Traits modding

killmeplease

Mk Z on Steam
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Hi!

I've modded the game in a way to give 'bad' traits more strength.
I would be glad if you commented this changes!

Arrgessive: + Combat I for Mounted
Charismatic: no changes
Creative: + 30% to Great Wonders production
Expansive: + 1 food on plots with at least 4 food, - cheaper workers
Financial: no changes
Imperialisitic: + 25% civic upkeep discount, - cheaper settlers, + 2x production speed of monument, stables,
Industrious: + 1 hammer on plots with at least 3 hammers, - 50% to Great Wonders production
Organized: no changes
Philosphical: no changes
Protective: + 100% to Great General points in culture borders
Spiritual: + 20% to Great Wonders production
 
It seems like you have some overlap, like Imperialistic and Organized both giving civic cost reduction, Protective and Imperialistic both boost great general points, and Spiritual and Creative both give wonder production. One of the things I liked about the original trait system was that each trait had a unique role to contribute to your gameplay, and giving similar bonuses to different traits breaks this down.

I haven't actually played a game with your traits so I can't really comment on the balance, but Aggressive strikes me as a pretty good trait right now...why does it need a boost?

I do agree with some of the changes--I gave Imperialistic double production on Monuments in my mod. :)
 
Aggressive looks good, but when you dig down, it's often regarded as one of the bottom few traits. Giving C1 to mounted units as well would certainly bring up to a top tier one.

The big problem is that everyone has different opinions, and each game itself is unique. Some games a trait like imperialist will be horrible, but if you have that "right" starting spot, having it could be life or death (getting that extra settler out early could be enough).
 
I think protective would be greatly improved if would give some boost to spy buildings (or reducing costs of the buildings), or maybe 10% spy missions reduction.
And it would be in the spirit of the trait, which I can say I have never used!
 
Aggressive looks good, but when you dig down, it's often regarded as one of the bottom few traits. Giving C1 to mounted units as well would certainly bring up to a top tier one.

The big problem is that everyone has different opinions, and each game itself is unique. Some games a trait like imperialist will be horrible, but if you have that "right" starting spot, having it could be life or death (getting that extra settler out early could be enough).

The bonus is not in the C1, but in the fact that you can get Shock, Cover, and Pinch, immediately out of the Barracks. Plus, it puts you closer to getting a swarm of units with Combat III/March...makes it about 7 XP easier.

Aggressive strikes me as a mid-tier trait. My tops are Fin, Phi, Org, and Cha, but Agg and Spi are right there in the next one.

I gave Protective double production on Security Bureaus. It helps out a little bit.
 
Aggressive isn't bad, but it just doesn't come anywhere close to what some others can do for you. I love being able to give my axemen cover right out the gate with a barracks, but I don't see it as quite mid-tier.

Protective with double production speed of jails and security bureaus would at least not make it so horrible. Or even something like opponents espionage missions are 25%/50% more expensive would also help balance it out.
 
yes the power of the aggressive trait is all in the early game. By the mid-late game a civ running theo and vassalage can have units that are almost identical to an AGR civ's units, but the early game is another matter. In that war of chariots/axes/swords the AGR trait gives you an incredible advantage, it allows you to create shock, cover, medic, or combat 2 units. And think about it, which war is the most important war? Your first one.
 
It's possible to give Protective higher EP output (certain amount of EPs per city or %) but for rival missions cost increase code editing is needed. Double speed for Jails production sounds good, with such a bonus and cheap castles Pro will be a key trait for espionage economy.

As for aggressive, in its current form this trait forces player to prefer meelee units in attacking stacks (in my games they consist of meelee CR3 OR mounted Flanking2+C1 units for the most) and mongol leaders traits have no synergy with their UU.
 
For expansive in my mod I made it so settlers and workers don't halt growth and you still get a hammer bonus for a food surplus.

As others said, there is a lot of overlap. Spiritual with 20% wonder production AND no anarchy? Beats having Industrious till Christo Rendetor.

I've never found creative underpowered, just keep it the way it is.
 
For expansive in my mod I made it so settlers and workers don't halt growth and you still get a hammer bonus for a food surplus.
How did you make it? Did you use python script or SDK?

About Spiritual.. maybe I do not know how to maximize benifits from this trait. I thought it needs some boost.
 
How did you make it? Did you use python script or SDK?

About Spiritual.. maybe I do not know how to maximize benifits from this trait. I thought it needs some boost.

My mod = I told my friend what I wanted in my mod and he did it. :blush:

Spiritual is powerful enough, especially for a SE. Every 5 turns you should expect to change civics. Maybe use Slavery and Theocracy for getting your units out. Then you would switch back to Pacifism and Caste System and get your specialists back on track. Not switching your civics often is just like not building any cottages as financial.
 
Spiritual is an extremely powerful trait; the ability to change civics and convert religions on a dime, with no penalty whatsoever, is absolutely huge. As already pointed out, its uses in warmongering should be obvious; mass civics switch into war mode, then right back out again when you're done building your army. Zero downtime, where a non-Spiritual civ trying to do the same would face a total of 4-6+ lost turns.

It's also extremely useful for diplomacy, especially as you start to climb the ladder towards the higher levels. Every positive relationship point you can get is valuable, and the ability to placate a civics or religion change demand with essentially no penalty is a great tool. Give in to their demand, earn a +1 relations modifier, and 5 turns later switch back, once again with no lost turns.

The half-price Temples are nice too, and sometimes overlooked; speed your ramp-up to a quick cultural victory, or pound out some temples in the early game to combat unhappiness size limits. Spiritual is already, in my opinion, one of the most powerful traits in the game and needs no buffing whatsoever. You just have to tailor your playstyle to take advantage of it, as opposed to a trait like Financial that you can leverage in your sleep.
 
Spiritual is a trait where if you don't use it, it's horrible, but used properly, it can help a lot. How many games with non-spiritual leaders have you done the math in your head, "hmm, would I rather be in organized religion or Theocracy now? Well, I'm building a few units, so I wouldn't mind getting them those extra promotions. But I'm also building a lot of buildings in new cities, and I wouldn't mind them being helped out as well..."

Or for me, the more common one. I gear up for war, so obviously I switch to theocracy, for instance. Then I get a new tech that unlocks a wonder, or I'll get something like education and want to take a 5-10 turn break from building units to get universities up in my cities. With being spiritual, I don't think twice about switching. Otherwise, I'd really ponder hard how much I actually need the switch. Usually I wouldn't bother.
 
Aggressive isn't bad, but it just doesn't come anywhere close to what some others can do for you. I love being able to give my axemen cover right out the gate with a barracks, but I don't see it as quite mid-tier.

Protective with double production speed of jails and security bureaus would at least not make it so horrible. Or even something like opponents espionage missions are 25%/50% more expensive would also help balance it out.

Why not? Every unit that survives battle is a unit you don't have to produce and another unit your enemy has to replace. And when those specialty promotions confer a +25% combat bonus, which translates into a +30% chance of victory, that's nothing to sneeze at.

yes the power of the aggressive trait is all in the early game. By the mid-late game a civ running theo and vassalage can have units that are almost identical to an AGR civ's units, but the early game is another matter. In that war of chariots/axes/swords the AGR trait gives you an incredible advantage, it allows you to create shock, cover, medic, or combat 2 units. And think about it, which war is the most important war? Your first one.

On this point of Aggressive having all its power in the early game, I firmly disagree. An Aggressive civ running Theocracy and Vassalage can dominate the mid-game, and that is the ultimate expression of utilizing your bonus to the max. Think about it this way: the "cost" to get a promotion is the number of experience points you need before you are able to select the promotion. For March (one of my favorites), you need Combats I-III and then you can select it, so its cost is 17 XP, 13 if Charismatic. For an Aggressive leader, the cost is 10 XP, 8 if Boudica. Therefore, an Aggressive leader will always have his mainline units able to access stronger abilities out the gate than a non-Aggressive leader, right up until the end of the game.

I would argue the ability loses its power when aircraft enter the arena as well as tanks--in this case, Charismatic takes over as the dominate warmonger trait because Aggressive doesn't grant bonuses to these units. Even in the Middle Ages, though, Aggressive + Barracks + Theocracy or Vassalage enables you to get Combat II/Formation pikemen out the gate from any city, which is great against the cavalry-loving AI.

Maybe I'm just bitter about losing several pikemen vs. knight battles when I was favored at 60% or higher. But I would argue that Aggressive retains its punch well into the age of gunpowder units.

However, I do agree the first wars are the most important. :)



Spiritual is given my honorable mention for not being in the top tier, and is the prime example of a trait being only as strong as how you use it. UWHabs and Alrin Kharr have it right.

I've been experimenting with Creative, giving it a +3 culture per turn instead of a +2, and then removing a double production building. I think it is just way too strong that way and am planning to switch it back.
 
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