- Food production: I agree that the effect is fun and I also agree that Elective would be a good place to add it, but on the other hand I was quite happy to see it removed from the roster entirely because it is a very all-or-nothing effect, you cannot choose to grow when building units instead if necessary. Especially for the AI that makes it troublesome, and I do not want to tie down any civic with this effect where it might not be desirable, not even Elective. Maybe a better implementation is an ability to proactively hurry from food stored in the city, but that's not really a change I want to make.
With how small European Medieval cities were compared to the earlier cities of Antiquity, I always thought that "
contributes to military production" was a really cool in-game description of that: Those cities were small because they were using their food to build their military! If the ability is removed, a second-hand effect of that is it makes Citizenship more desirable for the Medieval era. This is because Medieval European civilizations tend to run Manorialism and Vassalage, boosting the farm, so the farm is usually the go-to improvement. Couple that with all the grasslands and food resources, and your cities will easily grow fairly tall,
notwithstanding. IMO, "
contributes to military training" is a very clever and needed release valve for all that extra food to go somewhere. The only other alternatives are Despotism and Citizenship (just to quick build some specialist buildings, and then dart back to Monarchy/Vassalage), in order to whip the population or run specialists.
I put Tributaries to great effect for nearly all of the European UHVs in 1.17, minus I think Italy and Vikings. I understand the AI may have trouble with it, and maybe hurrying with stored food could have some potential, but I really hope it finds a way back into the mod, in some way.
- Individualism: The claim that the civic lost the increased improvement growth is not true, unworked improvements grow at normal rates and worked improvements grow at twice the rate as with the previous effect.
Ah, I was not aware of that, my bad. Okay, that is really neat. I think it could use better wording though. Maybe: "Improvements always upgrade, and upgrade twice as fast when worked." I'm struggling to come up with a neat and concise phrase, too.
Pagan religion effects: I don't agree with the effort to have civics reward staying without state religion, Deification is a (weak) civic for that purpose intentionally. If you want to have civic effects from religion, you should have to adopt a state religion.
With a pagan temple, at most you get +1
and +2
. With a state religion and its temple present, you get +2
and +2
, and you get a religious civic effect, and you don't have to worry about a religion spreading to your city abandoning your temple. I think adopting a state religion is still the obvious choice 99% of the time, but I agree with
@Steb: It would be more interesting if the player had a choice to make as a pagan civilization. Pick between getting a
from a pagan temple (Deification), ora priest slot ( or some other benefit) at Clergy. And then when a religion finally spreads, you the major religion's temple provides both at the same time, so its an obvious pick. As it is, Deification is the civic to pick when you're pagan, and you can just sit in that until a religion spreads.
Bureaucracy: I removed any additional effects because this civic was very strong otherwise, and it should not be good at being tall and wide at the same time.
That's a good point, you're right. For Bureaucracy, what if we dropped the
bonus, lowered the production bonus to +25%
, and moved the effect to Regulated Trade or Nationhood, and then bumped the "Cheaper buildings if present in capital" to 25%?
I think it's really important that Bureaucracy has "25% Cheaper buildings if present in the Capital". Not only to build synchronicity with Central Planning, but Public Welfare as well. If this effect can be made to apply to Public Welfare as well, with buildings being 25% cheaper to rush with
if already present in the capital, this could be the key to finally making this civic more desirable by the community. People have long lambasted Public Welfare here in the forums... I think it just needed another civic to potentially couple its effect with.
Central Planning + Isolationism: can you elaborate on the shifting of effects between these? It seems like Central Planning is the stronger one while Isolationism comes with the more severe drawback.
I wanted to move away from Central Planning being the go-to pick for a specialist economy, that +1
per specialist is really attractive. For example, Japan. Japan is arguably the most beholden to a specialist economy in the game, with minimal land tiles without a resource, and a ton of food resources. I can't remember the last time I saw Japan not go Communist, it's just too much potential for them and all their specialists. Of course, they'd still get some utility out of Central Planning in my proposed change (+1
on engineer and statesman, double engineer slots), but I think it's less obvious for them. Engineers are strong, but I think Statesmen are one of the "weaker" specialists, and not super attractive for most civilizations.
For Isolationism, giving specialists the +1
represents a sort of protectionism, helping home industry. I think it'd go great with Mercantilist/Colonialist civilizations to get some extra hammers in their colonies to help develop it (synchronizing with Bureaucracy, as well), and the extra
on farms helps civilizations grow their core, or civs like China continue their specialist game. I actually tend to think my proposed effect on Isolationism is stronger.
(representing not just 
but the broader disciplines and trades). Adding the effect to Libraries would also benefit civs that settle a lot of cities in the post-renaissance game (colonial civs, large empires, and especially post-colonial civs) since they'd get the building for free anyway.
