Touhou Project Civ - Oni Clans

[bouncymischa]

Okay, so I've finally gotten this to a stage that I want to post it and get some feedback on it. Let's hope I did it correctly... X3

So, this is my mod based around the oni from the Touhou series of games!

Civ Info:

UA: Onikakushi - Pre-gunpowder melee units heal 25 HP after defeating an enemy. They also generate Great Generals 50% faster.

UB: Brewery - Replaces the Granary. Wheat, Bananas, Wine, and Citrus generate 1 extra food (but not Deer, the way the normal Granary does). Hill tiles generate 1 extra food, and land units are trained 10% faster.

UU: Kishin - Replaces the Great General. Provides the normal Great General bonus, as well as healing nearby units 20 HP each turn, and terrifying enemy units within 2 tiles (causing them to be 10% weaker).

The civilization also has a Hills starting bias.

So far I've only got the mod posted on the CivFanatics forums. It can be found here.

The civ uses Leugi's method of adding unique music to the game, so I've included a text file with the relevant code to be added to the G&K AudioDefines files.

I don't think the mod is quite complete enough to post to Steam (at the very least, I want to add unique diplomatic responses like some of the other Touhou mods). I'd also like to get some feedback regarding any balance issues in the mod, so please feel free to let me know what you think!

 

[Huitzil37]

Okay, I am playing them now, but I can tell you right now the Brewery should still get the Food bonus from Deer. They can make Jaeger out of it.

Yes, I know there isn't actually deer's blood in Jaeger and it's just an urban legend. Wouldn't that make it perfect to be something they do in Gensokyo?

 

[bouncymischa]

Okay, I am playing them now, but I can tell you right now the Brewery should still get the Food bonus from Deer. They can make Jaeger out of it.

Yes, I know there isn't actually deer's blood in Jaeger and it's just an urban legend. Wouldn't that make it perfect to be something they do in Gensokyo?

I don't really know anything about Jaeger, so hadn't thought of it. X3 Given the hills food bonus, as well as Wine and Citrus, I figured it might be enough to make up for it...

 

[Huitzil37]

The Kishin doesn't work quite right. The bonus to healing applies in adjacent tiles, but not to units in the same tile as it, which is counterintuitive and a bit silly. The name displays as "Name (Kishin) (Oni Kishin)," so maybe if you add a custom great-something unit, the game always makes the unit name display twice. And instead of the option to make a Citadel, it can be consumed to start a Golden Age like a Great Artist.

I can only assume that last one is a bug because it's kind of a big deal and would be mentioned in the civ writeup as a feature of the unit if it was intentional. But intentional or not, it's actually pretty awesome, and balancing them around making Great Generals who start Golden Ages sounds really, really cool to me.

 

[Apolodog]

The Kishin doesn't work quite right. The bonus to healing applies in adjacent tiles, but not to units in the same tile as it, which is counterintuitive and a bit silly. The name displays as "Name (Kishin) (Oni Kishin)," so maybe if you add a custom great-something unit, the game always makes the unit name display twice. And instead of the option to make a Citadel, it can be consumed to start a Golden Age like a Great Artist.

I can only assume that last one is a bug because it's kind of a big deal and would be mentioned in the civ writeup as a feature of the unit if it was intentional. But intentional or not, it's actually pretty awesome, and balancing them around making Great Generals who start Golden Ages sounds really, really cool to me.

Wait... A general can't start a golden age? My memory must be upside down cause I remember my first time playing vanilla civ as Alexander, and going for golden ages each time I got a general .

Great! Remember to add the link to the Touhou Mod development thread. I'll soon play with your civ.

 

[Huitzil37]

In vanilla, all Great People can start golden ages, and the Golden Ages get shorter every time. But in Gods & Kings, only Great Artists can start Golden Ages, and they stay the same length every time.

 

[bouncymischa]

The Kishin doesn't work quite right. The bonus to healing applies in adjacent tiles, but not to units in the same tile as it, which is counterintuitive and a bit silly. The name displays as "Name (Kishin) (Oni Kishin)," so maybe if you add a custom great-something unit, the game always makes the unit name display twice. And instead of the option to make a Citadel, it can be consumed to start a Golden Age like a Great Artist.

I can only assume that last one is a bug because it's kind of a big deal and would be mentioned in the civ writeup as a feature of the unit if it was intentional. But intentional or not, it's actually pretty awesome, and balancing them around making Great Generals who start Golden Ages sounds really, really cool to me.

Hmmmmmm~ Well, to go through the comments in order:

-The healing ability I borrowed from the Mongolian Khan, because with just the terror ability, they seemed kind of lacklustre. The promotion has a column called "AdjacentTileHealChange", which I think the Medic promotion does too... which suggests the program code only checks adjacent tiles, since normally the ability would be on a unit that can't stack with another unit. How weird... I'll have to see if there's a way to change the healing in the same tile as well.

-I'll have to double-check the names... I thought they were working okay before, but then I modified them a bit while trying to clean up the code, so maybe something got changed in it. Might also be worth checking the Mongolian Khans to see if they create the same effect.

-The Citadel ability should be there, as it's in the code...

-Apparently, the "start Golden Ages" ability must come from the "GoldenAgeTurns" field. It was on the Khan, so I copied it over as well, since I didn't know what it did. Looking at the existing Great People, though, it's an ability only on the Artist, so it must be the "start Golden Age" ability. Interesting... it does imply you can add the "sacrifice to create beakers" ability, trading missions, and so on on other units if you want... :3

EDIt: Looking at the fields, there's a "SameTileHealChange". I'll have to try adding that...

 

[Homusubi]

Looks like you've copied the vanilla Khan instead of the G&K one.

P.S. Is this the normal definition of Oni or another unique Touhou one?

 

[Huitzil37]

I was wrong, it can build a Citadel. I must have just seen the Golden Age button and assumed it replaced the citadel one.

In my defense, I was REALLY tired at the time.

 

[bouncymischa]

Looks like you've copied the vanilla Khan instead of the G&K one.

P.S. Is this the normal definition of Oni or another unique Touhou one?

Ah-ha, that's most likely it. I knew the Khan was a Great General replacement, and wanted to use it as a template... so I looked for the files in the Mongolia DLC. I didn't realize that it might've gotten changed in G&K, and thus have updated entries in the G&K files.

As for the definition of Oni, my original intention was to make something of a hybrid. The oni of the Touhou games are largely inspired off of mythological oni -- Suika is Shuuten-douji, Yuugi is Hoshikuma-douji, and Kasen is Ibaraki-douji (at least theoretically, since she hasn't been officially confirmed to be an oni, although a lot of evidence suggests she is). Even the whole "challenge humans and kidnap them" is likely inspired by the typical stories where oni carry off humans (either to eat or serve as slaves) (such as in the legend of Momotarou). There are also various other references in the Touhou games to oni legends -- Suika has a spellcard that references Mt. Ooe (where Shuuten-douji lived), and one of her theme songs references Onigashima (from Momotarou). So while the mod is ultimately rather Touhou-ish (certainly the DoM speech for Suika is and, when it's done, her civilopedia entry will be), the oni are also generic enough that they could probably serve as a generic oni civilization if you wanted them to go marauding around Japan.

I was wrong, it can build a Citadel. I must have just seen the Golden Age button and assumed it replaced the citadel one.

In my defense, I was REALLY tired at the time.

Ahhh, that's good to know! I hadn't really thought to test it myself, so I was worried something in the code only allowed a Great Person to do one such action (although, since vanilla allowed anyone to do it it makes sense it wouldn't be that restrictive).

I'm sorely tempted to give the Moriya Shrine a Great Prophet UU that can take advantage of the fact that you can add other GP abilities to it. Muahahah~ That'll largely depend on whether or not Great Prophets have the same issues that Missionaries and Inquisitors do, although my gut tells me that they don't.

In the meantime... regarding the Kishin's abilities, should I remove the Citadel ability and keep the Golden Age one? I know Huitzil mentioned it was a kind of cool idea... I still need to fix the healing ability on it, at least.

 

[Huitzil37]

The Newspaper Delivery unit was a Great Prophet, and it had the same issue as Missionaries and Inquisitors, if that issue is that replacement units for them can be bought by everyone.

 

[bouncymischa]

The Newspaper Delivery unit was a Great Prophet, and it had the same issue as Missionaries and Inquisitors, if that issue is that replacement units for them can be bought by everyone.

Hmmm, was it? I'll admit, I haven't had the chance to download and look at the Tengu mod yet (my Civ time has been focused on getting the Oni cleaned up). From the sounds of it, it sounded more like a Missionary replacement, but I suppose he did say it was a Great Prophet replacement. How odd... I can see the Missionary/Inquistor causing problems because they're purchased units, but the Great Prophet should be generated the same as other GPs... so why would the code botch up its replacement?

Well, I'll keep the idea in mind as a possibility. Worst comes to worst, if I really want a miracle-causing miko, there are ways to do it, and I can just make the UB the Onbashira, although I'm not sure which building it'd replace. I'll think on it some more, and do some more brainstorming in the general Touhou mod discussion thread. :3

I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the option of Citadel construction vs. Golden Age triggering ideas for the Kishin, though!

 

[Huitzil37]

I think having Golden Ages come out of them is cool and flavorful. They could either have or not have the ability to construct Citadels as well, and I think the question there is more about the message you send than the balance of it (it's pretty minor either way). Basically, if they can build Citadels, they are Great Generals with an extra use. If they can't build Citadels, that sends a message to the player: You shouldn't build defenses. You don't need Citadels because you should be attacking, not defending!

Is that a message in line with how the Oni Clans play? Sounds like it is. So I would take out the ability to make Citadels.

Also, their UB icon looks out of place since it looks like a photo, and it only has a base +food of +1 instead of +2. Those should probably be fixed. The UB's ability is kinda minor, so at the LEAST it should give food bonus from deer so you never feel like you missed out (which you would if you had a bunch of deer next to your city as Oni). I personally vote that if you keep the food bonus at only +1, then they should get +1 food on every resource that's even vaguely organic, making them care a lot more about map resources -- and where other civs get one or two cities on top of some good resources and then expand to where there's good terrain, the Oni maybe want to put more effort into taking the resource-heavy city from another civ. Also, because oni can make booze out of anything.

Also I personally think the Kishin's sake jug icon should be the alpha icon for the whole civ, and the kishin get some kind of demon head or mempo thing.

 

[bouncymischa]

I think having Golden Ages come out of them is cool and flavorful. They could either have or not have the ability to construct Citadels as well, and I think the question there is more about the message you send than the balance of it (it's pretty minor either way). Basically, if they can build Citadels, they are Great Generals with an extra use. If they can't build Citadels, that sends a message to the player: You shouldn't build defenses. You don't need Citadels because you should be attacking, not defending!

Is that a message in line with how the Oni Clans play? Sounds like it is. So I would take out the ability to make Citadels.

Also, their UB icon looks out of place since it looks like a photo, and it only has a base +food of +1 instead of +2. Those should probably be fixed. The UB's ability is kinda minor, so at the LEAST it should give food bonus from deer so you never feel like you missed out (which you would if you had a bunch of deer next to your city as Oni). I personally vote that if you keep the food bonus at only +1, then they should get +1 food on every resource that's even vaguely organic, making them care a lot more about map resources -- and where other civs get one or two cities on top of some good resources and then expand to where there's good terrain, the Oni maybe want to put more effort into taking the resource-heavy city from another civ. Also, because oni can make booze out of anything.

Good argument about the Kisihin... I'll go with that idea, then. :3

As for the Brewery, I wasn't sure how powerful the +1 Food from Hills Tiles would be, so I toned down the normal food bonus. If you think it isn't that big of an issue, then I can make it more like a normal Granary with the added on bonuses. The "care about resources" idea is an interesting one, since it could be fun... "Oh, there's Horses there? Sheep? Hmm!" If nothing else, I could spin it more as "the Brewery makes people feast more", since Suika DID like to encourage constant feasts in IaMP...

Also I personally think the Kishin's sake jug icon should be the alpha icon for the whole civ, and the kishin get some kind of demon head or mempo thing.

You're probably right. I initially tried to use the Hannya style mask as an icon, but shrinking it down that far it looked pretty bad. The sake jug, however, I just made up by hand because it was a simple shape, so it worked better as an icon. I could maybe try making a mempo icon... I'll have to play around with them more and see what looks good.

Also, the Brewery icon was from a photo that I put through some photoshop filters to make it look more like a painting -- I wanted to try and achieve something closer to the art used in Civ V than the usual anime art I use for icons. I'll try playing around with the filters some more to see if I can come up with a better effect, but I'm kind of fond of it, so I'll likely keep it largely the same.

Thanks for the feedback though! :3

 

[bouncymischa]

Just a minor update... edited the art assets, so now the civilization's icon is Suika's sake jug, while the Kishin have a kanabo for their unit icon. Also touched up the Brewery slightly so it looks less like a photo.

Changed Kishin so it should now heal units in its own tile as well, and removed the ability to construct Citadels. Also, the oddity with their names apparently isn't a bug -- the Khans do the same thing. I think it's because the code feels you need the unit type in brackets after the name when they show up in the unit window, so you know what kind of unit is, and appends the (Unit Type) bit onto the name. But then when you move the cursor over the unit, it shows the whole thing (so "Name (Unit Type)" and then adds the whole "Civilization Unit Type" bit onto that. So the Mongols end up with something like "Temujin (Khan) Mongolian Khan" when you mouse over their units. Ah well...

Brewery now has all the basic abilities of a Granary, with the bonuses for Wine, Citrus, Hills, and unit production added on.

That should be most of the changes needed... just gotta clean up some of the text still, and try to get the stuff I need for a Steam post now...

 

[Huitzil37]

I can give the dialogue a look-over if you want.

 

[bouncymischa]

I can give the dialogue a look-over if you want.

I'm actually still wading through the dialogue, unfortunately. Given that I've seen civs posted without unique dialogue, I'm guessing that there's default settings for it, so I was debating how much to actually try and finish before posting it...

 

[Huitzil37]

There's default settings for everything but the "first meeting" lines. They just sound super generic and don't fit Touhous at all!

 

[bouncymischa]

There's default settings for everything but the "first meeting" lines. They just sound super generic and don't fit Touhous at all!

Well, so far I basically got through all the dialogue that you had in the GameText file for Cirno. I figured that that might be enough to at least get by for now, but now I'm going through the Diplomacy file to set up the ResponseType and Responses for the stuff I did finish, while commenting out the ones I hadn't finished yet, but that's proving to be a headache in itself.

I've never tried doing diplomatic text before... do I need to configure the responses for the text you included in your GameText file? I'm not even sure where some of them are supposed to be in the Diplomacy file...

 

[Huitzil37]

If the civ leader isn't replacing anyone, you need to configure responses for all the text, even the stuff I had in the GameText file. If it is replacing someone, those are the kinds that I believe every leader has set by default.