (Fujiwara)
Akkad switches to FP
Fujiwara hurries FP
Uruk hurries Walls
Army & 2 Horse arrive at Madrid

IBT
Spanish Warrior attacks Akkad even though an Army is in residence. He dies
Warrior (Uruk) fends off Warrior & promotes to Vet
Zulu & Iroquois sign Peace Treaty
Aleppo Sword - Spear
Akkad FP - Sword
Uruk Walls - Temple
Murcia Worker - Barracks

8 - 390BC
Elite Horse (Akkad) kills Spear
Army & 3 Horse arrive W Barcelona
Akkad hurries Catapult

IBT
Army (Akkad) fends off 3 Warriors
Lots of Iroquois heading our way
Kyoto Horse - Horse
Akkad Cat - Sword

9 - 370BC
Cat (Akkad) knocks 1hp off Spanish vet Warrior
Elite Horse (Akkad) kills Warrior
Army kills reg Pike (Barcelona)
Army kills reg Pike (Barcelona)
Vet Horse kills reg Pike (Barcelona)
Vet Horse kills reg Pike (Barcelona)
Elite Horse kills reg Pike (Barcelona)
Army kills reg Pike (Barcelona) and captures city (Hanging Gardens, 3 resistors) - that was nail-biting
Spain won't talk and I don't really want to get involved in an MA at this point

IBT
Army (Barcelona) is killed by MDI
Lots of Iroquois around Akkad
Tarsus Sword - Sword
Quell 2 resistors at Barcelona

10 - 350BC
Spain will now talk but we can't get Feudalism and she has nothing else to offer
I'll end my turns here, with all movement points, to allow the next player maximum flexibility.

War Zone

Notes
Well, we ended up in a war we didn't want instead of the war we did.

I'm very worried about the Iroquois troops around Akkad. They might be just passing through but I somehow doubt it.

The Spanish had no hesitation in attacking our Horse Army at Akkad with plain old Warriors and finished of Gozpel's Gnats (Barcelona) with an MDI.

Iroquois have Monotheism so Knights aren't that far off. My gut feeling is that the Iroquois are going to snowball very soon.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[Yom]

Nice rebound from the sneak attack to take Barcelona. Those Iroquois troops certainly are disheveling... If Toledo is the last spanish city, maybe we should just take that (thus eliminating them and reducing flip risks) and then concentrate on building up military to tackle the Iroquois before it's too late.

Sorry I haven't been posting much earlier. I didn't have much to add to the discussion.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I've got the game. I should have it played and posted by Sunday evening Pacific time. If the Iroquois attack, I'll go to General Quarters and try and make the best out of the situation.

I'll keep the team posted on any major changes.

 

[Aggie]

I don't know if those Iroquois really want to attack us. That spear on the mountain wouldn't be there if they would go on a sneak attack. Same for the warrior SE of Akkad

 

[Nad]

From the picture, I agree with Aggie...it's not certain that the Iroquois are going after us...they may be heading for Hittites....so I suggest we don't issue a boot order and hope for the best.

Great work Ted, things are shaping up nicely. I think there's a communist conspiracy trying to prevent us fro attacking China! First Babylon, then Spain, Iroquois next?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Preflight – 350 BC – Twenty Iroquois units in the vicinity of Akkad. And Hiawatha and Shaka are no longer at war. Even if they were, some of these units are too far off course to be going after the Zulu. I’m going to go on the assumption that we have a sneak attack in progress. I move a horse and a sword towards Akkad. I wake up our three swords in Kyoto and move them across the river.

This should be an interesting interturn. *crosses fingers*

IBT – A MDI outside of Barcelona attacks, redlined and promotes our horse. The Iroquois horde heads south into Zulu lands. Maybe this isn’t right. Maybe they are at war.
Kyoto: horse=>horse

1. 330 AD – Keep two swords at Kyoto to guard our northern front. Send one to the east for the Spanish war.

A Spanish pike has moved next to Barcelona. Probably looking to pillage our iron. I attack with one elite horse, who retreats. A second flawlessly kills the pike.

Use a horse out of Akkad to kill a wandering Spanish warrior. Use our horse army to kill a Spanish LB. Spend 100G, rushing Barcelona’s temple for a little culture there. Leave a wounded horse as the garrison, move the other two horses outside of the city. I hate losing units in a flip.

Still no deal available for feudalism from Theodora.

IBT – In an interesting twist Babylon declares on the Iroquois. Good thing Hiawatha has all his units down in Zululand. All the Iroquois reverse march and head north.
Barcelona: Temple=>spear
Hattusha: Spear=>horse
Ankuwa: horse=>horse
Hiawatha builds the Great Library

2. 310 BC – Amass a force of three horses and our horse army on the heights overlooking Toledo. Leave two horses to cover a Barcelona flip.

IBT – Isabella wants to talk. She’ll give us three slaves, and 5G for peace. Hey, you started this war. Ever hear of reparations?
Isabella helps in the capture of Toledo by attacking one of our horses on a mountain with a LB, which dies.
Then we get this message:

A Chinese spear attacks Barcelona and the city falls.
Madrid: horse=>horse
Kyoto: Horse=>sword
Aleppo: spear=>horse

3. 290 BC - @ Barcelona – Kill two of the three spears with the loss of on hp. Glad I kept those horses just out side the city.

Since I only want one war at a time, I dial up Isabella and make the following peace treaty

Spend 60G upgrading two swords to MDI. Kill a spear that pillaged the road to Murcia. Attack a second and retreat.

IBT – Looks like Murcia will be a focal point of the Chinese offensive.

4. 270 BC – Barcelona has flipped back to the Spanish. So I won’t be retaking that city.

Stop my workers around Madrid and Murcia to rebuild the road. Move sword towards Murcia. Upgrade another sword. Move a force towards Chengdu. Let’s see if Mao reacts to that threat.

IBT – Isabella does us a favor and throws our horses out of her lands. Then in a major move she joins the Babylonians in an alliance against the Iroquois. Nad id you set the AI to max aggression?
Most of the Chinese force moves back towards Chengdu. A horse attacks our MDI promoting him to elite

5. 250 BC – Go after Chinese units that are easy prey. Kill an archer with an MDI. Kill a spear guarding an archer outside of Murcia. That city is safe. Lose a horse on a spear near Madrid.

IBT - A rough time. We lose a sword at Murcia, two MDI and two horses in the Chinese jungles.
Kyoto: MDI=>MDI

6. 230 BC – Kill the archer outside Murcia. Use our horse army to kill two swords. Two fresh MDI take out a spear and an archer. Upgrade a spear in Kyoto and another in Akkad.

IBT – The Babylonians pull the Zulu back into war with the Iroquois.
We lose a spear and a MDI in the Chines jungle. I hate this jungle.

7. 210 BC – Whack a Chinese sword with our army and with draw our forces to heal.

IBT – Tarsus: MDI=>MDI
Hattasha: Horse=>cat
8. 190 BC – A Chinese spear is sneaking in the backdoor outside Akkad. Bomabard then kill him.

Hire a tax lady in Ankuwa.

IBT – Now the Chinese sign on against the Iroquois. China signs the Hittites against us.
Tarsus riots.
The Heroic Epic completes in Seville =>Horse

9. 170 BC – I think we’re also going to be sneak attacked by the Zulu. I pull a spear out of Hattusha and send him the Ankuwa.
I spend 36G rushing the barracks in Murcia. Upgrade the warrior in Ankuwa. I’m going to plan on a skirmishing war on the Chinese front until our forces are stronger. Since I’ve been pulling troops out of cities, I bump lux to 10% rather than hire five or six specialists.

IBT – No Zulu attack. Most of the Hittites run away. A single 3-man rides forth. The Chinese are heading our way again.
Madrid: horse=>horse
Kyoto: MDI=>pike
Murcia: Barracks=>archer

10. 150 BC – Spend 150G upgrading 5 spears. Attack the 3-man with a horse. Horse dies, 3-man redlined.
I fortify most of our units in the north in Kyoto. Most of the units in the south don’t have much movement left.

After Action – We probably need to develop a plan on how to handle this situation. I think the Hittites are pretty weak. The Chinese are not, and they have some difficult terrain to fight in.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Nad_-_150_BC.zip

 

[Greebley]

I don't think we should build more horsemen. They are just not very useful for the Chinese attack having poor attack and defense. You can no longer upgrade large numbers of them with the higher cost either.

Lets use speed 1 units; Pikes for protection and MDI to do the work. We can also use the horses we have already got of course (under pikes).

It looks like we are building almost all horses, and horse alone won't cut it. We could stack our units under the army and take Chendu using the horses but it may cost us a lot of horses to do so, but also switch the builds to pikes and MDI to joind the forces. We will want to road the jungle square to connect us to get faster access.

The horses near Murcia can handle the chinese invading forces. Murcia seems the worst town to fight around as we cannot attack and retreat with the horse. I would send the nearby pike up so they go for some other town where we can attack and retreat.

In any case with China having pikes and with us having more horses than we will have resources to upgrade, I would say build Pikes, MDI and Trebuchets exclusively. When we get Chiv we can start building knights.

 

[Yom]

Agression does seem to be high. The world has been at war for who knows how long and it's only 150 B.C. I agree with Greebley that we should be building more MDI and fewer Horsemen. The cost to upgrade a horseman to a knight is 120 gold, and we don't have enough money to upgrade our whole army.

BTW, I noticed the entire Iroquois offensive on the volcano in that Screenshot you posted. How funny would it have been if it chose that moment to erupt .

 

[Sir Bugsy]

After thinking about this for a while, I think we should send our horses down south where they can play hit and run with the Hittites. Otherwise they aren't very helpful.

 

[Nad]

Good work Sir Bugsy . Pity about the sneak attack, but at least we're in the war we wanted, albeit not on our terms. And yes, aggression is set to max, that was part of the game parameters...it's a real bloodfest

Sir Bugsy...just played
gozpel...UP NOW
Yom...ON DECK (are you back in action and set to play after gozpel?)
Aggie
Nad
Greebley
Ted Jackson