[Tuning] Military Units (Ancient/Classical/Medieval)

[Txurce]

My thoughts:

Moving Composite Bows to Mathmatics would mean the jump to Crossbows would likely feel equally as long as the current gap. It might make more sense to give archers 2-3 RCS at Ironworking. (Iron arrows promotion, Which they lose on upgrading.)

That's interesting, but probably too complicated. I also think bowmen aren't too weak at the advent of crossbows -- just weak enough to be ready for innovation.

I mean, Triremes currently already rip apart Dromans in my experience (especially with flanking). Reducing the Droman's cs by 1 wouldn't be a huge difference, but I'm not sure it's needed.

You're probably right. My point may apply better in general to melee vessels. On the other hand, given the AI's preference for melee ships, maybe it's better for the human to have recourse to strong range ships.

I think Chariots are a little weak by design (you need 2 starting techs to start building them and they're both situational and not as strong as the horseman or even spearman really.) I'm not sure they NEED to be buffed, but if so I think an extra movement would be right. (They currently have 3, right?)

I think I'd just leave them alone. They weren't as fast as horses.

 

[Meticulous]

The thing about Triremes is they're limited to the coast, so they're often only effective 1 at a time across narrow coastal strips and particularly limited in setting up flanks, in addition to the general problems of melee ships.

How would giving melee ships the ability to move after attacking effect the game overall?

 

[CrazyG]

If Melee ships could move after attacking they potentially become quite strong against cities, since they can potentially hit and run if they have movement buffs (lots are available). Especially the Quinquereme, which comes into play before mathematics and is already capable of rushing down cities. I think the trireme does its job, its just a small job. Maybe it could be moved to fishing, though this does impede on Carthage's UU.

 

[Stalker0]

How would giving melee ships the ability to move after attacking effect the game overall?

Its been tried a few times in the mod, and the consensus is it made them very OP. Move after attack is just a very very strong ability, especially with open waters giving you maximum using use of your movement.

 

[Txurce]

Its been tried a few times in the mod, and the consensus is it made them very OP. Move after attack is just a very very strong ability, especially with open waters giving you maximum using use of your movement.

This is key for me. With the reecent buff allowing triremes to travel even 3 or 4 tiles in deep water, their range and maneuverability has been greatly expanded.

 

[Galbias]

From playing a recent game with Quinqueremes I can confirm they're useless against walled cities and pretty mediocre even against ones without Walls, you'd need a good number of them rotating in and out and you'd also need a city to actually have a reasonable number of water tiles you can melee attack it from.

 

[Txurce]

From playing a recent game with Quinqueremes I can confirm they're useless against walled cities and pretty mediocre even against ones without Walls, you'd need a good number of them rotating in and out and you'd also need a city to actually have a reasonable number of water tiles you can melee attack it from.

Yeah, what they're good for is racking up promotions, and one-shotting barb ships and dromons.

 

[8bitBob]

They're also the best unit in the entire game for demanding tribute. Just sayin'.

 

[Owlbebach]

I wanted to renew the discussion about how bad composite bowmen are in their current state. From what i saw in this topic it seems like most of people agree that they are in a bad state now (personally i think that they are almost useless compared to skirmishers). They either are too weak or come too late. I think they should have more CS or become available earlier

 

[tu_79]

I wanted to renew the discussion about how bad composite bowmen are in their current state. From what i saw in this topic it seems like most of people agree that they are in a bad state now (personally i think that they are almost useless compared to skirmishers). They either are too weak or come too late. I think they should have more CS or become available earlier

Or get access to nice promotions early, like range. A unit shooting at range 3 certainly overcomes being weak.

 

[vyyt]

Or get access to nice promotions early, like range. A unit shooting at range 3 certainly overcomes being weak.

This seems a bit complicated and I don't think that any early game unit should have range of 3 unless it is super veteran. Also, I suppose the promo would not be lost upon upgrade to xbows? Sorry, I dislike this proposal. I find the Comp Bowman fine as it is (I actually think the archery line tends to be too strong starting with xbows or muskets) - I would not be against making it available a bit earlier though