TSG 131 After Action Report

[RincewindOtti]

Meh, abandoning this one and moving on to the next.
...
I had my estimate for reaching satelites around turn 200 so SSI would have been done around 250 and victory would have been right after that. Now that i see the finish dates here, i find it really unfortunate that A: i made the mistakes i made in early game B: I gave up and got to this thread. I think the SSI road might very well have a chance to be the better one. It sure should be really darn close.

What a pitty, I was actually scared about your finish as you first ~90 turns looked stronger than mine. I had slower growth in the beginning and built Petra last due to being scared to loose HG.

I doubt though that ISS (SSI?) would be good enough - there is so little time, if it really would take 50 turns. Though not sure and I'd be really curiuous...

 

[afungus amongus]

T279 (Science victory)

- UU? meh
- UA? yiss
- spying? rig elections
- map type effect? Shaka killed some CS
- difficulty effect? wonderspam
- faith effect? 3 GS; faith wonders? lol no
- Social Policies? Trad>Schol>Rat>Freedom
- techs? growth/science, duh
- academies? 6-7

GL>ToA>HG>Petra>NC. Oxford got me Astro for early Observatory, dunno how correct that was. Forgot about Red Fort/Brandenburg GS points. Avoided Science Funding to appease RA partners.

 

[Huston]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-04-03 21:20:50
Reference number: 34186
Your name: Huston
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1910AD
Turns played: 330
Base score: 1225
Final score: 1856
Time played: 7:04:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0330 AD-1910.Civ5Save

 

[Ribannah]

SCIENCE VICTORY
Turn=224
Score=1406
HOF=3195
Pop=53


- Did you use your UU?
We did not build any military except for two Triremes. However, our initial Scout upgraded to a Bowman and took out quite a few Barbarian units.

- How useful was your UA?
Pretty decisive. I'd say.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
All our spies were passively gaining influence in City States. None of the AI ever challenged us or spied in our city.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
The map helped a great deal. We got four Great Scientists and one Great Engineer from Faith, and thanks to Petra growth and production were huge. By the way, we never replaced the Petra Caravan with a Cargo Ship because it brought our best buddy Korea some science.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
We knew we could get most if not all of the wonders we wanted. Turned out to be all.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
More faith from Desert Folklore, heaps of gold from Tithe, and extra science because all friendly City States following our faith profited from Swords into Plowshares.

Beliefs
6 Desert Folklore
46 Tithe, Sword into Plowshares
75 Religious Community, Religious Unity

Faith wonders
113 Borobudur
122 Machu Picchu
138 Grand Temple
150 Notre Dame
156 Great Mosque of Djenne

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
We started with the Tradition opener and ended with the Liberty finisher.
Our ideology was Freedom. We were making over 600gpt at the end and could easily buy all the spaceship parts.

Spoiler :

5 Tradition
11 Aristocracy
18 Oligarchy
35 Legalism
58 Landed Elite
74 Monarchy
86 Patronage
93 rationalism
96 Secularism (Oracle)
105 Humanism
115 Free Thought
125 Philanthropy
134 Scholasticism
141 Commerce
146 Avant Garde
146 Civil Society
147 New Deal
153 Piety
159 Mercenary Army
166 Mercantilism
170 Creative Expression
173 Universal Suffrage
181 Liberty
186 Aesthetics (World's Fair)
187 Sovereignty
191 Citizenship
196 Representation
201 Republic
204 Exploration
204 Maritime Infrastructure
204 Meritocracy
204 Scientific Revolution
208 Space Procurements
217 Collective Rule

- What techs did you prioritize ?
The science techs, including those with wonders for Great Scientist points and with Academy boosts.

18 Writing
40 Currency (Great Library) (build order Petra, Hanging Gardens, Temple of Artemis)
65 Philosophy
87 Education
93 Astronomy (Oxford University)
112 Printing Press (proposals: World's Fair, Sciences Funding, Cultural Heritage Sites, all passed)
132 Scientific Theory
145 Radio (unlocking ideology)
150 Metallurgy (for Red Fort)
164 Plastics (1x Great Scientist)
170 Military Science (for Brandenburg Gate, also the free Great General created a Citadel on the Coal that was just out of reach)
187 Penicillin (extra growth)
197 Atomic Theory (academy boost)
204 Telecommunications (Rationalism tree) (Research Agreement boost)
213 Rocketry (3x Great Scientist)
214 Satellites

- How many academies did you build?
We had six Academies and one Holy Site.

We were able to make 10 Research Agreements (3x Korea, 3x Rome, 2x Russia, 2x Mongolia) which really helped a lot (except for the last one from Mongolia, their puny contribution was superfluous).

During the final turns everything came together quite well.

212 Ballistics (GS) | Great Engineer from faith
213 Radar | Rocketry (2x GS) | Combustion (GS)
215 CN Tower | Nuclear Fission
216 Apollo Program | Satellites
217 Great Scientist from the Liberty tree | Advanced Ballistics (GS)
220 Mobile Tactics (GS)
221 Last Great Scientist from points | Hubble Space Telescope (gives 2x GS) | RA from Russia | Particle Physics (GS), Combined Arms (GS)
222 RA from Korea gives Computers (GS towards Robotics) | Last Great Scientist from Faith
223 RA from Rome gives Robotics | Nanotechnology (GS), last Spaceship part
224 RA from Mongolia, Launch

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Wow awesome that is !

None of the AI ever challenged us or spied in our city.

Of course they did and you never noticed, the probably were stealing a tech every 10 turns or so.
And thats what kept them up and made your research agreements work maybe ?

I see 20 GS in your report.

4 from wonders
4 from faith
1 from liberty

you got 11 from GPP ? in such a short game ..

 

[Ribannah]

Just 18, actually.
Eight from points. You forgot the Great Scientist from Writing.

Great Scientists
1=18 Writing
2=89 points#1
3=103 points#2
4=120 points#3
5=120 Leaning Tower of Pisa
6=132 Porcelain Tower
7=144 points#4
8=164 points#5
9=180 points#6
10=198 points#7
11=206 faith#1
12=207 faith#2
13=208 faith#3
14=217 Liberty tree
15=221 points#8
16=221 Hubble Space Telescope
17=221 Hubble Space Telescope
18=222 faith#4

We also got 2 Great Engineers (faith and points, for CN Tower and Hubble) and one unavoidable Great Merchant (points).

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, then i guess i misinterpreted your notation of used scientists

Do you have any reasoning to prove the positive value of using a scientist to get plastics ?
And to use oxford for astronomy rather than your last, most expensive tech ?

I have been in doubt about oxford and always simply assumed that using a scientist for plastics can at best be of equal value to saving it, but probably is worse. Obviously, your finish date proves that you are probably right, just happy to learn the reasoning

 

[Ribannah]

This is OCC, so things are a bit different.

The Great Scientist that gave us Plastics bulbed for 4160s, which is already considerable for OCC, to save 6 turns. That is six turns of faster GS generation (not decisive), but also 6 turns of more current research (some 1000s), plus we are faster to Chemistry, Replaceable Parts, Brandenburg Gate (nothing else to build at that moment), Penicillin, Atomic Theory. It adds up. In non-OCC games the final GS easily bulb for twice as much as here, so you are more inclined to save them.

Oxford University so early may seem strange at first but it's all about momentum. You get four Rationalism policies many turns earlier, as well as the Observatory. Also, you can explore earlier, meet trading and research partners. The advantages keep accumulating. Most importantly perhaps, you can keep building those essential wonders, like Oracle, Colossus, Leaning Tower of Pisa, etc., because the techs arrive in time.

 

[Kendon]

Turn 339

I built two academies and should have built more. I shouldn't have bothered with the Musicians' Guild. I had too many non-Great Scientists.

On the bright side I financed both sides of a steady stream of research agreements. Even after I was denounced by Mongolia the agreement stayed in place. I should have started earlier. Too much gold, too much culture -- not bad problems to have.

Not to mention this is my first One City Challenge victory, and on Emperor no less.

 

[RincewindOtti]

SCIENCE VICTORY
Turn=224
Score=1406
HOF=3195
Pop=53

phew...now that is really a different story - congrats.

And I don't even understand how that works. I also managed something like 6 RAs but each one was only barely worth a turn of research.
My growth was a lot weaker though and also I did not deliberately try to push my neighbours.

...if it isn't too much trouble answering some more questions... =>
How did you value money usage?
Buy science buildings>RA>ally CS?
Focus on which CS first?
Disregarding e.g. current CS quests with extra influence/money?
What was your total bpt in the end/how much from CS?

 

[aliasMiya]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1872AD
Turns played: 306
Base score: 1301
Final score: 2132
Time played: 7:57:00

(Sometimes I leave the game on and go and do something else so that isn't active game play, but I'm a bit amazed by all of you who take like three hours. What's your superpower?)

- Did you use your UU?

Nope. Got one scout that upgraded to the UU, but I didn't build any and I only used the ex-scout against barbarians.

- How useful was your UA?

Good. I got an excellent tile improvement from the scientist and was ahead in tech the whole game.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?

A little by the end. I used the city-states to get a bit of science so when other civs tried to take them away, I blocked them with my spies.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?

I think it helped. I was secluded enough not to have many people try to wage war against me and had a lot of great tiles to put down my scientist! Also, sea trade routes.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

I went for a lot more wonders than I normally would, like the Great Library and Petra.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?

Yes, I had desert folklore so I got a lot of faith and in the end I could by four great scientist from it, I think.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?

Full Tradition, opening Patronage, opening Rationalism and took all but one to save the free tech for something bigger, then I got down two tick in Patronage (the city-states gives you half of their science or whatever it's called) then I took Freedom and went to the "Buy spaceship parts with gold" and then I just took some more Freedom and Patronage stuff to fill the time.

- What techs did you prioritize ?

Science ones, and especially the Hubble Space telescope-tech. I was a bit late with Astronomy and the Observatory (I was scared China would come and kick my behind after having eliminated Russia so I wanted to get a wee bit better army) so that slowed me down a little.

- How many academies did you build?

Four, I think. Or was it five? Ah, I'm tired, no more postponing sleep!

Good night everyone!

 

[Ribannah]

phew...now that is really a different story - congrats.

And I don't even understand how that works. I also managed something like 6 RAs but each one was only barely worth a turn of research.
My growth was a lot weaker though and also I did not deliberately try to push my neighbours.

...if it isn't too much trouble answering some more questions... =>
How did you value money usage?
Buy science buildings>RA>ally CS?
Focus on which CS first?
Disregarding e.g. current CS quests with extra influence/money?
What was your total bpt in the end/how much from CS?

Gold was one of the keys in this game. We did not get any spectacular quests, for instance Russia removed the barbarian camp between the faith City States and Cahokia before they even asked for it, so it was hard work. I think building the Colossus was quite essential for our result, and therefore also our choice of Religious Community. The game ended up too short for Divine Inspiration to produce a fifth Great Scientist from faith.

Therefore we focused on increasing income as a priority, although still second to production and science. In order of events:

52 Caravan from Petra
76 Cargo Ship 480g
94 Cargo Ship
99 Colossus, Cargo Ship from Colossus
106 Cargo Ship 480g
111 Cargo Ship 480g
116 Harbor 580g
119 Cargo Ship 480g
122 Machu Picchu (also for faith), Market 500g
127 Bank 780g
133 East India Company
141 Mint (only now starting to consistently work the Gold and Silver tiles)
142 Stock Exchange 1210g

After the Stock Exchange we turned our attention to allying all the City States, maritime first. Scholasticism had arrived on turn 134, and our eternal Golden Age had begun on turn 118. Of course we had a bunch of allies already (sometimes temporarily) from quests and killing Barbarian units, but alas not the maritime ones.

Allies
61 Prague (camp, Hanging Gardens)
62 Cahokia (trade route, finding China)
90 Wittenberg (culture, Judaism)
101 Geneva (Wine, cash)
102 Kuala Lumpur (camp, Barbarians)
102 Kabul (camp, returned Worker)
109 Tyre (camp, Barbarians)
109 Bogota (camp, returned Worker)
114 Vatican City (Temple of Artemis, Judaism)
120 Florence (camp, Barbarians)
138 Colombo (Judaism, science)
140 Bratislava (Judaism, Silver)

All the successive camp removals were accomplished by our initial Warrior, upgraded to Swordsman.
Spies were placed strategically to support the City States that needed it.
From here on we bought the rest.

144 Mombasa (cash)
146 Quebec City (cash)
147 Kuala Lumpur back (cash)
148 Florence back (cash)
151 Bucharest (cash)
157 Malacca (cash)
158 Budapest (camp, cash)
167 Antananarivo (Judaism, cash)

Done.

Science on the final turn is broken down as follows:

Babylon = 892.6 (of this, 64.6 from production)
Trade routes = 2
Rationalism 10% = 89.46
City States = 156.75
Total = 1140.81

We had a lot of turns producing science, starting on turn 183, which also meant that the Great Scientist and Research Agreement results kept rising.

 

[RincewindOtti]

THX for all the details

It seems your cash game is a lot stronger than mine. You rush buy a lot more stuft.
Maybe I'll try one more time.

 

[hitretz]

I tried this GOTM in hope of coming close to your finish time. I thought my edge was that with 5 flatland CS's I would be able to shave of a few turns early based on your log with rush buying granary and watermill. But playing through ~100's of turns I noticed we pop the LToP and points GS on the same turn. My wonder priority was also GL/Petra/HG/ToA. As you did not mention, I'm curious if you also abused the number of city states for early gold? If not i have to revisit my tile mirco.

PS Great finish time, thanks for the detailed analysis!

SCIENCE VICTORY
Turn=224
Score=1406
HOF=3195
Pop=53

 

[Ribannah]

No, not in this game.

My opening actions report is here.