Truespace Tutorial - Modeling 101

[utahjazz7]

Bjorn, after all of this tutorial, smartpropping should be a breeze to you, man! It's easy. All you do is position the prop how you want it, with the correct size and everything. Then you open up that little sidebar where you get props from, and click the "+" button. Then you have a friendly, textured .pp2 file.

I could be wrong, but I think creating a smart prop is primarily about the prop's relationship to its parent. When the prop is saved to the Poser library as a smart prop, it means that the parent-child relationship is saved.

For example, take a sword prop. The sword is parented to the paperdoll's right hand. If you add the sword to the library as a smart prop, the prop will be saved along with information on what object the prop is parented to and their relative location to each other: the right hand and "how the sword is held the hand."

That means, if you have another unit you're working on, and you want to use this same sword prop, you can add the sword prop to the scene and it will appear in the new paperdoll's right hand just as it was when the prop was saved to the library, regardless of how the paperdoll is posed: parented to the right hand, same location in the hand, same alignment relative to the hand.

When props are saved as "non-smart" props, then just their location in the scene is stored. When you add the prop again later, it will appear in the same spatial location but without any parenting. You'll have to position the prop manually.

Textures are saved with smart props and "non-smart" props, as far as I know.

 

[rifleman]

This is great - thanks for the responses

@Bjornlo - I converted my props in DE 5, but what do you mean by settings? The ones under 'Save As' or in general?

This is what the two props look like -


3ds


obj

@Plotinus - Yeah, I consider that 'the hard way' since grabbing all of the facets can get messy, especially in more complicated models. But there's also the problem I'm having with my .3ds prop. I converted it from the same Truespace model as I did my .obj prop, but not only are the elements (rim, boss and shield round) not shown as separate materials, when I open the Grouping Tool, I can't even select them or individual facets. Any clue what the problem might be?

@utah and odin - Thanks, worked like a charm

 

[Plotinus]

I have no idea what the problem there might be. If you've definitely got the prop selected when you open the Grouping tool it ought to work. I have to admit, though, I hate that Grouping tool. So fiddly to use and sometimes it crashes Poser.

 

[Bjornlo]

On the OBJ, the reason I asked is because OBJs store smoothing information. The rounding I see is just that. It is not there by default and must be selected. Since you did the conversion with DE, the setting must be in that.

Smoothing is generally a good thing. It works around having to use low poly models. But, it seems that you have it turned too high. If you have a newer version of Poser, I suggest you turn it very low or off since I think beginning with Poser 6 it had the ability to smooth internal.

For what little it is worth, I use DE 4 and have never seen this issue.

 

[rifleman]

Alright, I think I might have found the problem - sort of.

After looking through both DE and Poser, and their manuals, I couldn't find anything that helps. I adjusted the DE export settings but the prop always came up the same.

Then I started fumbling around Poser, and found the Element Display Style bubbles at the bottom. It was set to Smooth Shaded, and I reset it to Flat Shaded. This got rid of the extremely rounded effect that I didn't like on the shield, but it doesn't fix everything.

First off, this effect of course carries over to the entire figure. Second, rounding isn't bad, I just don't like it rounded so much. And third, it doesn't answer my questions about my 3ds props - why aren't they so rounded? and how is it possible that they appear to have no facets? - which means I can't seperate their material.

Ideally, I'd like to figure out how to use the 3ds props, or at least get the obj ones to the same quality. I like smoothing, so I'd like to figure out how keep the effect, just to a lesser degree. Has anyone else run into this?

Where's kinboat? Damn I'd like to ask him a question, or maybe a few dozen.

 

[Bjornlo]

3ds objects do not store rounding information. OBJ files do. Apply smoothing to a OBJ and save it and the smoothing is saved with it.
By facets, do you mean component parts? To be facets means something else. For example, a single pixel.

 

[rifleman]

So do you think the Truespace model might be where the smoothing was set?

I played with the display setting under DE again. It allows me to set the smoothing. It was originally set to 35 degrees. I set it to 0 and saved as an obj again with no change. Trying out the different smoothing options, it appears that my model is being shown with 180 degrees smoothing (which is the max) in Poser. But that's not how it appears in either DE or Truespace.

By facets I just meant the polygons that make up the skin.

And I had a question on Bryce 5. I haven't converted anything with it because it hasn't allowed me to export anything - the Export Object feature won't highlight. Do I need to do anything to the file in order to export?

 

[Bjornlo]

So do you think the Truespace model might be where the smoothing was set?

I played with the display setting under DE again. It allows me to set the smoothing. It was originally set to 35 degrees. I set it to 0 and saved as an obj again with no change. Trying out the different smoothing options, it appears that my model is being shown with 180 degrees smoothing (which is the max) in Poser. But that's not how it appears in either DE or Truespace.

By facets I just meant the polygons that make up the skin.

And I had a question on Bryce 5. I haven't converted anything with it because it hasn't allowed me to export anything - the Export Object feature won't highlight. Do I need to do anything to the file in order to export?

No, neither the COB nor the SCN file would store smoothing info. Try importing the model in to Bryce to see how it looks there. Just to get a 2nd point of reference.

To export with bryce follow this magical formula.
Import a mesh
do what ever you want to it (size, orient, texture, smooth, etc)
Do not boolean the mesh with Bryce primitives. In v5.0 this makes the mesh not export.
Once you are done playing with
Then select mesh
CTRL + E (or click on the little E)
This is where you apply smoothing, if you want it.
Now hit CTRL + D (the magical hidden part). This is the real export menu. Just select the format (via file extension) you want and save.
Not as eligant as DE, but just as fast.

 

[rifleman]

Ctrl D? That's only duplicating the oject for me

 

[rifleman]

No...wait...I'm a dumba$$

Ctrl D without exiting the edit screen - got it

 

[rifleman]

Alright, I tried converting things in Bryce a few ways (and it really is nice to be able to set the smoothing right there). No matter what I did, even setting the smoothing to 0 degrees, it always came up the same way.

While it is frustrating that the obj props are coming up as so extremely rounded, while the 3ds ones are just smooth (not to mention the fact that I still haven't figured out why I'm having trouble with the 3ds props), if this is just a visual thing that Poser does, I guess I can live with it.

I suppose the real test will be when I make a more detailed model and see if this rounding quirk distorts it. Hopefully not.

Thanks for all of your help Bjornlo, and if you think of anything else, I'd like to hear it.

 

[Bjornlo]

Alright, I tried converting things in Bryce a few ways (and it really is nice to be able to set the smoothing right there). No matter what I did, even setting the smoothing to 0 degrees, it always came up the same way.

While it is frustrating that the obj props are coming up as so extremely rounded, while the 3ds ones are just smooth (not to mention the fact that I still haven't figured out why I'm having trouble with the 3ds props), if this is just a visual thing that Poser does, I guess I can live with it.

I suppose the real test will be when I make a more detailed model and see if this rounding quirk distorts it. Hopefully not.

Thanks for all of your help Bjornlo, and if you think of anything else, I'd like to hear it.

In Bryce, the smoothing is not applied until and unless you click on the smooth ball. You do not have to apply any smoothing. But, since the object is being over smoothed in 1 application and not the other 3.... well logically I'd suggest you dig through the poser settings.
Also, you can import the SCN file into Bryce. select each mesh and apply a color(not material). Applying a different color to each one. Just select the mesh, click on the M key. Next while holding both the ctrl and alt key, click in the color sphere next to DIFFUSE. This bring up the color picker. Just select a different color for each obect.
Then export out the entire group of meshes as both a 3ds and a OBJ and see how these behave for you. The primary purpose is to get a color on all the parts and to create the MTL file. This should help you manage the color process within Poser, which might be doing some sort of group by color. I know I have at least 1 3d app which does this, I just can't recall which one.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

You do not set the smoothing settings to Zero.. that means you're not doing anything. Set it halfwy up the scale. The high the scale.. the larger the bulge and extreme cases of 'smoothing' gone awry.

 

[ruby_sauce]

so if I understand correctly, should I want to make a sword, shield, gun or whatever for a unit that I make in poser (a human unit), I need to either change the format (this is the same as ''extension'', by wich I mean .txt, .obj, .wav etc.), or I need to get a more recent version of truespace, wich IS able to export in formats that can be imported in poser?

 

[rifleman]

No, you have to convert the object or scene that you make with Truespace into a usable file (.obj, .3ds, etc.) by using Bryce. Check out post #28 where Bjornlo walks us through the process.

 

[ruby_sauce]

ok, this will probably sound dumb, but somehow I can't find how to look at what I am working on from a different angle. how do I do this >_<

 

[rifleman]

It's not dumb.

I assume you're talking about Truespace, since its controls are really kind of hard to understand. Look at the lower right-hand corner of the screen. You'll see what looks like a little house (If you're looking at it from the top, it'll look like a roof - from the side, a side - or if you're in perspective view, which is the default view iirc, it'll look like a regular house). Click on it and hold it down until the five options appear above it. Keep holding down the mouse and move up to the point of view you want.

I don't know if there's an easier way to do it than that.

 

[Bjornlo]

Yeah it is a little clunky the first few times you use it. But, it is very simple and fast once you get used to it. If you can get it, v4.3 is nearly identical but supports saving directly to 3ds without using the free version of Bryce to convert it. But, using Bryce has one other advantage. You can load a copy of the paper doll mesh and use that as a guide and position and scale your prop in Bryce so when you import it in to Poser your spear is fit for use by humans not titans.

 

[ruby_sauce]

sorry for the late reaction, my pc was broken for like 2 weeks

so I have never worked with bryce before... how do I export the bomb so I can use it in poser, and add colors to it? can I only add colors to it with the UVmapper if it is .obj?

and what is another way to add textures? I want to make my own units, but I have a lot to learn >_<

 

[Bjornlo]

UVMapper can only map OBJ files. Other programs can be used to UV map other formats. UVMapper "Classic" is free. These mapping programs can be used to apply complex textures to objects, but are not needed to just apply simple colors or what have you.
In Bryce or Poser, you can import an untextured object and play around with texures (jpg, bmp or similar files). You can often get the effect you want without using UVMapping.
On most of the props I have released, I have used texture regions instead of texture maps. So on a sword that 1 texture would be applied to say a handle, another seperate one to the blade and a 3rd to the details. The advantage of this is that it is easier for people who do not know how to UVMap stuff to customize the look of things. For example, you can make a single region invisible... on the sword example... want to use the fancy blade for a barbarian? Just set the ornaments to invisible.
The disadvantages of this method are that you need multiple textures for each object. If you get careless and use extremely large textures for each region, your renders will take much more memory and render much more slowly. Adding fine details is more difficult without a UVMap. For example, if you make a tire and you want to add raised white lettering to it via a bump/displacement map and some white for the actual letters... it is very hard to get this to line up without making a UVMap.

To use Bryce as a format convertor.
see post #28 above.