Triple Your Governments MOD - v5 FULLY FUNCTIONAL

[AlexitoITA]

Well... I'm running under Windows ME, but game (ver. 1.07f) crashs always when I try to make one of this wonders: Halocaust, Trade Free Agency, Das Kapital.
I think that there are some troubles in that MOD, maybe something about icons that I don't see.
Try to see you were completing one of those wonders... if crashes happend in that case, the problem is the wonders
I hope that a patch will come soon, cause I like this MOD.
Waiting to find a good sign to put in my profile, I want to say hallo all from Italy.

 

[Masterman]

I installed the mod, replacing all necessary files (version 4) and attempted to play the game as the English, starting in the correct position, but it refused to load properly. I have patched up my version also, while the saved games were saved in version 1.07f (they are still loadable after upgrading Civ3). I therefore have two questions:
1) Where can one find version 5 complete with all the files?
2) Is the mod not compatible with the up-patched Civ3? What could be the problem? Is a new version, up-patched, required?
BTW, I am using Win 98, so this is no XP-problem. Thanx for your help, since I really look forward to playing this mod

 

[lakon]

I have a problem, when I'm building Das Kapital, the game crashes in the moment it is finished.
Anyone else has this problem?

Lakon

 

[AlexitoITA]

As I wrote, game crashs everytime you try to build The Halocaust, The Trading Agency, Das Kapital and I don't know which other wonder...
It's a trouble of the MOD, now I'm sure...
ComradRED... try to do something!! Make a new version of this MOD, cause I find it very interesting...
Bye all :rocket:

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Political discussion, except that DIRECTLY related to the mod and having some usefulness toward its creation and improvment, is off topic in this forum, flaming is contrary to forum rules. This thread is temporarily locked while I clean it up some, Current pnealties have not yet been determined. All the off topic and flame posters here are, at a minimum, on a NO MERCY LIST for future episodes. Civfanatics center will not tolerate this stinking up of threads in the on topic game forums.


EDIT: I have cleaned up this thread so it can used for its purpose and within the topic of the forum. Plenty of post room now, and you can actually find the posts dealing with the subject. It would have been much (over two hours) easier just to lock or delete it. A certain someone may wish to acknowledge this effort in the site feedback or by PM to avoid being relagate to a **** list.

I will be recomend for scapegoat status and 3 day restriction, based on volume of off topic posts with additinal weight to flame content or obnoxiousness:

miltonfreidman (note to self if I ever deign to do real debate on these forums, recruit this guy for my side)
Kalirob2k2
Frosti
Edit: After staff consultations, all scapegoats here are realeased, free of penalty.

Special mercy to ComeradeRed on account of delievering a product here and who WANTED to remain within topic despite his flood of verbiage outside the forum topics....And we want him to deal with renaming the halocaust wonder to something less sensitive and more generic.

redtom is already up for restriction for threadjacking in another thread.

ON TOPIC, gentleman. You are only allowed to be fanatic about civ in the game forums here.

A reminder getlemen, response to moderator action is off topic anywhere except the site feedback forum.[/SIZE

 

[lakon]

Originally posted by AlexitoITA
As I wrote, game crashs everytime you try to build The Halocaust, The Trading Agency, Das Kapital and I don't know which other wonder...
It's a trouble of the MOD, now I'm sure...
ComradRED... try to do something!! Make a new version of this MOD, cause I find it very interesting...
Bye all :rocket:

Sorry, I did not see your thread.
I'm trying to solve the problem by editing the civclopedia.txt by adding entries for the new wonders (in the editor you can see, what they are supposed to do).
I'll let you know, if it works.

Lakon

 

[jbunnelle]

Okay, I figured out what was crashing my game and it had nothing to do with this mod (although I'm not as far into it as some of you so I don't doubt that your Wonder crashes are due to this add-on). I had to reinstall Civ and it didn't remove the old registry items. After I went in and manually edited the registry, the crashing stopped. If you have to uninstall and reinstall for whatever reason, be sure to do this.

jbunnelle

 

[lakon]

It's not that easy as I thought!
Adding the wonders to the civilclopedia.txt did not help.
The game is still crashing when building Das Kapital.
Maybe ComradeRed can fix it, because I like this mod and would love to get a Courthouse in every city (that's what Das Kapital does).

Lakon

 

[Patman]

This is more a pfff don't want to call it a reply to the 'Moderator's Comment, but suppose thats what it is, really.

Moderator Action: Despite it not approving or
glorifying the event, this is still too offensive and insensitive to
remain at Civfanatics, you must either rename or delete this
wonder from your mod, or withdraw your mod from this site

What is this Game, Civ? If not some sort of a reflection of what has been, what is, and what can be...???

If so, do we have to do 'nice nice' or create a game that is as exciting as life, and includeds both the good and the bad.....

If I'm to understand the Moderator correctly, why not remove pollution also? It offends me.

The Patman

 

[Skarekrow]

Hi.

I know I'll get a beating for this. I read through the Fascist Mod threads. I must be one really detached human being... Anyhow, read the whole thing before you decide to cane me.

The Moderator action is interesting. On the one hand, the author has a right to include The Holocaust in his/her pack. If we, as users, do not like it, we have the ability to choose NOT to download the MOD.

On the other hand, this board is generously hosted by someone, and has intrusted the moderator (assuming he isn't the host) to keep their forum in line with the principle's of their own beliefs. Perfectly understandable - it's their home and they can do what they wish in it and ask others to act any way they wish.

Okay, something to consider about the Jewish Holocaust inclusion. We should call it The Jewish Holocaust at this point - we've had over a half dozen holocausts that the powers of the world have closed their eyes to in the 20th century and I have no doubt that there will be even more arising in this century... Guess Civ3 really is a lot like life - how many of you get involved when Rome, Germay, or China are Hell bent on wiping out Persia?

What is amazing about the Jewish Holocaust is the massive scale and the organization it took. Let's face it, it's an amazing feat - inconcievable not only because it is heinous but because of the resources and planning and mind boggling execution (dang - that is NOT a pun, I just can't think of any way of stating it). Dismissing the Holocaust as a world changing event is dangerous. After all, in a very sick way - I can't stress this enough - in a very very sick way - it was brilliant. It allowed an extreme fascist government to keep its people fiercly cohesive and single minded to accomplish a goal of world domination. I'd feel ill building any type of holocaust personally. I've never used a nuclear bomb in the Civ games. I still haven't a clue what it looks like in Civ 3. Nobody used one on me.

It seems to me that the major problem isn't that it was a tragic event, but that the game chooses to call these events/creations "Wonders". Yes, it is a "wonder" that a civilization of people organize themselves specifically to brutally eradicate another one. But I don't think that's what the game creators meant. Wonders are generally associated with good things, although I have to wonder how good The Manhattan Project really was.

Personally I don't care if it is included or not. Even though I'd never use it, I would welcome it as a possible goal for a fasist, monarchy, fanatic or despotic rule that I am fighting against. I'd welcome an opporunity to make sure it doesn't happen, or even to punish those that accomplish it. It happens more often that anyone cares to admit and there are direct results. If the author chooses to include it in his pack - or a different mod - not posted on this particular website, it has to be handled properly -

I. There HAS to be a significant depletion of resources. Incredibly high amount of production. Twice the shields of your most expensive wonder. After all, it is an on-going campaign.

II. Population loss. Ethnic cleansing will remove all the ethnic people who have assimilated into your culture. There has to be some sort of simulation of the loss - all the cities lose -2 population, perhaps?

III. Unhappiness. For most civilians living in the culture that is doing the ethnic cleansing, it creates unhappiness.Usually there is a split in the civilian population about the cleansing - the unhappiness arrives primarily due to the increased taxing, the taking of private possessions to fund the cleansing, and so on. After all, the culture has basically committed themselves to a fanatical war.

IV. This part kills me - the "benefits". Well, there would definately be a some sort of better attack thingy (I don't know the technical guts of Civ) due to the fanaticism of the troops.

V. Immunity to spy activity due to heightened propaganda activity.

VI. Time. This goes with the last three. This needs to last only for a period of time after it is built. The unhappiness and troop attack should end when a player discovers a certain advance. This I can't stress enough - any type of holocaust wonder shouldn't last the entire game. Historically after a few hundred years, even if they would remain fascist I think, express some remorse or shame.

I registered specifically to respond to this post. Lately I've been thinking of The Manhattan Project's role in Civ and a lot of my thoughts on that sort of seeped into this response. Hope I gave the author, as well as any other read something to chew on.

 

[Uto3]

The holocaust idea is pretty well discussed, except the results you get out of it.

If we look at history it is pretty much the following:

- Money (the Germans took all the Jewish possessions, and overall, the Jewish were very rich (that's why they were despised))

- Solving Unhappiness (I can remember shootage of Hitler standing in a stadium screaming to all these people about killing the Jewish people and stuff. The crowd loved it)

That's about it. There was NO loss of people, as the Germans 'imported' new people from other countries. And there is no political setback (back then, only the Russians, Americans and the countries under German control were against the 3rd Reich, while the Japanese were their allies).

Only thing is, it should really cost a huge amount of shields.

 

[Skarekrow]

I was speaking of holocausts in general. In the case of Hitler's Nazi extremism, he deployed a massive scale of propaganda, and it is true that he made tried to make sure that the loss of Jewish skilled labour wouldn't hurt his empire too much. Personally, I think he underestimated how much it would hurt his rule in the long run. Remember, he failed - so we really didn't see the long term effects of the loss of Jewish lives in a extreme fascist rule. Also remember that you are using the most famous and publicized holocaust in the western world concocted by a brilliantly insane man. I think my suggestion was valid when you consider the history of most holocausts in the world. There has been well over 100 holocausts to date. Not always, but often the victims are integrated somewhat into the society that is doing the extermination. When those victims are lost, there is a documented hit to the social structure of the dominant culture. It takes several decades to reorganize themselves to fill the void of services that were once filled by the victims. This should be accounted for and timed in the game by waiting until a new discovery. Unhappiness is also documented because often the propaganda to engage blind support simply isn't there. Sure people may love their leader, and turn a blind eye to exterminating what their government and culture has labeled as "scum," but that doesn't change the fact that they get weary of their sons being called into death squads, losing their valuables to support the cause, etc. Unhappiness, doesn't neccesarily mean unhappiness or doubt the government, it means unhappines with the affairs of their own lives.

True, there are many many cases where it was pure colonialism and doesn't fit my suggested changes for a holocaust wonder in the game. The Moari in New Zealand weren't integrated into British culture, and their genocide went virtually unnoticed without any need of propaganda (though there was a cover up later...) because they were on a different continent. However, those particular indigenous holocausts are unique to colonial period.

Lots of 20th century internal holocausts like Kosovo, Rawanda, Cambodia, Turkey (Armenian Holocaust), Mexico (indigenous Holocaust during Revolution) and so on are very complicated. I hate to try and simply them, but since we have to for the sake of gameplay, I don't think it is unfair to write that my suggestions would fit the pattern of all these holocausts.

You said "(I can remember shootage of Hitler standing in a stadium screaming to all these people about killing the Jewish people and stuff. The crowd loved it)"

Watching a snippet of cheering people in a stadium isn't quite representative of what actually happened. Not everything you see on TV is true.

I've already addressed the loss of labour, but since you referenced only the Jewish Holocaust, let me counter with this; how long do you think a leader can continue to import skilled foreigners into his country from conquered territories? What are you going to do as a leader when you require skilled labour in those territories in which you took them from? If we were to apply it to Civ3, it means that you wouldn't be able to build... say a bank or a solar plant in conquered territories because you brought too many skilled labour from those areas to your homeland. Civ3 is too broad of a game to implent something like that, but I think overall, my population reduction suggestion is valid for the game.

You wrote "And there is no political setback (back then, only the Russians, Americans and the countries under German control were against the 3rd Reich, while the Japanese were their allies)."

What politcal setbacks are you talking about? I didn't suggest any. Besides, you said only "Russians, Americans, and other countries under German control"... That's quite a few Western Powers you listed there. Not exactly peanuts. Though, the United States didn't care what Hitler was doing enough to stop it until the Japanese attacked them and THEN they declared war on Japan, Germany and Italy. Same with the USSR, they didn't care until Hitler attacked them. You are right in that the world powers didn't act fast enough. That is true in most holocausts and that is why they succeed. Hitler failed not because anyone cared that he was slaughtering the Jewish people, he failed because he was too ambitious in his world domination. Hitler is a poor example to use because he wasn't simply concerned with wiping out a race of people, he wanted total domination of the planet. Also, don't forget that Africa, India and lots of Carribs fought in WWII, mostly helping the allies fight occupying Japanese forces. My great uncle fought in the Indian Army in Africa. I remember his stories well. Granted, these were all colonies, but by then colonial hold wasn't what it used to be and the colonies fought willingly. My point is that there WAS politcal ramification for Hitler. If you want to play this scenario in Civ3, you will see it reflected in later polics. If you attack someone, I guarantee they will attack back. If they have a mutal pact, you wil find yourself with two or more enemies. If you offer someone wealth, or are fighting someone that another country is dying to get their claws into, then you may find an ally. WWII and Hitler's holocaust was all political. To say that there was no "politcal setback" is ludicrous.

Okay, before anybody responds to this again, let me stress that my suggestions do not pertain SOLEY to the Holocaust that occurred in Nazi Germany, but to holocausts in general. It was part of my suggestion to the author to implement a holocaust wonder that relfects what has happened worlwide.

 

[Skarekrow]

I just read my post, when I said that there isn't often enough propaganda to maintain absolute happiness, I wasn't falling over my suggestion that Spy activity wouldn't work for the period of time in which the wonder was active. Spy activities are on the intelligence and governmental level which have far intenser internal propaganda in these situations. Short term spy immunity would seem to be a realistic benefit in the game.

 

[celtic_bhoy]

Can anyone tell me where I might find a complete list containing all the properties of the ideologies in this mod (e.g. pros/cons)?

Thanks.

 

[JBearIt]

Originally posted by Uto3
The holocaust idea is pretty well discussed, except the results you get out of it.

If we look at history it is pretty much the following:

...

That's about it. There was NO loss of people, as the Germans 'imported' new people from other countries. .

No loss of people? Besides the murder of millions of people, think of the "quality" of some of the people who successfully fled the country. Germany lost musicians, engineers, scientists (ala Albert Einstein) that couldn't just be replaced by just another body from another country. To truly reflect the consequences of the Holocaust, this should be taken into account as well by perhaps causing a decrease to the scientific and luxury production.

 

[A.H]

Damn most of you guys are truly racist and narrown minded... Fascism has the right to exist!
I love you little happy liberal racists. Liberals are the true fascists!

 

[AlexitoITA]

All people are discussing over fascism... I'm Italian, I know what fascism did, the right things and the bad one... I think that fascism is a part of the history of the last century, but the thing that I think most important for this forum is... why doesn't this mod work?
I'm waiting for some news about the Mod.
I read the threads, I found some of them very interesting... Fascism, in its totality, was a big mistake... Holocaust, racial laws... all things that were and are terrible.
However, I think that in a game that wants to be complete must have Fascism as it has Comunism and Fundamentalism.
There is not problem if someone doesn't like it... after all, this is only a game. Ad a good one, I can say.
Happy new year to you all.
:rocket:

 

[Uto3]

After reading the reply by Skarekrow (which was about the size of a novel) I think I have to defend my arguments some more.

This thing about the video footage of Hitler in this stadium and stuff was just to illustrate the reaction of the German people. It IS what really happened and even if you see it as propaganda, you can see the truth in Hitler's words.

The situation was like this in about 1930:

-If someone would lose a bag with 1 million Marks, he would be sad because he lost the BAG, not the money. The inflation was inconceivably high. Everybody was poor back then.

-The rich people were the jewelers and stuff, and they were mostly Jewish. People got jealous and this resulted in the 'Crytal Night', when all the Jewish shops got plundered.

So the Germans were upset by their 'instant poorness' and they blamed the Jewish people who were still rich and the reigning Weimar Republic (which governed Germany from 1918 till 1933 I think).

By destroying the Jewish and ending the Weimar Republic Hitler solved the major unhappiness in Germany and he continued by even making them happy by organizing the Olympic Games and creating work for almost everyone.

BUT, this is what happened in the German holocaust. The other holocausts are usually started by war weariness in the armies that are invading another country or something like that. They don't solve unhappiness, I agree with that, but in the MOD we are talking about the German\Jewish holocaust or maybe the Spanish (these 2 were the major holocausts) and they DID solve unhappiness (the Spanish invaders looted the Indian villages and sent gold and silver back home).

The 2nd thing, about politics: - America and Russia were less then nothing back then in military power. It was bad weather that stopped the Germans in Russia and some German arrogance that made D-Day work. And Japan and Italy didn't really care about the holocaust.

The 3rd thing, about the loss of 'quality' people: - Where do you think the Panzer, U-boot, these airplanes (Messerschmidt??) and stuff come from???? The Germans also tested new medicines. They had enough 'quality' labour, as the ratio wasn't upset that much.

That's about it...I hope you guys comprehend my lousy English

 

[Risbinroch]

I believe Germany lost because they were outnumbered at the D-day... They also had little oil, that's why they did go after Stalingrad. The Allies had superior resources and lots more soldiers, that is in my opinion why they won.

About the Holocaust, I kind of agree that it may not be suitable in a mod like this. But if possible for a WWII scenario. I believe there should allready be present such camps in some cities. They can never be built and when Allies invade that city, the camps are automaticly destroyed and gives a bonus to the Allies in some way. That said, I also believe as long as the German has control over these camps, they should provide some bonus aswell, perhaps: less corruption (they also sent criminals to these camps), more happiness (less crime in country), production bonus (as they used cheap slave labor).

These camps (perhaps they should be called Consentration Camps instead of Holocaust) could also be used for other civs in other scenarios. I believe the english used it (slightly differen) in the war against the Boers, were they put all Boer woman and children in such camps.

But I also believe that burning down cities is just as bad as Holocaust, In Civ you could practically kill millions this way. Thats why it is so bad that cities size 1 is automatically destroyed, I don't like this feature and don't like killing civilians... allthough this is just a game...

 

[Uto3]

About D-Day:

It is true that the German forces were outnumbered, but this was due to the fact that the Germans were too self-confident.

D-Day was a full-scale attack on Normandy. The Germans DID know about the attack, but thought it would take place at Calais. The Axis forces were very surprised about the attack in Normandy and had no mobility to get there in time, so the Allies could break through and split up. If the Germans would have put about 3 divisions extra at Normandy, they would have won the war I guess. Because then they would have enough forces left to put off the Russians.

In the end it was just arrogance.