Dawnbringer
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2016
- Messages
- 102
Here's an update. Nov 10 version.
FOUNDER BELIEFS
Apostolic Tradition: B+
(Building) +4 GA points/+4 Faith. +5 GA points from Holy Sites
(General) Gain GA when spread religion (era scale).
This has a niche for GA focused civs. And it is fine as it is. It's not for every civ.
Ceremonial Burial: A+
(Building) +5 Faith. +5 Faith from Holy Sites. Gain Faith when your own unit is killed.
(General) Gain 25 Faith/50 Culture when expending a Great Person (Era Scale).
Great for GP gameplay. A little more desirable now with tradition buffed (since last update).
Council of Elders: A
(Building) +4 Faith, +5 Food. +5 Science from Holy Sites.
(General) Gain science when spreading religion (Era Scale).
I have grown to like this more and more for my general convert all your stuff strategy.
Hero Worship: A+
(Building) +5 Faith, +15% Military Production. +5 Production from Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Faith and GA points when conquering a city (Era/City Population scale).
Best holy site. Best for warmongering civs.
Holy Law: B
(Building) +4 Faith, +6 Gold. +5 Gold to Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Faith, Science, and Gold when purchasing a policy (Era Scale).
I haven't taken this in a while. But I'll try to have a strategy revolving around this soon.
Mandate of Heaven: C
(Building) +2 Faith/Culture/Food/Science/Gold/Production. +5 Faith for Holy Sites.
(General) +15% to all yields of Holy City during a Golden Age.
I think this directly competes with Apostolic tradition and it's losing because of the lack of GA points. This isn't bad, but it's just the backup plan if someone else took apostolic tradition away from you.
Theocratic Rule: C-
(Building) +10 Faith. +5 culture for Holy Sites.
(General) WLTKD increases Faith/Culture/Gold/Science by 15%.
I think only Progress/Authority China would want this because they're the only ones who can reliably hit that WLTKD (or WLTED) for all of their cities. I personally don't use enough merchants to get WLTKD enough to justify taking this, and even then, I would probably just go Ceremonial burial anyway for culture bonuses.
Way of the Pilgrim: C
(Building) +4 Faith/+2 Culture. +4 Art/Artifact Slots. +5 Tourism for Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Tourism with religion spread (Era Scale)
I only take this as a backup if someone took ceremonial burial.
Way of Transcendence: A
(Building) +3 Faith/+5 culture. +5 Food from Holy Sites
(General) +300 to all yields when you enter a new era (Era Scale).
If you ever get a religion before classical, this is the way to go. It's way stronger than I expected when I had the chance to try it out and I snowballed really hard that game. This is mostly a Celts founder as they're the ones who can rush a religion before they hit classical reliably.
FOLLOWER BELIEFS
Asceticism: B
+1 Food per follower (max 15)
I've started taking this and it's helped a lot in my tradition games. Though it's not the greatest, it's still good enough as is.
Cathedrals: B
Faith building: +3 faith, +3 gold, Farms +1 gold/+1 prod, reduce poverty, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great art slot
Last time I gave this an F. I definitely was undervaluing it. But I think it's still not the greatest because it's still a building, which requires investment and slows you down.
Churches: A
Faith building: +4 faith, Missionaries can spread religion 3 times, reduce boredom, 50% pressure/20% resistance, great music slot
Probably the best building as it allows more mileage out of your missionaries. You usually only need to build one of these and start spamming missionaries.
Cooperation: C
+7 yields every citizen born. Scales with era.
I've tested this a few times lately, but it doesn't seem to have much of an impact.
Diligence: S
+1 Production per 2 followers (max 20)
Hands down for one of the best beliefs. Free production for all your cities. The only downside is if you spread your religion.
Inspiration: B+
+1 Culture per 2 followers (max 10)
Culture is king at the moment, but this is extremely limited still.
Mandirs: B
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 food, +10% food, reduce poverty, spies cannot assassinate GP, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great music slot
Not completely bad, seeing as how often the player gets spied on.
Mastery: A+
Specialists get +2 of their primary yield
If you're not taking this and you're tradition, you're usually losing out. It's just simply too good to ignore as tradition, getting bonus culture and production from your specialist slots.
Mosque: B-
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 science, reduce illiteracy, +20% culture during GA, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great writing slot
Mosques are only good because of their ability to boost culture. The rest are just cherries, but too bad it isn't the icing.
Orders: A
Faith building: +2 faith, +10 def/+50 hp on city, +15 exp and morale bonus for land military units, reduce crime, 25% pressure/20% resistance
Pretty good for conquest. This gives the ability to all your cities to have the morale bonus, instead of only one city, which allows for more effective armies coming from different cities. The exp bonus is hardly relevant (unless you're shaka).
Pagodas: B
Faith building: +2 to all yields for every religion that has a follower in city, great art slot
Since the change to Pagodas, it has been pretty good. However, it's a risky payoff as you will have to deal with unhappiness from religious division. (Theoretically. I haven't tested it lately since I usually overwhelm my neighbouring religions)
Scholarship: C+
+1 Science per 2 followers (max 10)
Science...isn't that important, and this is way too limited.
Stupas: F
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 GAP, +4 tourism (architecture), reduce illiteracy, 25% pressure/20% resistance
Far better options elsewhere. Doesn't even have a great work slot.
Synagogues: B-
Faith building: +2 Faith, +3 production, reduce crime, +15% science during WLTKD, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great writing slot
The 3 base production is still a good investment of faith. However, it's still a building and with how my games have gone lately, this has definitely moved down a lot.
Thrift: A+
+1 Gold per follower (max 20)
After the buff, this has been really noticeable getting that ton of income early on. It allows for a lot of investments and buying units when you have to build up the cities.
Veneration: S
+1 Faith per 2 followers (max 10)
I would argue that this is still the best snowballing follower belief. And it's not like your opponents benefit much if they actually get this. Faith isn't useful if you're not a founder. And if your neighbours are founders, I'm pretty sure they would like their own religion more.
ENHANCER BELIEFS
Clericalism: C
+1 happy per two cities following religion, +15 to resting influence for CS following religion
Not a good choice, even for diplomatic focused civs. No change, especially since pacifism grants more happiness.
Evangalism: B
Get science when spread religion to foreign city. Missionary conversion strength +25%.
Good for spreading your religion around, but there are just better options currently. This triggers war more often than not, so it's good if you like more ways to entice opponents to fight you.
Pacifism: B
Missionaries/Inquisitors cost 30% less faith. Holy City gains +1 happy per 6 followers in non-enemy foreign cities.
Decent warmongering option...but then again, I really think that there are better options still.
Resilience: F
Prophets 25% stronger, 25% less faith. Rival Inquisitors and Prophets reduce religious pressure by 75% instead of 100%.
This is terrible, unless I'm purely spamming prophets for holy sites, which I probably won't, it's just not worth it at since I don't use prophets to convert cities.
Ritual: B+ (S for India)
Religion spreads 20% farther away, and double speed to friendly city states. Pressure via trade routes doubled.
This is one of the snowballs that I underrated the last time. Even with the nerfs, it's still pretty good.
Scripture: C+
Religion spreads 30% faster (60% faster with printing press). Spies exert extra religious pressure on cities.
I can only see this being necessary against either India or Spain, otherwise...this is just overshadowed.
Sainthood: A
+1 science/culture in holy city for every 6 followers in foreign cities. 100 Faith for popping a great person (Era scale).
Really good to keep your culture and science competitive (or to get it to insane levels).
Tithes: S
+200 gold per city converted. +1 gold/faith per 6 followers in foreign cities.
Tithes still remain as my favourite enhancer, despite its nerfs. The snowball is still there (though less oppressive at this point), and the gold is always nice.
Zealotry: F
Purchase land units with faith. +25% strategic resources.
I still think it's not good enough to even be considered (though the AI always takes this first because they value the extra strategic resources so highly).
REFORMATION BELIEFS
Crusader Spirit: S
+10% CS in enemy lands, +10% CS against those with opposing religion. Receive gold and culture when you conquer cities.
+20% CS is nothing to sneeze at. However, if you've cleaned house on the religion, then +10% CS isn't worth a reformation, but that bonus culture and gold may be good enough.
Defender of the Faith: B+
+15% CS against people in your own lands, +15% CS against those of an opposing religion. +2 faith/+3 culture per defensive buildings.
This is good for a defensive turtling civ. However, being defensive is generally a bad thing, so I'm just assuming that you'll be taking this for +4 faith and +6 culture in your cities (for walls and castles). It's not bad...but there are just better choices.
Faith of the Masses: B+
Buy Opera Houses, Museums, and Broadcast towers with faith. +5 culture each.
Saves hammers, gives culture. It's actually decent overall.
Global Commandments: A-
Gain +10 Science, Gold, Culture, Faith, and GA points per turn while host of the WC. Gain 150 of those same yields when you pass a resolution. Era Scale on both bonuses.
It's good, but risky. You have to be well ahead of everyone else diplomatically for this to stick. Generally requires you to be deep in statecraft.
Jesuit Education: C
Buy Universities, Public Schools, and Research Labs with Faith. +5 science each.
Again...science isn't as good as culture in this mod, it's ok, but "ok" just isn't good enough.
Knowledge through Devotion: F
+3 faith/+1 culture for each landmark and great person improvement. GW gives +1 culture.
Planting great people when you reach this starts to get questionable. And getting faith for the planted people isn't appealing enough for me to take this over the other choices. For this to become viable, the great person improvement needs to be +3c at least for me to actually consider it over others.
One World, One Religion: S
Gain +1 votes per 8 CS, missionaries erode existing religious pressure.
I have learned that if you control the world congress, people will suffer far greater than you expect. Passing your religion is a huge advantage when you get more votes and get tourism bonus (and *gasp*, more religious pressure). Oh wait, you probably wiped out their religion anyways when your missionaries are basically mini-prophets.
Sacred Sites: C
Hotels and buildings purchased with faith give +3 tourism, Hermitage gives +10 culture/+10 tourism.
You honestly should be grabbing Faith of the Masses instead. The tourism isn't worth it unless you're have like 20+ cities spammed (byzantium specific strat).
To the Glory of God: A
Purchase any type of GP with faith. Gain +30 gold, science, culture, and faith when a Great Person is expended (ERA Scale).
While the gains were nerfed, this is still one of the better choices for GP spam play. The versatility is also pretty good when you can choose which one to use.
FOUNDER BELIEFS
Apostolic Tradition: B+
(Building) +4 GA points/+4 Faith. +5 GA points from Holy Sites
(General) Gain GA when spread religion (era scale).
This has a niche for GA focused civs. And it is fine as it is. It's not for every civ.
Ceremonial Burial: A+
(Building) +5 Faith. +5 Faith from Holy Sites. Gain Faith when your own unit is killed.
(General) Gain 25 Faith/50 Culture when expending a Great Person (Era Scale).
Great for GP gameplay. A little more desirable now with tradition buffed (since last update).
Council of Elders: A
(Building) +4 Faith, +5 Food. +5 Science from Holy Sites.
(General) Gain science when spreading religion (Era Scale).
I have grown to like this more and more for my general convert all your stuff strategy.
Hero Worship: A+
(Building) +5 Faith, +15% Military Production. +5 Production from Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Faith and GA points when conquering a city (Era/City Population scale).
Best holy site. Best for warmongering civs.
Holy Law: B
(Building) +4 Faith, +6 Gold. +5 Gold to Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Faith, Science, and Gold when purchasing a policy (Era Scale).
I haven't taken this in a while. But I'll try to have a strategy revolving around this soon.
Mandate of Heaven: C
(Building) +2 Faith/Culture/Food/Science/Gold/Production. +5 Faith for Holy Sites.
(General) +15% to all yields of Holy City during a Golden Age.
I think this directly competes with Apostolic tradition and it's losing because of the lack of GA points. This isn't bad, but it's just the backup plan if someone else took apostolic tradition away from you.
Theocratic Rule: C-
(Building) +10 Faith. +5 culture for Holy Sites.
(General) WLTKD increases Faith/Culture/Gold/Science by 15%.
I think only Progress/Authority China would want this because they're the only ones who can reliably hit that WLTKD (or WLTED) for all of their cities. I personally don't use enough merchants to get WLTKD enough to justify taking this, and even then, I would probably just go Ceremonial burial anyway for culture bonuses.
Way of the Pilgrim: C
(Building) +4 Faith/+2 Culture. +4 Art/Artifact Slots. +5 Tourism for Holy Sites.
(General) Gain Tourism with religion spread (Era Scale)
I only take this as a backup if someone took ceremonial burial.
Way of Transcendence: A
(Building) +3 Faith/+5 culture. +5 Food from Holy Sites
(General) +300 to all yields when you enter a new era (Era Scale).
If you ever get a religion before classical, this is the way to go. It's way stronger than I expected when I had the chance to try it out and I snowballed really hard that game. This is mostly a Celts founder as they're the ones who can rush a religion before they hit classical reliably.
FOLLOWER BELIEFS
Asceticism: B
+1 Food per follower (max 15)
I've started taking this and it's helped a lot in my tradition games. Though it's not the greatest, it's still good enough as is.
Cathedrals: B
Faith building: +3 faith, +3 gold, Farms +1 gold/+1 prod, reduce poverty, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great art slot
Last time I gave this an F. I definitely was undervaluing it. But I think it's still not the greatest because it's still a building, which requires investment and slows you down.
Churches: A
Faith building: +4 faith, Missionaries can spread religion 3 times, reduce boredom, 50% pressure/20% resistance, great music slot
Probably the best building as it allows more mileage out of your missionaries. You usually only need to build one of these and start spamming missionaries.
Cooperation: C
+7 yields every citizen born. Scales with era.
I've tested this a few times lately, but it doesn't seem to have much of an impact.
Diligence: S
+1 Production per 2 followers (max 20)
Hands down for one of the best beliefs. Free production for all your cities. The only downside is if you spread your religion.
Inspiration: B+
+1 Culture per 2 followers (max 10)
Culture is king at the moment, but this is extremely limited still.
Mandirs: B
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 food, +10% food, reduce poverty, spies cannot assassinate GP, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great music slot
Not completely bad, seeing as how often the player gets spied on.
Mastery: A+
Specialists get +2 of their primary yield
If you're not taking this and you're tradition, you're usually losing out. It's just simply too good to ignore as tradition, getting bonus culture and production from your specialist slots.
Mosque: B-
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 science, reduce illiteracy, +20% culture during GA, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great writing slot
Mosques are only good because of their ability to boost culture. The rest are just cherries, but too bad it isn't the icing.
Orders: A
Faith building: +2 faith, +10 def/+50 hp on city, +15 exp and morale bonus for land military units, reduce crime, 25% pressure/20% resistance
Pretty good for conquest. This gives the ability to all your cities to have the morale bonus, instead of only one city, which allows for more effective armies coming from different cities. The exp bonus is hardly relevant (unless you're shaka).
Pagodas: B
Faith building: +2 to all yields for every religion that has a follower in city, great art slot
Since the change to Pagodas, it has been pretty good. However, it's a risky payoff as you will have to deal with unhappiness from religious division. (Theoretically. I haven't tested it lately since I usually overwhelm my neighbouring religions)
Scholarship: C+
+1 Science per 2 followers (max 10)
Science...isn't that important, and this is way too limited.
Stupas: F
Faith building: +3 faith, +2 GAP, +4 tourism (architecture), reduce illiteracy, 25% pressure/20% resistance
Far better options elsewhere. Doesn't even have a great work slot.
Synagogues: B-
Faith building: +2 Faith, +3 production, reduce crime, +15% science during WLTKD, 25% pressure/20% resistance, great writing slot
The 3 base production is still a good investment of faith. However, it's still a building and with how my games have gone lately, this has definitely moved down a lot.
Thrift: A+
+1 Gold per follower (max 20)
After the buff, this has been really noticeable getting that ton of income early on. It allows for a lot of investments and buying units when you have to build up the cities.
Veneration: S
+1 Faith per 2 followers (max 10)
I would argue that this is still the best snowballing follower belief. And it's not like your opponents benefit much if they actually get this. Faith isn't useful if you're not a founder. And if your neighbours are founders, I'm pretty sure they would like their own religion more.
ENHANCER BELIEFS
Clericalism: C
+1 happy per two cities following religion, +15 to resting influence for CS following religion
Not a good choice, even for diplomatic focused civs. No change, especially since pacifism grants more happiness.
Evangalism: B
Get science when spread religion to foreign city. Missionary conversion strength +25%.
Good for spreading your religion around, but there are just better options currently. This triggers war more often than not, so it's good if you like more ways to entice opponents to fight you.
Pacifism: B
Missionaries/Inquisitors cost 30% less faith. Holy City gains +1 happy per 6 followers in non-enemy foreign cities.
Decent warmongering option...but then again, I really think that there are better options still.
Resilience: F
Prophets 25% stronger, 25% less faith. Rival Inquisitors and Prophets reduce religious pressure by 75% instead of 100%.
This is terrible, unless I'm purely spamming prophets for holy sites, which I probably won't, it's just not worth it at since I don't use prophets to convert cities.
Ritual: B+ (S for India)
Religion spreads 20% farther away, and double speed to friendly city states. Pressure via trade routes doubled.
This is one of the snowballs that I underrated the last time. Even with the nerfs, it's still pretty good.
Scripture: C+
Religion spreads 30% faster (60% faster with printing press). Spies exert extra religious pressure on cities.
I can only see this being necessary against either India or Spain, otherwise...this is just overshadowed.
Sainthood: A
+1 science/culture in holy city for every 6 followers in foreign cities. 100 Faith for popping a great person (Era scale).
Really good to keep your culture and science competitive (or to get it to insane levels).
Tithes: S
+200 gold per city converted. +1 gold/faith per 6 followers in foreign cities.
Tithes still remain as my favourite enhancer, despite its nerfs. The snowball is still there (though less oppressive at this point), and the gold is always nice.
Zealotry: F
Purchase land units with faith. +25% strategic resources.
I still think it's not good enough to even be considered (though the AI always takes this first because they value the extra strategic resources so highly).
REFORMATION BELIEFS
Crusader Spirit: S
+10% CS in enemy lands, +10% CS against those with opposing religion. Receive gold and culture when you conquer cities.
+20% CS is nothing to sneeze at. However, if you've cleaned house on the religion, then +10% CS isn't worth a reformation, but that bonus culture and gold may be good enough.
Defender of the Faith: B+
+15% CS against people in your own lands, +15% CS against those of an opposing religion. +2 faith/+3 culture per defensive buildings.
This is good for a defensive turtling civ. However, being defensive is generally a bad thing, so I'm just assuming that you'll be taking this for +4 faith and +6 culture in your cities (for walls and castles). It's not bad...but there are just better choices.
Faith of the Masses: B+
Buy Opera Houses, Museums, and Broadcast towers with faith. +5 culture each.
Saves hammers, gives culture. It's actually decent overall.
Global Commandments: A-
Gain +10 Science, Gold, Culture, Faith, and GA points per turn while host of the WC. Gain 150 of those same yields when you pass a resolution. Era Scale on both bonuses.
It's good, but risky. You have to be well ahead of everyone else diplomatically for this to stick. Generally requires you to be deep in statecraft.
Jesuit Education: C
Buy Universities, Public Schools, and Research Labs with Faith. +5 science each.
Again...science isn't as good as culture in this mod, it's ok, but "ok" just isn't good enough.
Knowledge through Devotion: F
+3 faith/+1 culture for each landmark and great person improvement. GW gives +1 culture.
Planting great people when you reach this starts to get questionable. And getting faith for the planted people isn't appealing enough for me to take this over the other choices. For this to become viable, the great person improvement needs to be +3c at least for me to actually consider it over others.
One World, One Religion: S
Gain +1 votes per 8 CS, missionaries erode existing religious pressure.
I have learned that if you control the world congress, people will suffer far greater than you expect. Passing your religion is a huge advantage when you get more votes and get tourism bonus (and *gasp*, more religious pressure). Oh wait, you probably wiped out their religion anyways when your missionaries are basically mini-prophets.
Sacred Sites: C
Hotels and buildings purchased with faith give +3 tourism, Hermitage gives +10 culture/+10 tourism.
You honestly should be grabbing Faith of the Masses instead. The tourism isn't worth it unless you're have like 20+ cities spammed (byzantium specific strat).
To the Glory of God: A
Purchase any type of GP with faith. Gain +30 gold, science, culture, and faith when a Great Person is expended (ERA Scale).
While the gains were nerfed, this is still one of the better choices for GP spam play. The versatility is also pretty good when you can choose which one to use.