Traders, Villages, Delegations/Embassies - A few ideas

[WeAreTheMaceMen]

I had a couple of mod ideas/additions that I would like to see in Civ6 somehow. While the new expansions news has me excited, it doesn’t address things I’ve long wanted to see in Civ. I wanted to post here to see what you guys think.

The first regards around traders (the physical unit) which are a good idea that hasn’t been fully utilized in my opinion. Traders and their routes are incredibly historically significant and are many times the basis of conflicts between real world powers, so I think they need to have a slightly larger impact on the game.

Trades between Civs should require a physical trade unit. This would require players to more closely guard trade routes from barbarians. Keeping those amenities coming in now depends on your ability to protect your trader from barbarians and unfriendly Civilizations. Trade proposals coming from the other side of the world in 1000 BCE become a lot riskier. Tactical moves to blockade enemies during wartime now actually can happen. Trades are no longer about pressing buttons and instantly having whales in your inventory, you actually have to go get them.

Secondly, I’ve always been frustrated by Civ’s territory mechanics. I hate when I see ridiculous cities being settled for 1 luxury resource or a large area of the map going unclaimed for ages because there’s just not enough value. Border disputes have been cropping up all throughout history, and sometimes these disputes don’t revolve around major metropolitan areas; instead, they might revolve around remote areas with a couple key resources. I was excited when I saw my first tribal village in Civ6 only to be dismayed when it poofed off the map. I would like to introduce a “villages” mechanism. TC’s "Strategic Forts" mod has given me hope for this one.

I’d like to see a unit (perhaps even a builder) have the ability to build a village. It would have to be placed at least one tile away from a city center. The idea is that you could go claim a 7 tile area with a village, even far from your city, work those tiles and claim that territory. The catch is, you would need to establish a trade route between your village and a city in order for that city to get the resource yields and luxury resources (if there are any). These yields should also be nerfed so that spamming villages to make super cities is limited somewhat. When or if your city limits ever expanded to the village, the yields would return to normal, you would no longer need a trader, and the village itself would act as a unique improvement that might increase an adjacency yield of some sort. Furthermore, a village would give defense bonuses to units (similar, but not as strong as forts), be capturable by barbarians (in which case they could generate more barbarians like encampments). When I see a string of tiny islands with a couple of fish and maybe one luxury resource, I want to put a village there, not a city. I want to see border and territory wars that don’t just revolve around winning cities.

Because both of these ideas rely heavily on trade units, I think trader limits and production cost to build trader units would have to be adjusted (perhaps completely eliminated when it comes to trading with other Civs)

Last but not least, I want to provide more functionality to Delegations and Embassies. There simply needs to be more “THIS IS SPARTA” moments in Civ. When delegations/embassies are accepted into another city or capital, it should remove the fog of war. However, Civs should have the option to expel them, execute/raid and destroy them, or even pamper them (here’s a small gift for being a good friend.) Through delegates and embassies, Civs should be able to demand tribute through their, and trade agreements should get bonuses if there are delegates or an embassy established. This would require another physical unit. Although it should be fairly inexpensive to build, it should mean something if you march all the way across the map just to be kicked down a well by Gorgo.

So those are my ideas. What do you think? Are these pipe dreams or am I onto something?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I had a couple of mod ideas/additions that I would like to see in Civ6 somehow. While the new expansions news has me excited, it doesn’t address things I’ve long wanted to see in Civ. I wanted to post here to see what you guys think.

The first regards around traders (the physical unit) which are a good idea that hasn’t been fully utilized in my opinion. Traders and their routes are incredibly historically significant and are many times the basis of conflicts between real world powers, so I think they need to have a slightly larger impact on the game.

Trades between Civs should require a physical trade unit. This would require players to more closely guard trade routes from barbarians. Keeping those amenities coming in now depends on your ability to protect your trader from barbarians and unfriendly Civilizations. Trade proposals coming from the other side of the world in 1000 BCE become a lot riskier. Tactical moves to blockade enemies during wartime now actually can happen. Trades are no longer about pressing buttons and instantly having whales in your inventory, you actually have to go get them.

The current 'Two Tier' Trade System in Civ VI, in which resources can be traded between Civs with no restrictions on length or number, while all other trade is severely restricted in length and number of routes AND subject to introduction by Barbarians or other enemies, has been one of my major personal dislikes ever since Civ V. I suspect the reasoning, though, is that lack of Strategic Resources can be a Game Killer, so they had to 'open up' possible trade in such resources to Any Civ On The Planet regardless of number of existing trade routes or distance.

I've posted before my solution, which is to do away with Tribal Villages and Barbarian Camps and simply have one type of 'less-than City-State-sized' position on the map, called a Settlement.
Settlements could be Hostile - in which case they act like the current Barbarian Camps
Settlements could be Friendly - like the current Tribal Villages, except that if/when they give you something, they don't disappear unless the entire Settlement moves into your territory as a Population Point or Builder Unit.
Settlements could be Neutral - and you have to expend Diplomatic Energy to make them Friendly, or Military Power to turn them Hostile or Gone.
Friendly Settlements would also be willing to Trade, so they would be an alternative source of Resources near that Settlement.

That should give you enough 'alternative sources' for all kinds of Special/Strategic Resources that a No Restrictions Special Trade System would no longer be required.

Secondly, I’ve always been frustrated by Civ’s territory mechanics. I hate when I see ridiculous cities being settled for 1 luxury resource or a large area of the map going unclaimed for ages because there’s just not enough value. Border disputes have been cropping up all throughout history, and sometimes these disputes don’t revolve around major metropolitan areas; instead, they might revolve around remote areas with a couple key resources. I was excited when I saw my first tribal village in Civ6 only to be dismayed when it poofed off the map. I would like to introduce a “villages” mechanism. TC’s "Strategic Forts" mod has given me hope for this one.

I’d like to see a unit (perhaps even a builder) have the ability to build a village. It would have to be placed at least one tile away from a city center. The idea is that you could go claim a 7 tile area with a village, even far from your city, work those tiles and claim that territory. The catch is, you would need to establish a trade route between your village and a city in order for that city to get the resource yields and luxury resources (if there are any). These yields should also be nerfed so that spamming villages to make super cities is limited somewhat. When or if your city limits ever expanded to the village, the yields would return to normal, you would no longer need a trader, and the village itself would act as a unique improvement that might increase an adjacency yield of some sort. Furthermore, a village would give defense bonuses to units (similar, but not as strong as forts), be capturable by barbarians (in which case they could generate more barbarians like encampments). When I see a string of tiny islands with a couple of fish and maybe one luxury resource, I want to put a village there, not a city. I want to see border and territory wars that don’t just revolve around winning cities.

Because both of these ideas rely heavily on trade units, I think trader limits and production cost to build trader units would have to be adjusted (perhaps completely eliminated when it comes to trading with other Civs)

As I read it, the Village you describe would allow a city to essentially extend its radius by using the Village as a 'satellite city'. But if the city already can access all the tiles within its radius, building a Village would only make sense after the city territory has extended beyond its workable radius. Instead, why not allow your Civ to access tiles completely outside any city area with Colonies - one tile 'Settlements' established by Builders to exploit tiles with Resources on them, or 'strategic' positions - since each of them would be a one-tile 'slice' of your own territory, on a one-tile isthmus they would allow you access to the water on both sides, for instance.
These one-tile Colonies could be 'expanded' into a city with a Settler, or incorporated as one of your Villages if a city radius expanded to incorporate their tile.
And, of course you are right: any system that does away with the artificial Civ Trade system means that the 'regular' trade system based on Trader Units will have to be expanded to take up the slack. Off the top of my head, I suggest that the current number of Trader Units available will just about have to double...

ILast but not least, I want to provide more functionality to Delegations and Embassies. There simply needs to be more “THIS IS SPARTA” moments in Civ. When delegations/embassies are accepted into another city or capital, it should remove the fog of war. However, Civs should have the option to expel them, execute/raid and destroy them, or even pamper them (here’s a small gift for being a good friend.) Through delegates and embassies, Civs should be able to demand tribute through their, and trade agreements should get bonuses if there are delegates or an embassy established. This would require another physical unit. Although it should be fairly inexpensive to build, it should mean something if you march all the way across the map just to be kicked down a well by Gorgo.

As many have pointed out in the past, after a certain point (already reached and corrected in Civ VI) the number of non-military units wandering around the map starts to get in the way pretty quickly. Rather than add another one, why not allow multiple Envoys, at a certain point, to establish an Embassy or a Delegation. Perhaps if you saved up and sent two Envoys at once to a city or capital, they establish an Embassy in that city which gives you a permanent 'residence' there, subject to bribes, able to use cash or other 'pampering' to sway their opinion of you, or be expelled themselves for their meddling. Such a residence/embassy/delegation should also give you a reduction in Fog of War in the area and possibly a form of spy activity, like being able to see what they are building in the city.

 

[WeAreTheMaceMen]

The current 'Two Tier' Trade System in Civ VI, in which resources can be traded between Civs with no restrictions on length or number, while all other trade is severely restricted in length and number of routes AND subject to introduction by Barbarians or other enemies, has been one of my major personal dislikes ever since Civ V. I suspect the reasoning, though, is that lack of Strategic Resources can be a Game Killer, so they had to 'open up' possible trade in such resources to Any Civ On The Planet regardless of number of existing trade routes or distance.

I've posted before my solution, which is to do away with Tribal Villages and Barbarian Camps and simply have one type of 'less-than City-State-sized' position on the map, called a Settlement.
Settlements could be Hostile - in which case they act like the current Barbarian Camps
Settlements could be Friendly - like the current Tribal Villages, except that if/when they give you something, they don't disappear unless the entire Settlement moves into your territory as a Population Point or Builder Unit.
Settlements could be Neutral - and you have to expend Diplomatic Energy to make them Friendly, or Military Power to turn them Hostile or Gone.
Friendly Settlements would also be willing to Trade, so they would be an alternative source of Resources near that Settlement.

That should give you enough 'alternative sources' for all kinds of Special/Strategic Resources that a No Restrictions Special Trade System would no longer be required.

I like this idea a lot. I would prefer the villages stay on the map unless razed to the ground by military force.

As I read it, the Village you describe would allow a city to essentially extend its radius by using the Village as a 'satellite city'. But if the city already can access all the tiles within its radius, building a Village would only make sense after the city territory has extended beyond its workable radius. Instead, why not allow your Civ to access tiles completely outside any city area with Colonies - one tile 'Settlements' established by Builders to exploit tiles with Resources on them, or 'strategic' positions - since each of them would be a one-tile 'slice' of your own territory, on a one-tile isthmus they would allow you access to the water on both sides, for instance.
These one-tile Colonies could be 'expanded' into a city with a Settler, or incorporated as one of your Villages if a city radius expanded to incorporate their tile.
And, of course you are right: any system that does away with the artificial Civ Trade system means that the 'regular' trade system based on Trader Units will have to be expanded to take up the slack. Off the top of my head, I suggest that the current number of Trader Units available will just about have to double...

Yes, essentially it would be a satellite city. I'm thinking of the times when you have a coastal city, but are unable to reach some outlying islands with your city radius that might be surrounded by whales or some fish. Your city might one day, in 2000AD be able to encompass that territory, but now, its just blank and throwing a city out there would be a waste. The village (or we could even make those settlements as well!) would be lower cost settler that you could roll out there. You wouldn't be able to collect the whole yield, but you would be able to collect the luxury resource and expand your territory. Perhaps oil appears and it's now worth slapping a city down where that settlement is at, okay, you would be able to upgrade it for a hefty price. Or, your city might grow to encompass that village which then would give you the full yields on those resources and perhaps an adjacency bonus as if the village was a district or something.

I see villages a way to fill in the territory gaps between your cities that occur because some areas just aren't worth plopping a city down resource-wise but naturally should fit into your empire.

The other way I see "villages" potentially being used is like colonies. Perhaps you find an uninhabited island far from your Civ that's a little sparse on resources, but you would still like to claim the land. Well, you could spawn a low-cost villager and run over there to claim it.

(Just re-read your response after typing this, I think we're on the same page)

As many have pointed out in the past, after a certain point (already reached and corrected in Civ VI) the number of non-military units wandering around the map starts to get in the way pretty quickly. Rather than add another one, why not allow multiple Envoys, at a certain point, to establish an Embassy or a Delegation. Perhaps if you saved up and sent two Envoys at once to a city or capital, they establish an Embassy in that city which gives you a permanent 'residence' there, subject to bribes, able to use cash or other 'pampering' to sway their opinion of you, or be expelled themselves for their meddling. Such a residence/embassy/delegation should also give you a reduction in Fog of War in the area and possibly a form of spy activity, like being able to see what they are building in the city.

I'm also in agreement with you here. The amount of religious units are overwhelming sometimes. Perhaps then the unit would only be for delegates, and you'd only be allowed to build as many as the number of Civs you've met. As soon as you can build embassies, you have to actively build an embassy in the capital (production cost to your capital).