Try1 - The Newbies!
- Thread starter Trynthlas
- Start date
Ok, so we've got a problem. Below is my first 5 turns - read more to find out what we've just gotten ourselves into. 
Turns 1-2:
These turns were mostly troop movements to prepare for the coming war with Greece.
Gilgamesh offered us this trade, and since it was fair, I went ahead and took it:
Also, Justinian canceled our deal for trading wine for gold...apparently his war with Sitting Bull has made him broke.
Speaking of money, our great merchant arrives at Istanbul, and gets us 1350 gold. Also, he does a little spying and finds this:
A nice big stack of doom. Apparently we're not the only ones preparing for war.
Turns 3-4:
Bismarck asks us to join him in the war against Sitting Bull. I almost accept a phony war, since our friend Justinian is also fighting against Sitting Bull, but I decline since we're about to enter another major conflict.
We also finish the University of Sankore in Paris. Not really sure of what to work on next, I start working on Notre Dame; it seemed appropriate, not to mention the happiness boost will help out if we get it.
By the end of turn 4, our troops are ready:
I pull a double-anarchy, and switch to slavery and theocracy - slavery to whip any additional soldiers we might need in an emergency, and theocracy for the experience boost.
And with that, I declare war on Pericles. However, in between turns 4 and 5 I get this nasty surprise:
Apparently that big stack of doom I found in Istanbul is meant for us. I'm thinking of taking Athens as quickly as possible, brokering peace with Pericles, and fortifying there to hold off Mehmed's attack.
Turn 5:
Our first stack reaches Pharsalos, and burns it to the ground - we lose a trebuchet and two swordsmen in the assault:
The reason I stopped here is to get any further guidance on any changes we should make to the war plan since we're at war with two AIs now.
Turns 1-2:
These turns were mostly troop movements to prepare for the coming war with Greece.
Gilgamesh offered us this trade, and since it was fair, I went ahead and took it:
Spoiler :
Also, Justinian canceled our deal for trading wine for gold...apparently his war with Sitting Bull has made him broke.
Speaking of money, our great merchant arrives at Istanbul, and gets us 1350 gold. Also, he does a little spying and finds this:
Spoiler :
A nice big stack of doom. Apparently we're not the only ones preparing for war.
Turns 3-4:
Bismarck asks us to join him in the war against Sitting Bull. I almost accept a phony war, since our friend Justinian is also fighting against Sitting Bull, but I decline since we're about to enter another major conflict.
We also finish the University of Sankore in Paris. Not really sure of what to work on next, I start working on Notre Dame; it seemed appropriate, not to mention the happiness boost will help out if we get it.
By the end of turn 4, our troops are ready:
Spoiler :
I pull a double-anarchy, and switch to slavery and theocracy - slavery to whip any additional soldiers we might need in an emergency, and theocracy for the experience boost.
And with that, I declare war on Pericles. However, in between turns 4 and 5 I get this nasty surprise:
Spoiler :
Apparently that big stack of doom I found in Istanbul is meant for us. I'm thinking of taking Athens as quickly as possible, brokering peace with Pericles, and fortifying there to hold off Mehmed's attack.
Turn 5:
Our first stack reaches Pharsalos, and burns it to the ground - we lose a trebuchet and two swordsmen in the assault:
Spoiler :
The reason I stopped here is to get any further guidance on any changes we should make to the war plan since we're at war with two AIs now.
Woo! War war war war 
Well, I think we have no reason to pursue an offensive action against Mehmed - let him send his SoD at us and we'll just smash it (and get some more GGs in the process). So, let's see:
- We razed Pharsalos, good.
- Have we captured/razed Argos yet? (city close to Ligurgian) If not, we need to. I would say raze, but am almost in favor of not doing so (no partisan uprisings and the like, and gives us a throw-away buffer city if Mehmed decides to bypass our army in Athens.
- Based on that SoD Mehmed has, we need some pikes, and quick-like. Double-promote them to combat II, so we can stick formation on them for an uber anti-mounted unit unit
(obviously don't neglect maces as well, but we will need some pikes for those elephants and HA's)
So, goals:
- Do something with Argos (raze/cap)
- Capture Athens quick-like and see if Pericles will sue for peace (get what you can out of him)
- Prepare for defensive war against Mehmed's stack.
- See if we can ask (or bribe) someone (Justinian? Gilgy?) into attacking Mehmed while we play defense.
By defensive war, I mean within our cultural boundaries, so that his movement is limited, ours is boosted, and we get lots and lots of GG points. We do NOT want to huddle in a city and let him go pillaging everything - engage that stack in the field, even if it means sacrificing all our artillery units on it first in order to take it out.
edit: Also see if you can get Sitting Bull to stop trade with Mehmed (and Justinian as well, if he won't DoW against Meh). Those two guys close borders, and it's a fake-war anyway.
edit again: Oh, and on peace with Pericles - don't just go for peace if he'll capitulate. Vassalize 'im!
Well, I think we have no reason to pursue an offensive action against Mehmed - let him send his SoD at us and we'll just smash it (and get some more GGs in the process). So, let's see:- We razed Pharsalos, good.
- Have we captured/razed Argos yet? (city close to Ligurgian) If not, we need to. I would say raze, but am almost in favor of not doing so (no partisan uprisings and the like, and gives us a throw-away buffer city if Mehmed decides to bypass our army in Athens.
- Based on that SoD Mehmed has, we need some pikes, and quick-like. Double-promote them to combat II, so we can stick formation on them for an uber anti-mounted unit unit
(obviously don't neglect maces as well, but we will need some pikes for those elephants and HA's)So, goals:
- Do something with Argos (raze/cap)
- Capture Athens quick-like and see if Pericles will sue for peace (get what you can out of him)
- Prepare for defensive war against Mehmed's stack.
- See if we can ask (or bribe) someone (Justinian? Gilgy?) into attacking Mehmed while we play defense.
By defensive war, I mean within our cultural boundaries, so that his movement is limited, ours is boosted, and we get lots and lots of GG points. We do NOT want to huddle in a city and let him go pillaging everything - engage that stack in the field, even if it means sacrificing all our artillery units on it first in order to take it out.
edit: Also see if you can get Sitting Bull to stop trade with Mehmed (and Justinian as well, if he won't DoW against Meh). Those two guys close borders, and it's a fake-war anyway.
edit again: Oh, and on peace with Pericles - don't just go for peace if he'll capitulate. Vassalize 'im!
I haven't taken Argos yet, but that's the next order of business. And I will be razing that one too.
Also, I polled the other civs to see who would help us out against Mehmed. Gilgamesh won't do it, and Justinian is too busy with his war with Sitting Bull to help us. The only person who would help us is Pacal (for 770 gold), but I fear it will just be a phony war since his army seems too weak (or at least I believe so, judging from his low score).
Also, I polled the other civs to see who would help us out against Mehmed. Gilgamesh won't do it, and Justinian is too busy with his war with Sitting Bull to help us. The only person who would help us is Pacal (for 770 gold), but I fear it will just be a phony war since his army seems too weak (or at least I believe so, judging from his low score).
Ok, Pacal is worthless - too puny and too far. See if you can get Justinian and SB to close borders to Mehmed. If that works, don't bother peacing with Pericles.
If not, I have kind of reconsidered the going with peace option. We don't want Pericles to become a vassal of someone else to protect him from the big mean French no0bs. What does Pericles' power look like? Can we hold off Mehmed and still make progress against Pericles until he capitulates?
If not, I have kind of reconsidered the going with peace option. We don't want Pericles to become a vassal of someone else to protect him from the big mean French no0bs. What does Pericles' power look like? Can we hold off Mehmed and still make progress against Pericles until he capitulates?
Here's a look at the power graph and our military advisor for Pericles:
Edit: Justinian won't close his borders to Mehmed, and SB doesn't even have open borders with Mehmed. Unfortunately, even if we did get them to close borders, it wouldn't help much; Pericles and Mehmed already have open borders with each other.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Edit: Justinian won't close his borders to Mehmed, and SB doesn't even have open borders with Mehmed. Unfortunately, even if we did get them to close borders, it wouldn't help much; Pericles and Mehmed already have open borders with each other.
Ok, Pericles is wimpy - don't peace until he will vassalize to us.
On borders, it doesn't matter if Pericles has them open, Mehmed has to go through Justinian or SB's territory to get there in the first place
You can wait for the others to comment or not (your call), but my opinion is that we burn Argos, capture Athens, and train up some troops to smash Mehmed when he comes in range. If we have the troops to spare, capture (I wouldn't raze many more) another one or two of Pericles' cities until he gives in.
On borders, it doesn't matter if Pericles has them open, Mehmed has to go through Justinian or SB's territory to get there in the first place
You can wait for the others to comment or not (your call), but my opinion is that we burn Argos, capture Athens, and train up some troops to smash Mehmed when he comes in range. If we have the troops to spare, capture (I wouldn't raze many more) another one or two of Pericles' cities until he gives in.
LordKoros
Chieftain
Sound like a good plan fellas. I would also consider building a couple of naval units (triremes) in Lugarian (whip them if possible) and send them over to Mehmed's land. Two fold reason, first we may catch his troops aboard galleys and if not we can blockade and pillage his fishing boats to slow him down some. We should also get a spy over there to keep an eye on Mehmed's SoD to see where he's headed.
We really need those pikes and I would also like to see some crossbows as soon as possible to offset his maces.
We really need those pikes and I would also like to see some crossbows as soon as possible to offset his maces.
Good idea on the triremes for pillaging, and the spy to tail his troops.
I'm really not a huge fan of crossbows myself, as they're fairly weak (6
) vs 8 for a maceman, plus with dual-promotion builds we can throw in a few combat I/shock maces that will handle any melee troops we're up against.Ah, you're right about the borders, but it's Bismarck or SB he has to go through to get to Greek territory. For some reason I was thinking Mehmed had a border with Pericles .
I'm currently building a trireme in Ligurian - but mainly because a barbarian galley pillaged our seafood resource there
. Unfortunately, SB is blocking the route to Mehmed's territory by sea, and he won't open borders with us at all.
Thanks for your input - the remainder of my report will be posted later this evening.
. I'm currently building a trireme in Ligurian - but mainly because a barbarian galley pillaged our seafood resource there
. Unfortunately, SB is blocking the route to Mehmed's territory by sea, and he won't open borders with us at all.Thanks for your input - the remainder of my report will be posted later this evening.
LordKoros
Chieftain
Sitting Bull won't let us thru? What the heck is his problem? Hell then I say attack him as well! Remember you're Mitchifer the Brave and you should be able to take on three civs at a time...
Well sure, he could do that, but then you're up next, and I seem to remember you posting something about being a poor warmonger
So Mitchifer the Brave would set us up all wonderfully for victory in a 3-front war, and then LordKoros the no0b would get us completely smashed
(j/k of course, but I'm sure you were too
)LordKoros
Chieftain
Well sure, he could do that, but then you're up next, and I seem to remember you posting something about being a poor warmonger
I'm like the ostrich, I'd put my head in the sand and ask for turn skip. That would drop the ball into your lap...
Back to the discussion on crossbows vs maces. It is true that the CB's are only a str of 6 but they do get a 50% melee bonus same as the mace. However, when a maceman attacks a crossbow, the mace doesn't get that bonus anymore. Here is a couple of images to make my point. Each unit has combat 1 and shock 1 promotions.
Spoiler :
Hehe, your crossbow vs. mace in that last pic, the mace is only at 4.8 strength 
Not quite an accurate % from that one
You are correct that a mace vs. a crossbow with combat/shock is a bad deal - but as I don't see a stack of crossbows coming at us, I'm not worried on that account 
Not quite an accurate % from that one You are correct that a mace vs. a crossbow with combat/shock is a bad deal - but as I don't see a stack of crossbows coming at us, I'm not worried on that account
LordKoros
Chieftain
Hehe, your crossbow vs. mace in that last pic, the mace is only at 4.8 strength
You are correct that a mace vs. a crossbow with combat/shock is a bad deal - but as I don't see a stack of crossbows coming at us, I'm not worried on that account
That is the CORRECT odds. The mace (str = 8) has a 10% bonus for combat 1. But the attacking Crossbow with shock1 has a -75% bonus against that maceman. That results in a -65 bonus (+10 + (-75)). The combat equation for the defender is 8/(1+.65)= 4.84.
Ok, I'm about 2/3 through my turns, and I've run into one other minor problem.
I'm running out of work for my workers, and I can't just have them sit and loaf around all day. Looking at Trynthlas' city setups (on pg 11), do you mind if I chop some forests in accordance with those?
I'm running out of work for my workers, and I can't just have them sit and loaf around all day. Looking at Trynthlas' city setups (on pg 11), do you mind if I chop some forests in accordance with those?
LordKoros
Chieftain
Chop away! I thought those city guides from Trynthlas were great. Just be careful around Nidaros as someone wants to preserve those trees for later.
