TSG69 After Actions

[StrideColossus]

Your name: stridecolossus
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1918AD
Turns played: 338
Base score: 1522
Final score: 2271

Pretty rubbish finish time, think I got bogged down in building mode in the middle of the game instead of focussing on the victory conditions.

- How many cities did you build and how many did you decide to acquire?

Built 6 cities and aquired the Zulu capital.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

We had the dominant religion on our continent, used mainly for Mosques.
Used spies to keep CS allied.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

Took a while before anyone would be our friends, not sure why, unless it was our aggression against the Zulus.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

I wasn't sure if the AI would have enough cash for RAs so didn't really take them into account until well into the game.

- Did the Diplomacy Victory condition exclusion change how you play a science game?

Well it removed the chance of the AI sneaking a diplo win, on the other hand we had allied almost all the CS by the end of the game.

 

[pkf]

For the folks that got very fast finishes (sub t250), I am curious as to what you did with your Social Policies. I know one mistake I made was getting to Renaissance too slowly and thus having to get two Patronage SPs before being able to open up Rationalism.

I assume that you waited to enter Renaissance before completing the Oracle (which I completely forgot about in my game)? On Warlord I assume that this delay wouldn't be a problem.

Also, did you complete either the Freedom or Order ideologies in order to get the extra science and boost with the final Spaceship Part(s)? Going down to tier 3 Ideology requires 4 extra SPs (you get two free tier 1s, then you need a tier 2, another tier 1, another tier 2, and finally a tier 3). Is it better to go grab the tier 3 or to get the Patronage Scholasticism SP for the science boost from Allied City-States?

In my replay today, I managed a much better t241 VC simply by settling 2 extra cities after NC. The rest of the game was virtually unchanged. I even managed to screw up my Social Policies much like my first game, although this time it was the extra cities that me threw off how much Culture I really needed.

On a side note, for my Pantheon belief, in both games I grabbed the +2 Faith from Quarries which seemed really good. Although +15% growth when not at war is never bad. Not sure what Pantheon belief is best for a Science VC.

Finally, did you use any World Congress Resolution to help you in a significant way? Getting an early +33% to GS/GE/GM seemed very good, but it would anger the AIs and I'm not even sure you could pass it (maybe with a bribe?). I ended up choosing the World's Fair since all the buffs are pretty decent.

1) usual tradition - on warlord scout/scout > scout/monument unless you get really unlucky with huts (you will find quite a few). get culture CS asap to keep culture high for patronage/consulates. do not delay opening ratio for consulates if culture was too low to grab it. preferred use for oracle is secularism for instant science boost, if you are afraid you might miss it, use it on consulates instead.

opening ratio asap is key here.

2) all that is really needed is order: skyscrapers - 25% GP generation - workers faculties (factories). its good if you can get another lvl 2 tenet (production), but not mandatory. scholaticism is definitley too weak on lower difficulties, i would not consider it on deity either though (except OCC).

3) Religion seems ok. Stone Circles is good but not a real faith monster like DF or OWN. Hence I tend to pick passive (capital-boosting) believes when there is no good source of faith -> Religious Community and 15% Growth, Tithe is obvious, Religious Texts. I picked the 15% Growth when founding, stacks nicely with food trade routes.

4) Science Funding is best here. It should net you one or even two extra GS. The World's Fair will kick in rather late and you do not need that many policies anyways (just order and rati). Also on lower difficulties you basically need to build it all yourself, and it comes usually shortly after schools when there is much more important stuff to build. You might wanna reconsider this on higher difficulties where RAs are more important, as proposing Sciences Funding usually comes at the cost of a couple DoFs.

 

[glory7]

~t145 at the opening actions thread. Took Rome cap and 2nd city (razed) and Zulu cap and 2nd city. I have my own 4 cities + 3 annexed ones.

After that, I used my small navy (3 frigates + 2-3 nau) to attack coastal cities. My diplo relation was really bad and they had negative gpt for the most of the time anyway. When I took a crap city, I just gave it to somebody else. I got a good peace deal after 5 turns. Did it with Dutch first and moved on to iroquis. His cap was okay with unique lux + stones and coastal, and had colossus, so I kept it.

Went to attack Brazil. I didn't expect to get his cap with my army (had like 3 Xbows + 1 trebuchet from Zulu war), but I got my other old units (scout+warrior for meat sheild) with 2 CS gifted camel archers to the front and took his cap with 4 wonders including great wall. It was necessary as I could not find any aluminum and his cap had 8. In addition, it had 2 lux that I did not have.

SP: tradition full - pat open - rati open and secularism (oracle and GW) - free thoughts - gold from sci buildings - order up to factory tenet - commerce till mercantilism - rati finish.

With skyscraper, I could buy some buildings and with Big Ben and mercantilism it was even better. I had long golden age thanks to CI and 2 GArtist + Taj. Rush bought most of the sci buildings.

It was my first time going for 9 cities (4 of mine, 4 other caps, 1 Zulu 2nd city) and it was just crazy. spt soared and I did not need 2-3 GS in the end. I burned 2 GS for faster apollo start, but it seems that I should have used 1 more, or even 2 more. I finished all the tech except one or two when apollo was done. my 3 core cities produced 2 ss parts each in 7 turns (rush bought spaceship factory and nuclear factory).

I even bought 2nd GE with faith, instead of 2nd GS, and planted it. You can see XCOM and stealth bomber at cap. It's my first time with 2000+ spt and I did underestimate power of GS bulbing. each GS provided like 13-15k.

 

[Tabarnak]

Congrats glory7

I guess that more(good) cities the better at low levels. RAs aren't a big deal excepted last round but combining teching with warmongering seems more powerful like in mp.

 

[golem]

Game date: 1890AD
Turns played: 315
Base score: 1538
Final score: 2441
Time played: 3:56:00
Submitted save: Maria I_0315 AD-1890.Civ5Save

I never know how to play fast. I did three cities (Tradition), in the only war captured Antium from Rome. I had too much money, too advance in tech - but was not able to do science faster. I did four rounds of RAs, but only with three civs. I cannot make fruenship with more civs. I did not want to make wars too - so it was slow game for clear victory.

 

[Arilian]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 69
Date submitted: 2013-09-20 16:48:05
Reference number: 29736
Your name: Arilian
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1665AD
Turns played: 243
Base score: 1719
Final score: 3581
Time played: 2:53:00
Submitted save: Maria I_0243 AD-1665.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Arilian_C506901.Civ5Save



I had a dream start, but could not really profit from it.
I started with mining and worker, as I know I will have time to pick up the ruins, and because of the warlord bonus, it is not a problem if I do not find culture any ruin.

I found POP, Upgrade, Culture, with my base warriror.... (is it possible to find worker/settler in warlord? I did not find any)

I had to DOW the Zulu, as he build settler first (with no escort) -> free worker for my second city.

I used GL for Philo after all, still not sure If I should have used it a bit later.

Then I just could not stop expanding. Had 7 cities, even at the bottom of the map, for the 3 food river +8 faith hill place. Even this way I had Education around turn 100. But culture did not come as I hoped, and even after I was able use the oracle to open Rat, I had to wait a lot for the second policy.

NAU was moderately useful (building a tireme, upgrading, then scouting and selling)
Freatoria is great, but come a bit too late.

At the end I totally messed up. I was able to use up a GE for a speaceship part with the order top policy. I should have signed had more RAs, I did not renewed them at t190, as I expected it is not needed at T220. Cost me a few turns at least. Used up oxford to save 1 turn from the last tech, as I did not calculated, the GSs just used them as I felt

I had only 1600 breakers top, nowhere near 2000. Also did not have money for universities, and public schools, had to hard build most. (could buy research labs)

I think some civ players may finish sub 210 with my t100 save....

 

[stainless_steel]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 69
Date Submitted: 2013-09-21 23:37:29
Reference Number: 29741
Name: stainless_steel
Game Status: Science Victory
Game Date: 1948AD
Turns Played: 368
Base Score:1761
Final Score: 2412
Time Played: 10:11:00
Submitted Save: TSG69_MariaI_0368 AD-1948.Civ5Save
Renamed File: stainless_steel_C506901.Civ5Save

Enjoyed the game very much, my first science victory. Tried out some new strategies/techniques i.e. increasing science and trying to have certain benchmarks reached by T100 and T120.

I was able to have the NC up by T100, but Education arrived at T129. '

Had 4 cities by T100 and ended the game with 11 cities.

Averaged about 1 worker per city.

Completed Liberty, Consulates, and completed Rationalism. Took Order Ideology.

 

[tommynt]

Won this turn 207
pretty straightforward game ...

Went 3 city NC then 3 more - espcially this Petra spot rocked badass

Went very foodheavey, only fraighters with Foodtransports all game, deleted the free caravan from Petra and the early caravans for ships right away. Ships to newbuilt cities makes them grow very fast. Colosus asap for another ship.

before astro I build 6 trimeires upgarded and sent em all around world demanding tribute, dows to other civs at some point gives free cities if wanted. Captured rome with 3 Uu and a frigate once navigation was available. Iroqu gave me the captured amsterdam so I had 8 cities in end.
Had to capture a 2nd rome city and plant cita to get these alus down there.

From starting apollo to end it took only 10 or 11 turns so pretty good endgame aswell, switched at some point to prod ships and got the +2 prod from mines from order tree - like that i had 6 cities with 200 prod and 2 being able to produce 2 parts in 5-6 turns

delayed PT till the very end to get an additional scientist

what i did bad:
Didnt spread reli enough. The one city i didnt send a missionary too lost religion at some point as i just grew faster as religion pressure was.
Also went +50 faith for used guy instead pressure and like that religion didnt spread on whole continent even when all those cities been just like size 5 - seem the pressure increase is just a must have in sp

Whats was allready really anoying was that my boarder expand was slower as population grow, I had to spend like 2500 gold (or more?) just to buying tiles.
This makes me really think if not the appraoch from my Poland guide is really better also for other civs.

With culture from liberty and free amphitheaters the base culture output an therefore boarder expand is doubled from 2 to 4. maybe i try that next game.

 

[Arilian]

As you need less culture in Warlord, basically you are a Prince-Deity Poland in terms of culture. So it should work.

 

[marekb]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 69
Date submitted: 2013-09-22 18:00:24
Your name: marekb
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1892AD
Turns played: 316
Base score: 1756
Final score: 2787
Time played: 5:52:00

I was really surprised by AI a the beginning. Went for 2 city GL -> NC opening and I was beaten by AI (I think it was Pacal, but don't remember) in t42!. Shaka was expanding like crazy. DoWed him, razed one of his cities and took second. After some turns he settled at my border I DoWed him once more, razed one city and took capital. I finished with 3 my cities and 2 Zulus. Because of war with Shaka I delayed my third desert city and William built Petra before me. Later everything went smooth but I lost too much time at the beginning to finish at good time.

 

[joshua43214]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 69
Date submitted: 2013-09-22 19:28:57
Reference number: 29749
Your name: joshua43214
Game status: Domination Wrong VC
Game date: 1810AD
Turns played: 275
Base score: 1877
Final score: 3412
Time played: 4:40:00
Submitted save: Maria I_0275_GOTM_TSG69.Civ5Save
Renamed file: joshua43214_C506901.Civ5Save


I posted in the Opening actions thread my starting which I am quoting

Not used to playing on Warlord and seriously over estimated the AI...

Settled in place.
BO: scout/scout/worker/granary/GL/NC/settler/4 archers/spearman/HG/HS
Tech order: Pottery, writing, mining, calendar, masonry>mathematics, construction>civil service. I had to fiddle with the run to construction to finish the 4th archer, and grabbed BW before I finished civil service to push out a spearman. Went to Education next (rush bought all 3 universities), the picked up Machinery and entered renaissance with printing press.

I basically did OCC til the NC was up ~T65. Shaka forward settled on my to the SW in a really crappy coastal spot. I dropped my expo on the north coast west of the cap between the stone and the spices.

The timing worked out nicely and I DoW'd Shaka once CS was done. He had 2 or 3 really crappy expos settled on flats, 4 CB's and the pike made short work of him, razed all his cities and kept the cap (also crappy) as a puppet. I settled a 3rd city next to the river to the SW right on the cotton once his badly placed on was torched.

Willy and Caesar where both guarded by that time, figured I would get no trading partners and just wiped both out. Finished off Willy with the CB's, machinery came online just as I was headed to Rome. Cleared the whole continent with 4 range units and 2 pikes.

Then I researched Astronomy and went to meet the rest of the civs

After I finished Shaka, I just proceeded counter clockwise around the map and completely removed the others from my continent.

I delayed Astronomy a bit because the of the sad lack of mountains, and I was pretty sure I could wipe out the 3 AI's on my continent before the other AI's muddled their way over to meet me. I am glad I did, and it was a happy accident that I did not end up with a useless early navy since the AI's had very few coastal cities. I built 4 UU's to explore (very cool ship) and later purchased a frigate and a privateer (wasted money on a useless navy).

Once I met Egypt, I purchased a 5th x-bow and a treb and embarked the whole mess over to DoW Egypt. I left no units behind and just used CS gifted units to keep the barb spawns at bay. 5 x-bows and 2 pikes was massive overkill, since by this point 3 of them had logistics. Wiped out Egypt, Rio had the great wall and was 41 defense at that point (all the other cities where under 30 defense). So I bulbed 4 GS's to Artillery, Annexed Thebes, purchased all the barracks and 2 arty and killed off Rio and all his southern cities.

After that it was just steam roll. Took far too many turns to get around the mountains, and I was so intent on removing William I forgot I could just go take Hiawatha's capitol.

Social Policies: full tradition, consulates, commerce>mercantilism, Rationalism>secularism, Autocracy>total war and nationalism.

I did research up to bio and flight and was headed to get tanks thinking I would bulb plastics with Oxford. In the end it would have been faster to just do plastics, I never made a single plane, let alone improved any oil. Every time I started Oxford it would get interrupted when I razed another city, had to actually stop taking cities for 4 turns to build the thing.

In retrospect, I gave the AI way to much credit. Shaka was a total pansy and his cities where impossible to defend. I could have just rushed him out with archers and upgraded to CB in time for his cap. Hiawatha has muskets by the time I came for him and I took his cap with infantry.

My biggest mistake though was forgetting that this is supposed to be a SV lol.

 

[Arilian]

How can a Warlord civ build gl at T42???

It take just aroudn 20 tun to discover writing.

Maybe he was super lucky with ruins and found pottery AND writing ....

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

How can a Warlord civ build gl at T42???

It take just aroudn 20 tun to discover writing.

Maybe he was super lucky with ruins and found pottery AND writing ....

by being Egypt with marble and taking the wonder bonus as the 2nd policy or a pantheon?

otherwise getting a ruin at t9 for free writing is about all i can come up with.

 

[Arilian]

I am trying to replay it, and whatever I do I got the same T100 standing

 

[marekb]

How can a Warlord civ build gl at T42???

It take just aroudn 20 tun to discover writing.

Maybe he was super lucky with ruins and found pottery AND writing ....

I didn't check earlier and wrote wrong turn. In fact GL was built by Pacal in t46. It seems to me super early for Warlord (I didn't expected GL before t60 so I started to build it).

The Mayan built a lot of wonder in my game:
t90 Partheon
t124 Borobudur
t134 Great Wall
t135 Hagia Sophia
t149 Great Mosque.
Later Angkor Wat, Ahlambra and Himeji Castle,

I was also surprised with Shaka expansion:
t25(!) Umgungunglovu
t48 Nobamba
t57 Bulawayo

 

[tommynt]

I am trying to replay it, and whatever I do I got the same T100 standing

try to start of with scout-warrior and later another warrior to be able to demand 2 rounds of tribute from every CS - 1. round for worker 2nd round for settler. With these units u can also steal workers and do barb camp quests once tribute demend penatly weared of.

 

[caeru71]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1913AD
Turns played: 333
Base score: 2422
Final score: 3669

Thanks for the game.

 

[Arilian]

Scout cannot demand for me and have 0 military value. I demand a lot, basically I am trying what you say. I also get free workers from the Zulu, so dont have to dow any CS.

NC comes at t50-55, but education only T100.

Capturing the Zulu capital probalby a good idea, as it is near a mountain, but it is also on a hill, so investing 3-4 CB is needed.

 

[tommynt]

Scout cannot demand for me and have 0 military value

scout got like 1500 Value and thats enough to bring you top military value early on
2nd warri to keep u top and demand from CS from other direction.

remember: your units count till 8 tiles away from CS spot. so u can scout the CS and then demand with a warri far away from it. Also you can demend accross the middle sea on this map. Be rdy to move in place once penalty is close to wear off. Is it 20 or 25 turns? not 100% sure now

capturing cap is no good idea imo, way better to build freighters instead units ...
U can still kill it easy with 2 xbows later if u really want to

I got Edu like turn90 so turn 100 is still pretty OK

Get cities up FAST, some before building gl which can build lib while cap does gl, some right afetr NC.

with getting maya worker it will hradly build gl ...

 

[IronfighterXXX]

I really hoped for sub 250T victory. Unfortunately I made a few mistakes. I took scholasticism which was completely useless (gave me about 50 science - I had allied all CSs).Probably I should invested more polices in freedom and took space procurements to buy spaceship parts for gold. And probably even better would be took order instead of freedom (am I right? ). Also looking at tommynt's screenshot I know I did something wrong (he had more population 50 turns earlier). I should probably build one coastal city more (cargo ship with food) Well maybe next time